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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    It's called lazy innovation...or bad design
    I don't think that's it the engineering quality is much higher today it hasn't gone down.

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  2. #52
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    well if you (the consumer) keep loving it...they will just keep moving in that direction. There is no reason for a car to gain that kind of weight in a few years. But it will if the manufacturer just keeps using the same old design while giving you (the consumer) "new features/options". If some of the cars were actually REDESIGNED they could keep the weight down...but that won't happen because they can get away with what they are doing. When the Camaro gained 500+ lbs nobody cared...while they reused the LS3 (lmao) and gave you less interior

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    well if you (the consumer) keep loving it...they will just keep moving in that direction. There is no reason for a car to gain that kind of weight in a few years. But it will if the manufacturer just keeps using the same old design while giving you (the consumer) "new features/options". If some of the cars were actually REDESIGNED they could keep the weight down...but that won't happen because they can get away with what they are doing.
    There are lots of reasons for the cars to gain weight. As I stated, safety regulations not to mention all the newer luxuries like 1239479327 way adjustable electric seats, heated seats, huge nav units, sound systems, etc.

    They aren't making them heavy because they are lazy come on.

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  4. #54
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    Hey you see it one way I see it another...they still make cars that can weigh in under 3k (as in 2013). It just so happens a majority of them tip over 3600lbs...

    BTW a cars safety can be NEGATIVELY impacted by the more weight it's carrying

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    Hey you see it one way I see it another...they still make cars that can weigh in under 3k (as in 2013). It just so happens a majority of them tip over 3600lbs...

    BTW a cars safety can be NEGATIVELY impacted by the more weight it's carrying
    Sure but I think the majority of cars these days are much safer.

    If one wants lighter cars some do exist. Or just get a Lotus Elise.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    3000+ needs a diet imo...
    So what are you driving exactly... I'm not aware of what you ride currently. Pics, weight, mods?
    We stay swingin...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    yeah I really can't say the trend of newer cars has me excited...(Cars like the FRS leave hope though)
    Car's like that have no power, with a light small engine put a V6 or V8 and it would tip the scale around 3000 pounds. This wouldn't make it that much lighter than a C6 Z06.

    What car do you drive that's light weight I am curious to know your set up.
    I just don't see how you can call a sports car that's 3000-3300 pounds a pig

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
    Car's like that have no power, with a light small engine put a V6 or V8 and it would tip the scale around 3000 pounds. This wouldn't make it that much lighter than a C6 Z06.

    What car do you drive that's light weight I am curious to know your set up.
    I just don't see how you can call a sports car that's 3000-3300 pounds a pig
    My FRS is a ton of fun. But fast it is not LOL and its about 2900lbs with me in it.
    We stay swingin...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    My FRS is a ton of fun. But fast it is not LOL and its about 2900lbs with me in it.
    they got the stock motors at 500 whp already...11.2@127 with 440 whp.... There's ways to make power without a v8 lol. Imagine an FRS with like 525-550 whp; land missile without needing 800 whp

    http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16680

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
    Car's like that have no power, with a light small engine put a V6 or V8 and it would tip the scale around 3000 pounds. This wouldn't make it that much lighter than a C6 Z06.

    What car do you drive that's light weight I am curious to know your set up.
    I just don't see how you can call a sports car that's 3000-3300 pounds a pig
    Don't let my opinion bother you...it's just an opinion. Sports cars should be nimble...not boaty (just my opinion). I thought you said it was 3300 lbs? Now it's 3000 lbs? that's a big difference

    You ever seen what removing weight does for a cars handling braking AND acceleration? How could anyone want MORE weight? Heavier the car; the less return on the power you make. Now your 100 whp increase looks like a 50 whp increase on the lighter car. Weight is just a bad deal with exponentially bad consequences in EVERY area of performance
    Last edited by lvlemphiz; 01-12-2013 at 07:30 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    they got the stock motors at 500 whp already...11.2@127 with 440 whp.... There's ways to make power without a v8 lol. Imagine an FRS with like 525-550 whp; land missile without needing 800 whp

    http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16680



    Don't let my opinion bother you...it's just an opinion. Sports cars should be nimble...not boaty (just my opinion). I thought you said it was 3300 lbs? Now it's 3000 lbs? that's a big difference

    You ever seen what removing weight does for a cars handling braking AND acceleration? How could anyone want MORE weight? Heavier the car; the less return on the power you make. Now your 100 whp increase looks like a 50 whp increase on the lighter car. Weight is just a bad deal with exponentially bad consequences in EVERY area of performance
    Wow you believe that huh...

    Listen the FRS is a great lil car, good handling and fun. Thats why I jumped into last Nov however its has a nasty tq dip between 3-4000rpm its designed in that way on purpose. No amount of tuning seems to eliminate that... Beyond that this car with over 300whp is useless. You've added a bunch of boost to get 440-500whp, that means lag on a motor with nasty tq dips. So while its lagging and finding tq most other cars will be running away. That chassis cant handle 500whp safely so now you have coilovers, chassis braces, bigger brakes, bigger wheels/tires, clutches and LSD. That lil $25 car is now nearly $40K with mods and thats a conservative number. Or I can go jump into my 99 FRC with a built motor, SC, meth, cam and go faster for the same money.

    I guess my 3200lb Vette is boaty as you call it... It was making 600whp prior to the built motor which should be installed in another week or two. You said you rock a SRT Neon I could argue all day that a FWD car that runs 11's like yours does handles horribly. Steering with the same wheels you push power thru sucks... I've built more than a few FWD monster including a near 500whp VR6 GTI back in 98 no traction and couldnt turn agressively on twisty roads to save its life. I had a Caliber SRT4, tq steering monster. HATED IT... From a roll it was fun but from down low or on off ramps it blows. So I bet the Neon is light but I know it doesnt handle well and tq steers to no end, not to mention you have serious traction issues despite the lightweight.

    I gone the lightweight route by doing rear seat deletes, racing seats, carbon fiber hoods/trunks, coilovers, removing AC and so on. Sure its lighter and its less comfortable to boot. I'll keep my boat with the FRC and enjoy my AC, leather, cruise control and monster power/brakes/handling. We have a diverse mix of very fast cars from Bimmers to Vette's to Z's to V's to EVO's. Take a look around I think you'll find fast comes in many shapes and forms around here.

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  11. #61
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    lol 500 whp and you need chassis bracing, bigger brakes, lsd and coilovers? Most cars can run 10's on factory suspension lol. I had a Honda in the 11's on factory springs, brakes and shocks from 1998 with an open differential lol

    So tell me what about the mechanics of that boxer engine FORCES a torque dip? Are you referring to a tuning obstacle? Cause that's not mechanical...

    Don't know why you've gone tangent on my car...(it's pretty much the reason I DIDN'T mention it publicly) . But I never once thought or claimed to have some ultimate sports car (or a sports car to begin with lol). I told you I daily a Neon (verbatim)

    You guys act like I called your wife fat...I said I don't have a tolerance for heavier cars (3000+); it wasn't made to be personal or ruffle feathers (it wasn't even the main point of what I said earlier; I asked about the stock potential of the 370z motor)

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
    Stock motor's can hold 500-525 WHP with a good tune some people do push them a little more.

    I am curious how come you call a 3300 pound car a tank ?
    I've read otherwise. The VHR bottom-end is a bit more stout than the HR was. I've seen quite a few hitting 600whp reliably. They all seem to be GTM turbo kits though lol; it's as if no one else makes one.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    Hey you see it one way I see it another...they still make cars that can weigh in under 3k (as in 2013). It just so happens a majority of them tip over 3600lbs...

    BTW a cars safety can be NEGATIVELY impacted by the more weight it's carrying
    Cars are heavier these days for 3 reasons:
    1) Safety regulations are FAR more strict and tough than they were even just 15 years ago. Crumple zones, reinforcement, chassis stiffening due to the increased weight, etc are all factors derived from this.
    2) Aluminum is HELLA more expensive than it used to be. The price of it has skyrocketed. This means the cost to have a car with an aluminum chassis or body is substantially higher than it used to be. It's generally easier just to increase the horsepower and compensate in other areas.
    3) All other drivetrain parts increase in weight (brake sizes too) to compensate for the increased heft; which increases it even more.

    This is not because car manufacturers are lazy, it's because they are companies that have to turn a profit. And if they really made cars light as they were 15 years ago, we'd be paying a lot more for the cars than we used to.

    That being said, the FRS isn't exactly a lightweight. It is a VERY small car by today's standards (it's the size of a Miata). 2900lbs isn't all that much lighter than 3200lbs (370z weight). Setting a weight value of 3000lbs to mean 'heavy' is pretty naive. (and asinine)

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Cars are heavier these days for 3 reasons:
    1) Safety regulations are FAR more strict and tough than they were even just 15 years ago. Crumple zones, reinforcement, chassis stiffening due to the increased weight, etc are all factors derived from this.
    2) Aluminum is HELLA more expensive than it used to be. The price of it has skyrocketed. This means the cost to have a car with an aluminum chassis or body is substantially higher than it used to be. It's generally easier just to increase the horsepower and compensate in other areas.
    3) All other drivetrain parts increase in weight (brake sizes too) to compensate for the increased heft; which increases it even more.

    This is not because car manufacturers are lazy, it's because they are companies that have to turn a profit. And if they really made cars light as they were 15 years ago, we'd be paying a lot more for the cars than we used to.

    That being said, the FRS isn't exactly a lightweight. It is a VERY small car by today's standards (it's the size of a Miata). 2900lbs isn't all that much lighter than 3200lbs (370z weight). Setting a weight value of 3000lbs to mean 'heavy' is pretty naive. (and asinine)
    I could not have said it any better.

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    I don't know if I can say 2900 lbs and 3300 lbs are close...Guys spend quite a bit of time trying to lose 100 lbs...much less 400 lbs. I guess it's because I've seen what losing 100 lbs can do to a car and knowing that I can't toss around 400+ lbs like it's nothing

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    I don't know if I can say 2900 lbs and 3300 lbs are close...Guys spend quite a bit of time trying to lose 100 lbs...much less 400 lbs. I guess it's because I've seen what losing 100 lbs can do to a car and knowing that I can't toss around 400+ lbs like it's nothing
    2900lbs and 3200lbs (yes, base Zs are 3200lbs, and even lighter with bolt ons as the stock exhaust and such is quite heavy) are very close. All it takes is a passenger to close the gap to where it comes down to the driver weight.

    I see many act like putting 500whp in the FRS is going to make it a 'rocket'; as in faster than everything out there. A 500whp FRS will lose to a 600whp 370Z for a variety of reasons.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    lol 500 whp and you need chassis bracing, bigger brakes, lsd and coilovers? Most cars can run 10's on factory suspension lol. I had a Honda in the 11's on factory springs, brakes and shocks from 1998 with an open differential lol

    So tell me what about the mechanics of that boxer engine FORCES a torque dip? Are you referring to a tuning obstacle? Cause that's not mechanical...

    Don't know why you've gone tangent on my car...(it's pretty much the reason I DIDN'T mention it publicly) . But I never once thought or claimed to have some ultimate sports car (or a sports car to begin with lol). I told you I daily a Neon (verbatim)

    You guys act like I called your wife fat...I said I don't have a tolerance for heavier cars (3000+); it wasn't made to be personal or ruffle feathers (it wasn't even the main point of what I said earlier; I asked about the stock potential of the 370z motor)
    Bro I'm not knocking your car at all... Merely making the point that light and fast or heavy as you describe it is not always true. And if you want a 500whp FRS to stop and turn yes you need upgrades. These cars have lots of wheelhop standard. Their brakes can barely survive a lap on a road course. And no tuner has been able to totally eliminate the tq dip have I've seen. I have no intentions on adding power when I have the Vette so for me it doesn't matter.
    We stay swingin...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    2900lbs and 3200lbs (yes, base Zs are 3200lbs, and even lighter with bolt ons as the stock exhaust and such is quite heavy) are very close. All it takes is a passenger to close the gap to where it comes down to the driver weight.

    I see many act like putting 500whp in the FRS is going to make it a 'rocket'; as in faster than everything out there. A 500whp FRS will lose to a 600whp 370Z for a variety of reasons.

    eh I see 600 whp Z's trapping 130 mph...A lighter car like an FRS will do that with 500 whp. Yeah with a 100 whp deficit it's a drivers race (all bench racing aside; and that's with the "2900 = close to 3200 lbs" idea going on)... I never said it was going to be a rocket; but a 130+ mph street car (on a factory short block) that will hook is nothing to bat an eye at

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    eh I see 600 whp Z's trapping 130 mph...A lighter car like an FRS will do that with 500 whp. Yeah with a 100 whp deficit it's a drivers race (all bench racing aside; and that's with the "2900 = close to 3200 lbs" idea going on)... I never said it was going to be a rocket; but a 130+ mph street car (on a factory short block) that will hook is nothing to bat an eye at
    If you want a lighter car I mean go for it. I'll take the heavier, safer, larger car with the bigger motor capable of more power.

    You can turbo an Elise. Go-carts for the road exist if you want them.

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    Yeah I know; I mentioned the Z being a tank as an aside...this is where it went. I never wanted to convince anyone of anything; I stated my opinion after someone asked me to elaborate on it. Some people like Mayo on their sandwiches...I don't

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I know; I mentioned the Z being a tank as an aside...this is where it went. I never wanted to convince anyone of anything; I stated my opinion after someone asked me to elaborate on it. Some people like Mayo on their sandwiches...I don't
    You stated an opinion and got some back. Alls well that ends well. I'd love too see your car vs Z with twins and a built motor too see your theory at work with the same hp.
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    Some people like Mayo on their sandwiches...I don't
    How can you not like Mayo on sandwiches?

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    Taste and texture bother me...it's the in between of sauce and a gelatin..eck

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lvlemphiz Click here to enlarge
    Taste and texture bother me...it's the in between of sauce and a gelatin..eck
    We have reached an impasse.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How can you not like Mayo on sandwiches?
    Mayo is nasty...
    We stay swingin...
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