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Thread: Vishnu customer service woes + can the G5 run meth?

              
  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    Don't get me wrong, I am not making excuses for them. Hopefully @VargasTurboTech takes note of this and they have their turbos tested at all speeds on both AT and 6MT before releasing to the public. Please do not release an unfinished product to the public.
    If you are comparing hybrids to the Vishnu single with tuning in mind its not even a comparison. They change all the O2's around and the way boost is controlled which makes it very hard to tune. Turbochargers have nothing to do with tuning they are an air pump and you have to tune to take advantage of the additional air they introduce into the engine. We have stated and we continue to state. We sell turbos, we are not a tuner and tuning is the SOLE responsibility of the OP.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    If you are comparing hybrids to the Vishnu single with tuning in mind its not even a comparison. They change all the O2's around and the way boost is controlled which makes it very hard to tune. Turbochargers have nothing to do with tuning they are an air pump and you have to tune to take advantage of the additional air they introduce into the engine. We have stated and we continue to state. We sell turbos, we are not a tuner and tuning is the SOLE responsibility of the OP.
    It's simply not possible to tune the Vishnu single turbo flash-only. Needs an external boost controller, which the Procede is acting as. I don't see why a JB4 or whatever else can't do the same though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Hi Eric,

    You don't need the BMS flash for meth. That is for running 50% or more E85 WITHOUT meth.

    RE: Meth we sell integrated JB4 meth kits. Many hundreds or thousands run meth with their JB4. Maybe you are asking if the G5 can run your procede meth kit? The deal is Shiv sort of stiffed you guys by not giving you the normal electronics you would get if you bought a stand alone aquamist kit. I say stiffed because you paid for them but just didn't get them. So long story short to run your methanol kit with the JB4 you need either our FSB controller to have an integrated setup, or a stand alone Aquamist controller to have a non-integrated setup. With the stand alone controller you could also feed flow sensor input in to the FSB for a semi-integrated kit.
    No, the cost of the electronics is Shiv's profit Click here to enlarge

  4. #29
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    I thought the issue with the singles was the auto trans. What else i acting up from what shiv ran last year at this event vs. this year?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    It's simply not possible to tune the Vishnu single turbo flash-only. Needs an external boost controller, which the Procede is acting as. I don't see why a JB4 or whatever else can't do the same though.
    I still think its possible to tune the single turbo flash only. Change the current vacuum source to attach to the intake manifold and tune the WGDC tables. Done.
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss

  6. #31
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    I'm sure it's possible to tune an N54 single turbo flash only given enough time but I can't think of a single reason anyone would want to. It's a square peg in a round hole.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 11-28-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    I'm sure it's possible to tune an N55 single turbo flash only given enough time but I can't think of a single reason anyone would want to. It's a square peg in a round hole.
    Would you mind explaining the square peg in a round hole comment? Do you mean because it is a single turbo and isn't worth tuning?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
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    Would you mind explaining the square peg in a round hole comment? Do you mean because it is a single turbo and isn't worth tuning?
    Terry is saying it IS possible to tune a ST with ONLY a flash tune ONLY, but compares it to trying to get a square peg into a round hole because a flash tune + a piggy back would be a round peg, in his opinion.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
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    Terry is saying it IS possible to tune a ST with ONLY a flash tune ONLY, but compares it to trying to get a square peg into a round hole because a flash tune + a piggy back would be a round peg, in his opinion.
    +1
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  10. #35
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    I'm not sure who said it above but it seems after shift sector its not the tuning that is killing them but the AT problems. But I only know what I read on this forum and the other one. So I could very well be wrong.
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
    N55 World Record: 487WHP / 530WTQ, 11.4 ET / 123MPH
    N54 Stock Frame (100% E85) World Record: 645WHP / 654WTQ
    N54 (ACN 91 octane only) World Record, Stock Motor: 573WHP / 537WTQ
    Website - Email


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
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    Terry is saying it IS possible to tune a ST with ONLY a flash tune ONLY, but compares it to trying to get a square peg into a round hole because a flash tune + a piggy back would be a round peg, in his opinion.
    Thanks man! I misunderstood that we were talking about a flash only for the ST. Makes perfect sense.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not sure who said it above but it seems after shift sector its not the tuning that is killing them but the AT problems. But I only know what I read on this forum and the other one. So I could very well be wrong.
    The consensus is that tuning on any of the cars was not fully complete, as none were ready to run on Saturday, and that they all-minus the Shiv himself- had "issues"

    addittionally, that there is still no REAL review of any of the cars

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not sure who said it above but it seems after shift sector its not the tuning that is killing them but the AT problems. But I only know what I read on this forum and the other one. So I could very well be wrong.
    It's the TCU intervention and the fact the tranny is running hotter than the blazes of hell with that much torque. I'm not at all surprised considering nitrous + stock turbos was doing the same thing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    I still think its possible to tune the single turbo flash only. Change the current vacuum source to attach to the intake manifold and tune the WGDC tables. Done.
    That would require that you have two vacuum sources wired up to the wastegate then fool the ECU into thinking it's two banks, unless Cobb is up for writing a good amount of custom code which I don't think they have any interest in doing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    I still think its possible to tune the single turbo flash only. Change the current vacuum source to attach to the intake manifold and tune the WGDC tables. Done.
    Click here to enlarge wonder how many others thought of that..


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    Don't get me wrong, I am not making excuses for them. Hopefully @VargasTurboTech takes note of this and they have their turbos tested at all speeds on both AT and 6MT before releasing to the public. Please do not release an unfinished product to the public without having everything covered including proper tuning.
    I partially agree with your comment BUT...

    With respect to a turbo kit manufacturer such as Vargas, as well as any other hardware manufacturer, they could/should care less what the limits of third party components on the car are, like say a clutch, or auto transmission clutch packs or the torque converter or the axles or the driveshaft or the pistons/rods/block...its like saying you can't sell a turbo kit because a given stock setup might not support itClick here to enlarge

    Its not the responsibility of the turbo kit manufacturer (FFTEC or Vargas or RB) to worry about hardware on the car other than the pieces in the kit they're offering. They are hardware "manufacturers", not hardware "enablers" (i.e. tuners), one key distinction Click here to enlarge Its the enablers/tuners that better know what they're doing WITH the hardware in place and what they recommend to their customers to run and what to/not to expect out of their upgrade after tuning.

    In the case of Vishnu/FFTEC (VFF) kit, FFTEC could care less IMHO They have built a great kit that provides plenty of turbo support that can wreck anything on this car from transmissions, clutches, axles, driveshafts, motor internals...its Vishnu's responsibility to feel out the limitations and offer appropriate tuning for a given setup which I'd thought they did with the smaller 58mm turbo option and keeping torque at 450wtq. Hearing these 6AT reports though it seems the 6AT cars weren't pushed through as rigorous testing as Shiv's 6MT car was. It doesn't have to mean that obviously. It could also just be a coincidence of weakened 6AT transmissions on some cars that happened to get a single turbo installed. Are all of them going kaput?
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 11-28-2012 at 06:00 PM.


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    I'm not even sure if the problem they are having is the same as the problem we were having with the RBs middle of 5th gear. I posted a log on what ours was doing. I've yet to see any data from any of their cars posted....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    I still think its possible to tune the single turbo flash only. Change the current vacuum source to attach to the intake manifold and tune the WGDC tables. Done.
    This would mean using the stock solenoid as a boost controller using pressure... not possible cause you can't use as pass-through. Need either a true boost controller that could fit to the stock connector or vac actuated WG.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
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    This would mean using the stock solenoid as a boost controller using pressure... not possible cause you can't use as pass-through. Need either a true boost controller that could fit to the stock connector or vac actuated WG.
    FWIW I've given it some thought before and I could make the DME sort of work controlling a single turbo. It's just going to be very inferior when compared to the piggyback boost control approach. And since we're talking big money for the turbo, supporting parts, and labor, not to mention tuning time, I don't see any reason someone will want to try to save $400 to run an inferior tune with fewer features just for the sake of saying they don't have a piggyback.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
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    You will like it alot here. Sticky is a great guy
    Gospel right here.

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    LOL Good to see I am not the only one! I have tried countless times reaching out for support and getting nothing. I had to teach myself to tune it. Tired of it and tired of not being able to run e85, so switching to a Cobb when I can. Anyone looking for a Procede ??? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    I'm not sure who said it above but it seems after shift sector its not the tuning that is killing them but the AT problems. But I only know what I read on this forum and the other one. So I could very well be wrong.
    That's what they are SAYING, but to be honest I am quite suspect on that being the only issue. Easy scapegoat, but it doesn't explain the lack of 0-130 or track slips. Something smells fishy...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
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    This would mean using the stock solenoid as a boost controller using pressure... not possible cause you can't use as pass-through. Need either a true boost controller that could fit to the stock connector or vac actuated WG.
    It would work the same as it does stock, Applied DC allows positive boost pressure to open the wastegate. You would essentially flip all WGDC tables, compensation tables etc. Also, i'm sure you could wire in any other wastegate solenoid to work, it just needs to read the PWM signal from the DME. I remember looking awhile back and seeing some for under $100.
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    That would require that you have two vacuum sources wired up to the wastegate then fool the ECU into thinking it's two banks, unless Cobb is up for writing a good amount of custom code which I don't think they have any interest in doing.
    Does the DME run independent WGDC per bank? I thought it was just mirrored, but honestly havent logged to see.
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    It would work the same as it does stock, Applied DC allows positive boost pressure to open the wastegate. You would essentially flip all WGDC tables, compensation tables etc. Also, i'm sure you could wire in any other wastegate solenoid to work, it just needs to read the PWM signal from the DME. I remember looking awhile back and seeing some for under $100.
    @lulz_m3 , that's great idea buddy! Click here to enlarge it makes sense as long as the wastegate solenoid is able to provide enough air volume/pressure and range in its duty cycle to keep the wastegate open (as it defaults to closed in a typical external wastegate)...i am actually thinking of testing this once i've got something of a classic wastegate on my own car...both thumbs up for the idea! totally rocks..

    Worst case, nothing a simplest electronic boost controller wouldn't be able to take care of...even the mechanical one would work, just flash the appropriate load curve Click here to enlarge ghetto but it could work...in any case, we all always strive towards the cleanest solution but those will come with time...for me, i'll run whatever is required to have reliable tuning but my preference is all-in inside the DME if possible...no offense to anyone..


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