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Thread: Greek riots

              
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    Greek riots

    Have fun paying for these people forever Germany:


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    I want a water cannon truck

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Gregxi Click here to enlarge
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    I want a water cannon truck
    To spray Greeks with?

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    It's naive to think that the Greek people are solely to blame for the situation, same applies to Spain, Portugal, Italy and many other countries.

    When the EU was created it was to make transportation of goods and workforce more easy.

    When the EURO was created it was to create common grounds of exchange. Then the EU started adding countries. What then happined was that Lenders forgot how to evaluate country risk because they applied the same risk standards to any country within the EURO.. The Greeks (and the other troubled countries) were flodded with cheap capital from Germany, France, Netherlands and others. They had a spree of artificial growh fueled by cheap funding, and the European Uninion loved it because it averaged up the overall growth in the Eurozone.. Then the $#@! it the fan.. People started to realise the these countries would never be able to pay the money back, because there was no underlying growth, only artificial (funding steroid growth) in their systems.

    Now.. rather than realising that this money has been spent/lost, Germany, France and others want Greece to repay, which Greece can not do, NEVER. The loss needs to be booked, but Germany does not want to book losses,, and France cant afford it because their banking system is stuffed full of Greek, Spanish and Portugese bonds. So what do they do.. they create a Ponzi scheeme, printing EURO to buy the bad gov bonds at the market to artificially inflate the value, while devaluating the underlying assets of all other europeans.
    Then they force Greece to accept a bailout, so that Greece can repay Germany and France. so where is the money coming from .. its coming from the German (and others) people.. lent to greece to pay germans,

    There is so much nonsense in all of this that it almost makes me puke.

    Lending someone who is broke more money will never work if you know that the borrower will never make enough money in the future to pay off the first loan. Forcing Greece to do all of this austarity is crazy if they are still using the Euro. They will get all the bad effect without getting the benefits of a falling domestic currency, which would then bring producers to the country to utilize the cheap labor, bring tourists to the country because it will be cheaper than other comparable vacation options, bring investors to the country because assets would be relatively cheap.
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    I have no clue how to fix the Greek situation. But I don't know if riots are the answer...

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    If you would feel your way of life to be under threat you would probably riot, unemployment above 30%, everything being cut down...
    Your future would be unemployment, for the next 10-15years if Greece is forced to repay what they can not afford.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    If you would feel your way of life to be under threat you would probably riot, unemployment above 30%, everything being cut down...
    Your future would be unemployment, for the next 10-15years if Greece is forced to repay what they can not afford.
    Greeks should blame themselves and quit looking for others to support them.

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    The blame should be shared, they were sold a dummy,, which they can not afford.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    The blame should be shared, they were sold a dummy,, which they can not afford.
    Nobody put a gun to their head. They were fiscally irresponsible and now all of Europe has to pay. I'm sick of them crying that they can't get more handouts on the dime of other countries.

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    You are not looking at the big picture man... Greece was, by entering into the EU, promised a diffenrent way of life. Off course they were irresponsible, but who was fueling it? Who made tons of money issuing all the loans. The big banks in Germany/France and NL were.

    A loan is an agreement between two parties. Borrower and Lender. Just because the borrower wants to borrow more, does not mean the lender should lend.

    The whole of Europe and US for example went on a spending spree fueled by cheap money. The stupidity of regulatory ease in the past 20 years allowed investment banks to multiply the money available, without anyone giving a thought to sustainability.

    We have managed to spend 20-30 years of natural economy growth bu borrowing more than we can pay, this came true in the US in 2008 and subsiquently EU followed. Now they are trying to sell Greece the dummy again.. that they will have growth in the near future so that they can repay what they have borrowed.. at the same time they are cutting down and people are loosing their jobs and they are stuck with the same currency...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    If you would feel your way of life to be under threat you would probably riot, unemployment above 30%, everything being cut down...
    Your future would be unemployment, for the next 10-15years if Greece is forced to repay what they can not afford.
    oh.. so somewhat close to where we are now, and where we will be in 10 years..?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    The blame should be shared, they were sold a dummy,, which they can not afford.
    This is completely wrong.

    Greece should have never been allowed to use the euro. By their own admission Greece did not disclose the true picture of their debt situation as part of their application.

    Lets be very clear here, the Greek politicians lied and as a result, the EUR currency is under threat as a result of the Greek actions.

    The blame on this one rests with Greece, not with the rest of Europe.

    Greece was going bankrupt long before their admission to the EU and we are paying as a result.


    I will quit being rude if you quit being stupid.

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    That's nice. You know, because burning cops to death - that will fix things. WTF is wrong with people?

    Also, the guy on the water cannon sucks. He needs lessons from a Chilean.

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    In other news on Sunday the first Norwegian oil exploration vessel went on search for gas and oil reserves in the Ionian sea and South of Crete. This is the first formal search for oil although this has been done on the past many times before with the results kept secret. Both the Germans under Nazi rule and the Yanks have done this and know what the results are going to be.
    The Aegean island is off limits due to our unfriendly neighbors.
    Results will be released in January this year (everyone already knows the results) and drilling will start in January of 2014 which is when cough cough Germany has said Greece will come out of the recession. They are now pushing gun to head for special accounts that all money from resources must go into. All resources are also signed over to the IMF under clause 14 of the loan agreement.
    Last month after 15 years of red tape gold mining restarted in Greece with 15billion Euro in proven reserves in 3 sites. Coincidence?
    Germany lacks a major resources and that is oil. By indebting Greece they will have their future secured. The rescue plan they have formulated keeps the country indebted as the country is in recession the GDP drops and the loan percentage increases. The Greeks on the other hand squandered the money and bent over nicely to get shafted.
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    So Germany will take their resources to pay off the debt? Makes sense...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So Germany will take their resources to pay off the debt? Makes sense...
    For sure. Most the debt money was spent in the German economy anyway. To get a idea google Seimens Greek scandal.
    Prior to the Olympics debt skyrocketed 32bilion in a year. Guess who got the majority of the contracts with phenomenal profits and unreal margins.
    End of the day it's not the Germans to blame, the just played their role. It's the rotten politicians.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
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    For sure. Most the debt money was spent in the German economy anyway. To get a idea google Seimens Greek scandal.
    Prior to the Olympics debt skyrocketed 32bilion in a year. Guess who got the majority of the contracts with phenomenal profits and unreal margins.
    End of the day it's not the Germans to blame, the just played their role. It's the rotten politicians.
    If that's true I say the Greeks should be aiming their anger somewhere else.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    If that's true I say the Greeks should be aiming their anger somewhere else.
    well, much like whats brewing here, the people are outraged against their elected officials.. so its actually directed appropriatly

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
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    well, much like whats brewing here, the people are outraged against their elected officials.. so its actually directed appropriatly
    Hmm that's fairly correct but the riots are just hurting regular citizens, not the politicians.

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    The financial burden of the money that Greece has spent and has been lost, and was lent irresponsible by German/Frence/Dutch/Belgian,,,, banks should not be born by the citizents of Europe, or the people of Greece. It should be born by the risktakers, the lenders. The banks should be allowed to go broke, without using taxpayers money to protect the weatlth of few (equity and bondholders).

    Governments should focus on protecting the payment systems and deposits and forget about protecting the investors.

    Citizents are not risktakers, they should never pay for the greed of bankers, chasing bonuses and lending more than is sensible. Inverstors who bought the bonds issued by these banks to raise funds to lend to Greece/Spain/Portugal should be the one loosing out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    banks should not be born by the citizents of Europe, or the people of Greece. It should be born by the risktakers, the lenders. The banks should be allowed to go broke, without using taxpayers money to protect the weatlth of few (equity and bondholders).
    I agree with this.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
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    Governments should focus on protecting the payment systems and deposits and forget about protecting the investors.
    The governments are now dependent on the banks too. The bankers win.

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    Governments are dependent on two things
    1. Voters
    2. Capital

    Bansk should dependent on one thing
    1. Capital
    But in fact they are today dependent on something else
    2. Government

    Today, Many the banks are stuffed with worthless capital, kept alive by printing money, which is then used to inflate the worthless assets in the secondary market. the Whole Greek, Spanish, Italian, French and some of the German banking system is broke, if you do a market to market valuation, and zero out the effect of money printing and central bank purchasing.

    Banks are today on government life support. The big question is "why are they kept alive?" They should in fact all be nationalized in a way where the government takes over the bank to protect the depositors and payment system, because that is the only thing that we need from a bank. The investment banking part should be left to the bondholders, put in a seperate company and they can then state their claim.

    By doing this, the covernment does not need to re-capitalize the banks,, the worthless assets are given to the bondholders of the banks, one worthless asset for another.
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    The whole system is clearly pretty screwed up.

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