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Thread: Vishnu customer service woes + can the G5 run meth?

              
  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    @lulz_m3 , that's great idea buddy! Click here to enlarge it makes sense as long as the wastegate solenoid is able to provide enough air volume/pressure and range in its duty cycle to keep the wastegate open (as it defaults to closed in a typical external wastegate)...i am actually thinking of testing this once i've got something of a classic wastegate on my own car...both thumbs up for the idea! totally rocks..
    http://www.phearable.net/shoppingcar...noid-p-95.html Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    Oh ya, there's many of them...but reusing the OEMs would be cherry on top Click here to enlarge


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    @Sticky Can you delete this comment? Thanks

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    @Sticky Can you delete this comment? Thank you.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    It would work the same as it does stock, Applied DC allows positive boost pressure to open the wastegate. You would essentially flip all WGDC tables, compensation tables etc. Also, i'm sure you could wire in any other wastegate solenoid to work, it just needs to read the PWM signal from the DME. I remember looking awhile back and seeing some for under $100.
    You could possibly use an aftermarket boost controller (as I mentioned)... BUT stock frequency is like 200hz I believe... so wouldn't work with the posted link. It will be tough to match correct hardware and then get the DME to communicate properly.

    Much easier to use vacuum actuated WG just adding a T post solenoids for a larger WG (for single turbo)... would have to be special item I suspect.

    I really don't know anything about available boost control options. All I know is that a pressure system works by bleeding turbo pressure to hold more boost for a spring closed WG. If its electrically controlled it has to use a PWM signal, unless the signal is just altering a set bleed off volume for various mechanical boost setpoints. Anyway, need a boost control for dummies... ie me... thread.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    That's what they are SAYING, but to be honest I am quite suspect on that being the only issue. Easy scapegoat, but it doesn't explain the lack of 0-130 or track slips. Something smells fishy...
    The 1/4mi times of one of those 6AT ST's is going to be something to behold. Watching them try and launch from 2500rpm is going to be entertaining. 60-130mph is too easy to do as all one needs is to borrow a vbox, so the lack of those times posted means the cars are either slow or the customers that own ST cars are bedwetters that never intended to do anything other than pop the hood at shows to show off how much they could spend on their car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    FWIW I've given it some thought before and I could make the DME sort of work controlling a single turbo. It's just going to be very inferior when compared to the piggyback boost control approach. And since we're talking big money for the turbo, supporting parts, and labor, not to mention tuning time, I don't see any reason someone will want to try to save $400 to run an inferior tune with fewer features just for the sake of saying they don't have a piggyback.
    Once you know how to tune it, I don't see how the factory ECU controlling boost is inferior. In fact, retaining all the factory safety features is far SUPERIOR... IMO.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
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    Once you know how to tune it, I don't see how the factory ECU controlling boost is inferior. In fact, retaining all the factory safety features is far SUPERIOR... IMO.
    I mean the piggybacks serve more than just boost control too though... can, auto tuning, 2step, nos, meth, whatever relay you want... As an engineer I can appreciate that meddling with signals is not preferable to simply reprogramming the system the correct way. But living within the limits of reality where the system is closed/proprietary and you are trying to reprogram from the outside in, the alternative may be good enough if not better. In the end, it comes down to the numbers. What makes the most power? What is the most reliable? What provides the features needed? I think the answer is that piggybacks and flashes both have their benefits independently and do not have disadvantages when combined correctly. Natural conclusion then, unless you are resource limited, is to just get both.

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    As an aside, what are the factory safety features that are being defeated? Has there been any failure other than turbos, related to a tune? I haven't heard of anyone blowing up a motor, are you suggesting it is happening?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    @Sticky Can you delete this comment? Thanks
    No.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    @Sticky Can you delete this comment? Thank you.
    No x2.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    I partially agree with your comment BUT...

    With respect to a turbo kit manufacturer such as Vargas, as well as any other hardware manufacturer, they could/should care less what the limits of third party components on the car are, like say a clutch, or auto transmission clutch packs or the torque converter or the axles or the driveshaft or the pistons/rods/block...its like saying you can't sell a turbo kit because a given stock setup might not support itClick here to enlarge

    Its not the responsibility of the turbo kit manufacturer (FFTEC or Vargas or RB) to worry about hardware on the car other than the pieces in the kit they're offering. They are hardware "manufacturers", not hardware "enablers" (i.e. tuners), one key distinction Click here to enlarge Its the enablers/tuners that better know what they're doing WITH the hardware in place and what they recommend to their customers to run and what to/not to expect out of their upgrade after tuning.

    In the case of Vishnu/FFTEC (VFF) kit, FFTEC could care less IMHO They have built a great kit that provides plenty of turbo support that can wreck anything on this car from transmissions, clutches, axles, driveshafts, motor internals...its Vishnu's responsibility to feel out the limitations and offer appropriate tuning for a given setup which I'd thought they did with the smaller 58mm turbo option and keeping torque at 450wtq. Hearing these 6AT reports though it seems the 6AT cars weren't pushed through as rigorous testing as Shiv's 6MT car was. It doesn't have to mean that obviously. It could also just be a coincidence of weakened 6AT transmissions on some cars that happened to get a single turbo installed. Are all of them going kaput?
    I totally agree. However, Shiv is selling this as a complete kit. Without his tune, you can't run the turbo kit. All I'm saying is get your ducks in a row before releasing the product to the public.

    However, it's not every day that you can shut down an air strip to do 150 mph pulls for testing. I will give him that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    I totally agree. However, Shiv is selling this as a complete kit. Without his tune, you can't run the turbo kit. All I'm saying is get your ducks in a row before releasing the product to the public.

    However, it's not every day that you can shut down an air strip to do 150 mph pulls for testing. I will give him that.
    I think 6MT wise there's nothing to worry about and the kit makes sense. For 6ATs he should just openly state that testing continues and 6AT cars simply cannot run the kits at the moment and customers wouldn't get what they paid for due to issues mentioned. Nothing wrong with being honest last time I checked.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 11-29-2012 at 11:25 AM.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
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    Heh, I know another guy down here in Houston who's not happy with his Procede due to the lack of customer support. Except, he was able to get Shiv on the phone but was told that the Shiv's maps were the end all be all and not to mess with them.
    Astonishingly, in the "pre-single-turbo-era", the maps were revised every couple weeks. Nowadays, we haven't seen real updates for months.

    That's part of the reason why I decided to switch to COBB.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    I totally agree. However, Shiv is selling this as a complete kit. Without his tune, you can't run the turbo kit. All I'm saying is get your ducks in a row before releasing the product to the public.

    However, it's not every day that you can shut down an air strip to do 150 mph pulls for testing. I will give him that.
    From my point of view, where I oftenly drive on unlimited german highways, it's straight out SCARY to realize that (most, if not all) tunes made in the US are in fact not tested at higher speeds. Unfortunately tuning packages in Europe are mostly very conservative and/or overprized.

    I still don't get it why so few US tuners actually take the cars to a roadcourse and test the crap out of them before selling anything to the general public.
    E92 335i SB / Black Leather / 6AT / Navi Prof / Sunroof / Active Steering
    Mods: Performance Seats / Performance Exhaust / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / M3 Mirrors / Forge FMIC / QUAIFE LSD / Ohlins R&T / M3 Suspension Parts / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR catted DP / COBB Pro-Tune
    Next: GTS Wing

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
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    Once you know how to tune it, I don't see how the factory ECU controlling boost is inferior. In fact, retaining all the factory safety features is far SUPERIOR... IMO.
    The fundamental problem with it is that you don't have the ability to change the basic logic used. The factory safety features are actually woefully inadequate. There is essentially no effective run lean safety, there is no way to reduce boost as a function of timing/knock feedback and the ignition glow codes won't throw until you've basically trashed the motor, the 30FE over boost safety won't trigger until seconds after it should, the wastegates learning algorithm used is very limited, etc, etc. All in all it's a very limiting tuning environment compared to what we can do with an external system where we write the actual firmware to do anything we can imagine.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
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    From my point of view, where I oftenly drive on unlimited german highways, it's straight out SCARY to realize that (most, if not all) tunes made in the US are in fact not tested at higher speeds. Unfortunately tuning packages in Europe are mostly very conservative and/or overprized.

    I still don't get it why so few US tuners actually take the cars to a roadcourse and test the crap out of them before selling anything to the general public.
    The opportunities to go faster than ~130 mph are extremely limited in the states, so why bother spending the money to test an extreme corner case when you can offer a more competitive price for your product and get it to market faster?

    EDIT: Not saying this is the most ethical or safe way to do it, but it makes sense from a business perspective.

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    Figured it out, nvm.This is what i posted if ur curious, i condensed it....
    Hey everyone,I know my thread has turned into a discussion about STs and all, but i have a few questions that i feel didnt warrant a new thread.First question:
    I tried updating my Maps/firmware today, and i was confused as to what to do.... Ill post what Shiv says to do:Update Process:
    (Many of these steps are redundant but always better to be safe and sorry)
    Step 1: Update to firmware #111 as usual (laptop plugged in to a AC socket) using the Procede User Tuning Interface v5.34 or later (downloadable from procedetuning.com)
    Step 2: After firmware update is complete (0-100%) and Procede resets, turn ignition power fully OFF and wait 2 secondsStep 3: Turn ignition power fully ONStep 4: Upload the appropriate 5-23 mapStep 5: Once uploaded, go to Mode 3 on the Command Center and do commands 12 thru 1 (12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 in that order). It's also a good idea to wait 10 seconds once Command 3 is executed (DME reset) before progressing to 2 and then 1.Step 6: Go to COMMS menu in user software and select "Reset Procede". This will take a few seconds. With the newer user software, you will have to manually go offline/online since the software will not automatically recover from the Reset.
    Step 7: Turn ignition power fully OFF and wait 5 secondsStep 8: Start car and begin driving!The bolded part is what i did not do, as i couldnt figure out how to.... I tried to double-tap the cruise control-stalk to open the command center but it wouldnt open even though the ignition was on. I ended up ignoring this step (its not in the video guides as to how to update the maps either). I then reset the Procede, and started the car and it ran fine. I havent been out for a drive yet (busy w/ work).What does that step do and is it okay that i skipped it? I never have done that step (now that i think about it) and ive updated my maps several times.


    Figured it out, nvm

    But im still curious about this:
    Second Question:
    What are the different stages, and the different maps? The stages in the folder go:
    Stg 0, 1, 2, 3, FBO w/ Upgraded Turbos

    I was using Stg 0 (since i have no mods), but after reading the "Read Me" file again, it states: "Stg 1 is appropriate for unmodified (or lightly modified) vehicles. Stg 2 is intended for more modified vehicles (ie, downpipes or FMIC). And Stg3 is intended for a fully modified cars (DCI and downpipes and FMIC). Using a map that is too aggressive for your hardware/conditions will result in inconsistent performance."

    In this case, what does STG 0 do? Stock-like ECU maps?

    Thanks, Eric
    Last edited by Eric335; 11-29-2012 at 04:22 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eric335 Click here to enlarge
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    Figured it out, nvm.This is what i posted if ur curious, i condensed it....
    Hey everyone,I know my thread has turned into a discussion about STs and all, but i have a few questions that i feel didnt warrant a new thread.First question:
    I tried updating my Maps/firmware today, and i was confused as to what to do.... Ill post what Shiv says to do:Update Process:
    (Many of these steps are redundant but always better to be safe and sorry)
    Step 1: Update to firmware #111 as usual (laptop plugged in to a AC socket) using the Procede User Tuning Interface v5.34 or later (downloadable from procedetuning.com)
    Step 2: After firmware update is complete (0-100%) and Procede resets, turn ignition power fully OFF and wait 2 secondsStep 3: Turn ignition power fully ONStep 4: Upload the appropriate 5-23 mapStep 5: Once uploaded, go to Mode 3 on the Command Center and do commands 12 thru 1 (12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 in that order). It's also a good idea to wait 10 seconds once Command 3 is executed (DME reset) before progressing to 2 and then 1.Step 6: Go to COMMS menu in user software and select "Reset Procede". This will take a few seconds. With the newer user software, you will have to manually go offline/online since the software will not automatically recover from the Reset.
    Step 7: Turn ignition power fully OFF and wait 5 secondsStep 8: Start car and begin driving!The bolded part is what i did not do, as i couldnt figure out how to.... I tried to double-tap the cruise control-stalk to open the command center but it wouldnt open even though the ignition was on. I ended up ignoring this step (its not in the video guides as to how to update the maps either). I then reset the Procede, and started the car and it ran fine. I havent been out for a drive yet (busy w/ work).What does that step do and is it okay that i skipped it? I never have done that step (now that i think about it) and ive updated my maps several times.


    Figured it out, nvm

    But im still curious about this:
    Second Question:
    What are the different stages, and the different maps? The stages in the folder go:
    Stg 0, 1, 2, 3, FBO w/ Upgraded Turbos

    I was using Stg 0 (since i have no mods), but after reading the "Read Me" file again, it states: "Stg 1 is appropriate for unmodified (or lightly modified) vehicles. Stg 2 is intended for more modified vehicles (ie, downpipes or FMIC). And Stg3 is intended for a fully modified cars (DCI and downpipes and FMIC). Using a map that is too aggressive for your hardware/conditions will result in inconsistent performance."

    In this case, what does STG 0 do? Stock-like ECU maps?

    Thanks, Eric
    Mother of God thats hard to read...
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    Mother of God thats hard to read...
    Hahaha yeah. I shoudlve just deleted the first part. I kept it in case someone was wondering what my first question was, even though i found the answer. @Sticky, just edit out that first part please? lol The second question is the only one i have left...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eric335 Click here to enlarge
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    Hahaha yeah. I shoudlve just deleted the first part. I kept it in case someone was wondering what my first question was, even though i found the answer. @Sticky , just edit out that first part please? lol The second question is the only one i have left...
    The issue isn't the deleting it's how you formatted the post. Poor spacing, font, etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    The issue isn't the deleting it's how you formatted the post. Poor spacing, font, etc.
    I know, i edited it so that you would ignore the first question, but it was still there if u wanted to see what it was. I was hoping it would be smaller, i guess. I ended up solving the first question myself, thats why its edited the way it is. The second question remains a mystery.

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    Ok well I'm going to leave it alone as I have a lot of other stuff to do at the moment. People should be able to figure it out.

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    Not a huge difference in power levels between Stg0 and Stg1. Stg1 runs a little more boost up top and maybe something negligable like 0.5* of timing. If your gas allows you to run Stg1, then do it. Otherwise run Stg0.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
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    Not a huge difference in power levels between Stg0 and Stg1. Stg1 runs a little more boost up top and maybe something negligable like 0.5* of timing. If your gas allows you to run Stg1, then do it. Otherwise run Stg0.
    Thank you! Id rep if i could.

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