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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WDBi Click here to enlarge
    well in that case why hasnt anyone just run no intake to turbo piping? is there a downside to just running no pipes and turbo screen
    Someone was going to try and run small cone filter right on the turbo. The front looks no problem, the back turbo where the hell do you put it. That was where it was left off on n54tech. You can't run just a screen since it won't filter anything at all... thats a recipe for disaster. The heat is not really an issue though imho.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    I want to see true fueling upgrades, injectors/pumps at a minimum. Theres definately unused potential in the N54. Granted it may not be very cost friendly, any gain is a gain.

    Even if running 100% E85 only nets 10whp or so, it will be cheaper and pay for itself just in the lower cost of E85, not to mention getting rid of pulling out my calculator every fill up lol
    Well the LPFP upgrade is out and you can probably pay hpfpupgrade.com to do the HPFP if you feel so inclined.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Someone was going to try and run small cone filter right on the turbo. The front looks no problem, the back turbo where the hell do you put it. That was where it was left off on n54tech. You can't run just a screen since it won't filter anything at all... thats a recipe for disaster. The heat is not really an issue though imho.

    Well the LPFP upgrade is out and you can probably pay hpfpupgrade.com to do the HPFP if you feel so inclined.
    Thanks
    and injectors?
    Last edited by Ak335i; 11-10-2012 at 11:22 PM.
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

  3. #28
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    ^ need to post outside quote tags

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    ^ need to post outside quote tags
    pics or it didnt happen
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    Thanks
    and injectors?
    Is there a need? (the answer to date is no, and theoretically the injectors can flow quite a lot of fuel...)

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Is there a need? (the answer to date is no, and theoretically the injectors can flow quite a lot of fuel...)
    You always come thru with the win. Sounds good, theoretically Click here to enlarge
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Is there a need? (the answer to date is no, and theoretically the injectors can flow quite a lot of fuel...)
    Problem at that RPM likely wouldn't be injector size but pressure.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WDBi Click here to enlarge
    i think our motor with some work will see 9k...
    I rememer reading aomething about 8250ish was the max these engines can rev to pretty easily

    still, i'd love to see an 8k rpm n54!

    head work isn't too expensive if you don't count the labour in removal etc. :p

    cams will be <<<1k when a company decides to make them

    hondas get cams for <$500, and they're absolutely spectacular units

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I rememer reading aomething about 8250ish was the max these engines can rev to pretty easily

    still, i'd love to see an 8k rpm n54!

    head work isn't too expensive if you don't count the labour in removal etc. :p

    cams will be <<<1k when a company decides to make them

    hondas get cams for <$500, and they're absolutely spectacular units
    Cams are not simple for BMW's and really Schrick is the only company that does them correctly.

    And 8250 easily? Heh.

  10. #35
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    From what I have seen my wish list in this mix would be to open up all the plumping issues
    Inlet Piping - currently only custom choices
    Turbo to IC - not sure if this is really needed haven't heard any complaints from any discussions
    Intake Mani - wish somebody would do something with this especially at seeing all the work that was being put into this
    Head work - well see how the numbers show on this.
    Cams - Does anybody know the current cams static specs? I'd love to see just a little more lift and possibly little bump in duration. is this a non-interference engine? usually if your starting with non interference you have a decent about of safety room.

    After all that is opened up then you can look into higher RPM's as it seems difficult to make power to redline as it is. There's plenty of other engines out there with bad rod stroke ratios that still get their engines to safely rev up, there are solutions when looking at the internals.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Cams are not simple for BMW's and really Schrick is the only company that does them correctly.

    And 8250 easily? Heh.
    Is it because of the vanos or what?
    heaps of companies have had no trouble with other VVT systems and custom cams?


    when i say easily i mean 'easily' not .. Cheap OR actually easy. Loads less work than if you wanted to hit 9000rpm lol

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Is it because of the vanos or what?
    heaps of companies have had no trouble with other VVT systems and custom cams?


    when i say easily i mean 'easily' not .. Cheap OR actually easy. Loads less work than if you wanted to hit 9000rpm lol
    Vanos is definitely part of it. Heaps of companies don't tackle BMW for a reason. It really is only Schrick. I wish it was like Gran Turismo but it isn't.

    On paper the S65 and S85 should be easy, but only Schrick has cams.

  13. #38
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    I'd love it if somebody on the forums that has a spare engine would send the cams off to cam company to get their opinion, probably also need to know the min and max settings of the cam phasing. Another problem with this is unless somebody out there makes cam blanks most companies don't want to go through the hassle of creating them from scratch without the market demand, not as desirable but given we aren't revving high and using massive lift a regrind might be a decent option to get that little extra.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Vanos is definitely part of it. Heaps of companies don't tackle BMW for a reason. It really is only Schrick. I wish it was like Gran Turismo but it isn't.

    On paper the S65 and S85 should be easy, but only Schrick has cams.
    cams shouldn't be too important, especially being FI, yeah?

    more a turbo that can push out enough air?
    I'd rather it more be like forza :p.. GT doesn't let you do thing tht you can in the real world -_-


    It's sorta like internals then, only cp-carillo do internals for the n54, if another company stepped up an undercut a bit... $$$$

    Heck, even if shrick released cams, 1000euro would get a number of nibbles i'm sure lol
    so expensive though! Bmw has the most exxy cans i've ever seen for a mass produced engine.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    I'd love it if somebody on the forums that has a spare engine would send the cams off to cam company to get their opinion, probably also need to know the min and max settings of the cam phasing. Another problem with this is unless somebody out there makes cam blanks most companies don't want to go through the hassle of creating them from scratch without the market demand, not as desirable but given we aren't revving high and using massive lift a regrind might be a decent option to get that little extra.
    I should have one on my garage floor soon... With the head off

    Hopefully...

    i could let you know when i do? Lol

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    It's sorta like internals then, only cp-carillo do internals for the n54, if another company stepped up an undercut a bit... $$$$
    It's nothing like internals.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Its about where the cost effective upgrades are. With unlimited money, sure we could tackle everything, but it just doesn't make sense to spend $20k upgrading cams, head, etc when you are still choked by the turbos. Once turbos are upgraded the main benefit to any of the cam/head type of work will be quicker spool.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's nothing like internals.

    Click here to enlarge
    i mean the fact that there's only a single company that even looks like they're going to make them...

    in that case, it's identical :/ .. i doubt anyone else's going to bother making internals

    i don't understand what's so complicated about them though?

    looking at them, they look like any old camshaft even? or is it in the specific design?

    but it's stated to be very similar to VVTI in function, and every manuf and his dog makes cams for toyota's? :/

    i'll admit, i don't know a whole ton about VANOS, but surely someone COULD make aftermarket cams for it, if they saw a profit?
    at least... schrick could make them easily for teh N54 if they decide to right? it's kinda strange they haven't already... i mean, not everyone realizes that a turbo is more important, they could have made some solid profits already by selling to people who son't know better lol

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Cams - Does anybody know the current cams static specs? I'd love to see just a little more lift and possibly little bump in duration. is this a non-interference engine? usually if your starting with non interference you have a decent about of safety room.
    I have never seen any specs on the cams. Anyone with a spare engine on a stand, a dial indicator and a degree wheel could really help us out here lol.

    I'm fairly sure the N54 is an interference engine.

    Something I've learned about VANOS is that it has a lot more room to adjust cam timing than I thought it would, HOWEVER it has very little room to make adjustments between the cams. If you advance or retard a cam the other cam will follow whether you command it to or not(i believe it to have roughly 5 of "play" as far as LSA is concerned.)
    Click here to enlarge
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I have never seen any specs on the cams. Anyone with a spare engine on a stand, a dial indicator and a degree wheel could really help us out here lol.

    I'm fairly sure the N54 is an interference engine.

    Something I've learned about VANOS is that it has a lot more room to adjust cam timing than I thought it would, HOWEVER it has very little room to make adjustments between the cams. If you advance or retard a cam the other cam will follow whether you command it to or not(i believe it to have roughly 5 of "play" as far as LSA is concerned.)
    yeah i have heard this as well cams have a bit of room to play but the difference between cams should stay the same.
    Turbo lag is the on ramp to the highway which is power.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    i mean the fact that there's only a single company that even looks like they're going to make them...

    in that case, it's identical :/ .. i doubt anyone else's going to bother making internals

    i don't understand what's so complicated about them though?

    looking at them, they look like any old camshaft even? or is it in the specific design?

    but it's stated to be very similar to VVTI in function, and every manuf and his dog makes cams for toyota's? :/

    i'll admit, i don't know a whole ton about VANOS, but surely someone COULD make aftermarket cams for it, if they saw a profit?
    at least... schrick could make them easily for teh N54 if they decide to right? it's kinda strange they haven't already... i mean, not everyone realizes that a turbo is more important, they could have made some solid profits already by selling to people who son't know better lol
    Whatever people think is whatever people think.

    Back in the day, whatever you want to take from this, I was exploring all NA options for the S65. The tuner I was talking with said there was only one company who could properly do S65 cams. That company was Schrick. I think there is a reason Schrick is pretty much the only option for aftermarket BMW cams for basically every BMW motor. If it's easy, if it's like every other motor, why is Schrick the only option? Why does it take a huge company like Schrick with essentially infinite money to do it?

    Why isn't it like LS motors and tons of companies doing it? I mean grinding a cam isn't rocket science right?

    Well, I think it isn't quite so simple. And secondly, everyone who does aftermarket cams successfully with BMW motors uses Schrick. And when Schrick releases cams, everyone pays attention. There's something to it.

    You don't just go get 9000 rpm N54 cams because you say so. If it worked as easy as that then why hasn't someone done it?

  22. #47
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    Not going to argue with any of those but when I was dealing with Evo VIII's and 350/G35's when they first came out and nobody was making anything for them it really wasn't that difficult to pick up the phone and call some of these known parts company's and get custom pistons, rods, valves, cams etc. The boss was even able to able to get aluminum rods for the EVO racecar easy enough. So some parts are easier to get than what people think and yes most things were pricey but some actually weren't that much more than off the shelf items. Never know until somebody has the cash, spare parts and the patience to start making the calls and talk somebody into it.

    As for the cams and the DME only allowing a 5 degree difference in phasing I hope somebody has done testing on that as I see than that on the Cobb tables. Haven't dealt with Cam timing in years and never on a turbo car.

    9000 on the street isn't realistic and post people on this forum aren't the give me a big turbo that doesn't bring boost in until 4500 kind of people anyway to require the extra RPM's for a decent power band that's left for the drag cars. A usuable power band ending at 7K-7.5K would bring a nice little bump in HP numbers though say anouther 40HP if it didn't fall on it's face just after 6K.

  23. #48
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    upgraded intake/turbo pipes

    upgraded twins other than RB(yes I know about Vargas but they arn't released and the more the merrier. It would be great to have 3 options)

    fancy new intake mani

    reving to 8k safely.

    Here is the problem with cams: They will cost at least $800-1200. Labor to install will be what like $600-800 depending on the shop right? So $1400-2000...might as well just buy upgraded turbos. Or you are almost 1/2 way to vargas stage 3 or the shiv's single. They would have to really help to ever make it worth while. Maybe when you are out of mods to do and reving to 8k it may make sense or racing the car where you really need to powerband shifted to the right. All of the money spent on getting aftermarket cams in the head could be put into building the engine which would be a better place to dump $ if you are going for a high hp build. I just don't see it being worth while...Course I could be wrong about all of this...

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    upgraded intake/turbo pipes

    upgraded twins other than RB(yes I know about Vargas but they arn't released and the more the merrier. It would be great to have 3 options)

    fancy new intake mani

    reving to 8k safely.

    Here is the problem with cams: They will cost at least $800-1200. Labor to install will be what like $600-800 depending on the shop right? So $1400-2000...might as well just buy upgraded turbos. Or you are almost 1/2 way to vargas stage 3 or the shiv's single. They would have to really help to ever make it worth while. Maybe when you are out of mods to do and reving to 8k it may make sense or racing the car where you really need to powerband shifted to the right. All of the money spent on getting aftermarket cams in the head could be put into building the engine which would be a better place to dump $ if you are going for a high hp build. I just don't see it being worth while...Course I could be wrong about all of this...
    With very little demand I would expect these to be $2000. I know times have changed and people arent fixing up cars like they were in the late 90's and early 00's but if the world would figure out that the N54 platforms are the next best turbo car since the Supra (sorry but screw a GTR) maybe we could get more aftermarket support. Even though people $#@! about dyno queens it would be nice to see some people with too much money to have their Dyno wars help bring product solutions that nobody else was going to pay to be designed and brought to the market. So hopefully some people will waste money on some 1000+ HP N54's.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    With very little demand I would expect these to be $2000. I know times have changed and people arent fixing up cars like they were in the late 90's and early 00's but if the world would figure out that the N54 platforms are the next best turbo car since the Supra (sorry but screw a GTR) maybe we could get more aftermarket support. Even though people $#@! about dyno queens it would be nice to see some people with too much money to have their Dyno wars help bring product solutions that nobody else was going to pay to be designed and brought to the market. So hopefully some people will waste money on some 1000+ HP N54's.
    Even more reason that they are not economical. Just turn up the boost instead. Much cheaper for proven gains.

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