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  1. #76
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    I don't have a horse in the race here but I think what was meant by RB 'creating a market' is that his product proved there were enough N54 owners interested in the style of upgrade that it was worth the risk of investing the required capital to tool up for production beyond one pair of hybrid turbos. If only 2 people wound up buying them that wouldn't exactly be what most people would call a "market".

    I hope Vargas is successful regardless- particularly with stage 3 N54 and their N55 project.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
    I don't have a horse in the race here but I think what was meant by RB 'creating a market' is that his product proved there were enough N54 owners interested in the style of upgrade that it was worth the risk of investing the required capital to tool up for production beyond one pair of hybrid turbos. If only 2 people wound up buying them that wouldn't exactly be what most people would call a "market".

    I hope Vargas is successful regardless- particularly with stage 3 N54 and their N55 project.
    Create and validate are different words. The 3 Series is high volume of course people are going to be interested in upgrades, even the smaller M3 market is. This is self-evident.

    Vargas is successful, people need to relax. The RB upgrade is going to be a distant memory soon enough as better and more competitive options come to market. In the end, the N54 enthusiasts win.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The RB upgrade is going to be a distant memory soon enough as better and more competitive options come to market.
    That is an unfair statement IMHO and tons of other posts in this thread are really uncalled for in terms of both companies/solutions. I have respect for both guys and this sort of talk is counter productive at best to be honest. Let the products and results do the talking guys. We don't have to stir things up to have stuff to talk about on this forum. Plenty of new things and developments to discuss that this sort of drama really isn't necessary at all.

    In the meantime here's a suggestion/question: what's the flow rate of a 1/4" line for gasoline pumping at 72psi from a Walbro E85 pump? Is the line posing a sizeable restriction in terms of pressure drop across the length of the line from the LPFP to the HPFP and requires a larger, say 3/8" fuel line in place of the 1/4" (~8mm) line.

    Then, what does the inlet on the HPFP look like and can it be modified to fit a larger size line? Is the fuel pressure regulator possibly restricting fuel volume flow from the LPFP to the HPFP being that its in between? Is this possibly the next step in our fuel upgrade?

    Just some questions and stuff I'd personally much rather bicker about than what this thread has turned into Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #79
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    That is an unfair statement IMHO
    I don't think so. Up until now RB was the really the only option. Vargas is a much larger scale operation that can undercut RB. We have an actual turbo company versus a garage builder. It's really not a comparison from a business side.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't think so. Up until now RB was the really the only option. Vargas is a much larger scale operation that can undercut RB. We have an actual turbo company versus a garage builder. It's really not a comparison from a business side.
    I don't intend to keep discussing this topic myself to be honest. I'd rather talk fuel limitations, solutions, numbers. What's the point of this particular discussion and what will come of it in the end? To compare companies at the business level or discuss a turbo upgrade and updates from one of the two vendors?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't think so. Up until now RB was the really the only option. Vargas is a much larger scale operation that can undercut RB. We have an actual turbo company versus a garage builder. It's really not a comparison from a business side.
    I can underline what dzenno said...
    We need to compare the products... but we can't, yet.
    There is absolutely no need to diffame RB in that way.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I don't intend to keep discussing this topic myself to be honest. I'd rather talk fuel limitations, solutions, numbers. What's the point of this particular discussion and what will come of it in the end? To compare companies at the business level or discuss a turbo upgrade and updates from one of the two vendors?
    Go right and ahead and discuss it I addressed a point you posted hence the quote.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kollegga Click here to enlarge
    I can underline what dzenno said...
    We need to compare the products... but we can't, yet.
    There is absolutely no need to diffame RB in that way.
    It isn't defaming anyone it is a fact. We have a company in business for decades and a forum poster working from his garage. It is what it is.

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    I hope both companies are successful. Competition is good and we should all benefit if they can co-exist. What's wrong with having options? In my experience, competition results in better products.

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    Yes it is what it is.
    But from this u can't derive which product is better...

    Coming back to ur discussion level sticky:
    The building from Vargas also looks like a (bigger) garage ;-) No offense to u Tony and it absolutely doesnt matter where products are manufactured.
    I just want to explain that it doesnt make sense what sticky says.
    We defenitely can't compare from that point...

    Time will tell and competition is great !

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kollegga Click here to enlarge
    Coming back to ur discussion level sticky:
    The building from Vargas also looks like a (bigger) garage ;-) No offense to u Tony and it absolutely doesnt matter where products are manufactured.
    I just want to explain that it doesnt make sense what sticky says.
    I suppose all a BMW production factory then really happens to be is just a big garage if you want to exaggerate for effect.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kollegga Click here to enlarge
    But from this u can't derive which product is better...
    Well we will have to wait and see. But I'd put my money on the people who have a real storefront and facility and are not just going to modify stock housings but offer a real Stage 3 upgrade.

    If anyone else wants to show their skill let's see them do something a little more profound than playing with what BMW already provided.

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    I don't have a dog in this fight at this point but I do have to give props to Tony for keeping things professional overall. I also think his tranparency and rate of progress are impressive. I probably would not go with Stage 3 for my car but am anxious to see what he comes up with as it could find its way to the lower stage products.

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    Good grief Sticky, you're reminding me of e90post/Jason and the crap over there with Vishnu, quit with the Vargas defense and let him fail/succeed on his own.

    Do I get preferential treatment if I become a sponsor on here?

    I sure hope Vargas succeeds, but all this back and forth garbage is leaving a lasting impression of everyone involved, and not a good one at that.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Good grief Sticky, you're reminding me of e90post/Jason and the crap over there with Vishnu, quit with the Vargas defense and let him fail/succeed on his own.

    Do I get preferential treatment if I become a sponsor on here?

    I sure hope Vargas succeeds, but all this back and forth garbage is leaving a lasting impression of everyone involved, and not a good one at that.
    +1 Sticky is quite the hypocrite knocking someone who has the only legitimate twin turbo upgrade today. Very Jason-like isn't it? If Tony wasn't a vendor would you still defend him this vehemently? This is a serious question.

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    This back and forth is stupid and benefits the platform in no way. RB filled a void in the turbo market and Vargas is releasing a competing product. Nothing more and nothing less. It's no different than when Shiv brought the PROcede to market, then the JB come to be and eventually Cobb got into the game. It's a natural evolution and it's a good thing for all consumers. Just look at how much Terry and Shiv have had to step up their games since Cobb arrived in the market.

    Let Tony's product speak for it self and leave all personal BS out of it. If you have an allegiance to RB that's fine but leave it out of the Vargas threads. It's that simple.
    Last edited by rader1; 11-20-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    Good grief Sticky, you're reminding me of e90post/Jason and the crap over there with Vishnu, quit with the Vargas defense and let him fail/succeed on his own.

    Do I get preferential treatment if I become a sponsor on here?

    I sure hope Vargas succeeds, but all this back and forth garbage is leaving a lasting impression of everyone involved, and not a good one at that.
    I'm reminding you of them how? By deleting your post and banning you? Anyone who doesn't say pro-Vargas everything is banned? Everything is deleted? Seriously, shove that nonsense and your exaggeration. Not even remotely applicable.

    Do you get preferential treatment if you become a sponsor? Um, ya, you get preferential treatment that comes with being a vendor or what would be the point of being a vendor in the first place? You get advertising and feature benefits, it's what you pay for. Are you seriously this stupid?

    I sure hope you start making some points that make sense. I don't think your patently false conclusions are going to have any measurable effect on the market.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    +1 Sticky is quite the hypocrite knocking someone who has the only legitimate twin turbo upgrade today. Very Jason-like isn't it? If Tony wasn't a vendor would you still defend him this vehemently? This is a serious question.
    You're not the brightest bulb so I take no offense but I'm curious how I'm a hypocrite exactly? Please, do tell. How is it Jason-like? Or is it more accurate that whenever you don't get what you want to pull the Jason card so to speak?

    Aren't you the little girl who was screaming about pulling a video down showing your mis-fires so you could get free stuff from Vishnu and then used that to try and get free parts from Terry? You're the hypocrite child, now run along.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Let Tony's product speak for it self and leave all personal BS out of it. If you have an allegiance to RB that's fine but leave it out of the Vargas threads. It's that simple.
    Kids seem to be forgetting it's the RB trolls who keep bringing him up in a vendor's threads. Time to be more strict looks like so the kids understand vendor's threads on products are to be respected. If they want to truly see Jason like moderation I'll be glad to accommodate as it would appear some are having trouble understanding the difference. Seems people are forgetting how good they have it here.

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    Honestly, everyone please just chill. I will let everyone know when there is something new to report, until then go eat turkey, watch footbal,l and argue with your annoying in-laws. Everyone, enjoy your holidays and be safe.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Honestly, everyone please just chill. I will let everyone know when there is something new to report, until then go eat turkey, watch footbal,l and argue with your annoying in-laws. Everyone, enjoy your holidays and be safe.
    I love you man, I can't take this nagging either. Just wait till the damn products are up for testing. Then start the discussions, for now it's all speculation.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    This back and forth is stupid and benefits the platform in no way. RB filled a void in the turbo market and Vargas is releasing a competing product. Nothing more and nothing less. It's no different than when Shiv brought the PROcede to market, then the JB come to be and eventually Cobb got into the game. It's a natural evolution and it's a good thing for all consumers. Just look at how much Terry and Shiv have had to step up their games since Cobb arrived in the market.

    Let Tony's product speak for it self and leave all personal BS out of it. If you have an allegiance to RB that's fine but leave it out of the Vargas threads. It's that simple.
    +1
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    Just cut it Sticky. You're clearly taking sides, but based on what? The fact that A is a vendor and (R)B isn't? Not very neutral for a moderator (yes I know you're not a moderator, but you should be).

    Why don't we let the products speak for themselves, whether they're made in a garage or wherever? In the end it's the quality that counts.

    Will you turn around like a windmill, if Rob decides to acquire vendor status? Jeez!

    I hope it all turns out fine for Tony and that his turbos work. With more upgraded turbo cars around, tuners see more potential customers and will further R&D maps for these cars.

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    No point in arguing with Sticky on his own forum, however I can't say I'm surprised at all by his reply.

    I am taking Tony's excellent advice and staying out of these threads to enjoy my holiday.

    I do hope the movers can ignore the noise (dzenno,Terry,Tony,etc) and I look forward to the inevitable advancements if everyone stays engaged. Results speak the loudest and I wish Tony the best of luck. If this general decline in the atmosphere of the site keeps up I'll just be getting those updates where there is less pointless drama.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    No point in arguing with Sticky on his own forum, however I can't say I'm surprised at all by his reply.

    I am taking Tony's excellent advice and staying out of these threads to enjoy my holiday.

    I do hope the movers can ignore the noise (dzenno,Terry,Tony,etc) and I look forward to the inevitable advancements if everyone stays engaged. Results speak the loudest and I wish Tony the best of luck. If this general decline in the atmosphere of the site keeps up I'll just be getting those updates where there is less pointless drama.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Just cut it Sticky. You're clearly taking sides, but based on what? The fact that A is a vendor and (R)B isn't? Not very neutral for a moderator (yes I know you're not a moderator, but you should be).

    Why don't we let the products speak for themselves, whether they're made in a garage or wherever? In the end it's the quality that counts.

    Will you turn around like a windmill, if Rob decides to acquire vendor status? Jeez!

    I hope it all turns out fine for Tony and that his turbos work. With more upgraded turbo cars around, tuners see more potential customers and will further R&D maps for these cars.

    Click here to enlarge
    No I'm sorry I'm balancing the sides as the same handful is disparaging a vendor simply because the timing of them coming to market is different than someone else.

    I keep saying wait and let the market decide and competition wins. So try and get it through your head this time.

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