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Thread: FMIC gains?

              
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    FMIC gains?

    Does any one have any 1/4 Mile ET/trap speed results before and after FMIC only? I don't care about dyno results as much as 1/4 gains. Let me know what you trapped / et'd after

    im averaging 12.0-12.2 at 114/115 (depending on launch) on the stock intercooler over the last 3 track sessions with temps varying between 60-85 ambient. what can I expect after I upgrade?
    Last edited by Ak335i; 11-06-2012 at 12:03 PM.

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    Not much if your tune can't/doesn't account for it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ATP Click here to enlarge
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    Not much if your tune can't/doesn't account for it.
    im tuned and fmic is last thing to be FBO

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    Might want to post what tune you are using.

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    FMIC will improve your traps at the strip as it'll fight off rising IATs down the 1/4 mile. With the stock FMIC, it'll get heat soaked pretty quick and given its rather inefficient at higher boost levels, you'll be hitting higher IATs. In return your timing will be pulled by the DME due to charge air temp compensations, which in turn will drop power output on the car. Aftermarket FMIC will keep that power up longer on the car without incurring heat soak as quickly as with the stock intercooler.

    The reason a retune is recommended before/after an FMIC upgrade is because without it you shouldn't push high boost far into the RPM range due to heat. With an aftermarket FMIC upgrade you can extend that boost curve keeping it higher longer while incurring a significantly lower IAT ramp up.
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    I noticed the difference right away. At the time I was just BPU with no meth.
    Tiny bit of added turbo lag and car was pulling a lot harder for longer.
    M3.
    Mazda3 that is

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    I think your get much more gains and be happier with a meth kit instead of the fmic

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    Think of a series of parts all working together to achieve the same results. In this case the IC is a compliment to the upgrades that cools incoming air needed in achieving that elusive maximum hp number goal.

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    jb4

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    FMIC isn't a "power mod" like a tune, DPs or Meth. Think of more as a "power consistency" mod. By upgrading your FMIC, you'll be able to keep your IATs lower for longer, fostering more consistent performance during "spirited" driving.
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    FMIC is a power mod. I gained 20whp from 410 to 430 on gear 3. Its a power mod since it drops back pressure and results in a cooler air charge which means denser and more air, more fuel, and more power in the same boost envelope. Your PWM will go up and you will need more fuel, again due to t he increased air mass.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    FMIC is a power mod. I gained 20whp from 410 to 430 on gear 3. Its a power mod since it drops back pressure and results in a cooler air charge which means denser and more air, more fuel, and more power in the same boost envelope. Your PWM will go up and you will need more fuel, again due to t he increased air mass.
    It's a little of both but mostly adds consistency. You are still limited by the cooling ability of air.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It's a little of both but mostly adds consistency. You are still limited by the cooling ability of air.
    Sure, but fact remains it still adds as much power as down pipes. I consider DPs a power mod so... Maybe at 14psi it isn't really a power mod, but on stock turbos at 17+psi it is definitely a power mod more than anything else.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    but fact remains it still adds as much power as down pipes
    Downpipes aren't as dependent on the weather.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    FMIC is a power mod. I gained 20whp from 410 to 430 on gear 3. Its a power mod since it drops back pressure and results in a cooler air charge which means denser and more air, more fuel, and more power in the same boost envelope. Your PWM will go up and you will need more fuel, again due to t he increased air mass.
    1st off, I'd really like to see your dyno graph that illustrates that you gained 20 WHP just from adding an FMIC. 5-10 is realistic, but specifically giving credit to an FMIC for adding 20 WHP is a HUGE overshot.

    2nd, cold air = more hp. A perfect example is that 20 HP can be gained by comparing dynos from July against November. DPs will always add 20 HP regardless of the weather, just like a tune will always add XXX HP depending on what setting your running, but power gains from an FMIC are completely dependent upon the conditions you're dealing with.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    1st off, I'd really like to see your dyno graph that illustrates that you gained 20 WHP just from adding an FMIC. 5-10 is realistic, but specifically giving credit to an FMIC for adding 20 WHP is a HUGE overshot.

    2nd, cold air = more hp. A perfect example is that 20 HP can be gained by comparing dynos from July against November. DPs will always add 20 HP regardless of the weather, just like a tune will always add XXX HP depending on what setting your running, but power gains from an FMIC are completely dependent upon the conditions you're dealing with.
    I have done hundreds of third gear logs of the car and have used virtual dyno extensively. The delta is consistently 20whp starting from no heatsoak in 70 degree weather doing 3rd gear pulls from 2000 to redline. Your results may vary based on your car and your intercooler. I am completely aware of the physics of the situation. The reality is that with no heatsoak doing 3rd gear rips with my car the minimum power add you would see was 15-20whp. It will be more than that in the longer gears and you are typically traction limited in 2nd. I didn't buy an intercooler to make my car more consistent... I bought it for the power add. To each his own...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Downpipes aren't as dependent on the weather.
    Sure. At the end of 3rd though with the stock intercooler you can count on roughly the same temperature delta and thus similar power hits. The intercooler just gives you more top end by reducing this. The benefit isn't nearly as tied to the weather as it is to the number of pulls you do back to back. I agree it adds consistency some of the time, but it also adds power all of the time. Thus, power adder. Its semantics I guess...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    Sure. At the end of 3rd though with the stock intercooler you can count on roughly the same temperature delta and thus similar power hits. The intercooler just gives you more top end by reducing this. The benefit isn't nearly as tied to the weather as it is to the number of pulls you do back to back. I agree it adds consistency some of the time, but it also adds power all of the time. Thus, power adder. Its semantics I guess...
    well I did some 3rd tto the end of 4th pulls and logs on the way to install the ER FMIC. and after the install. I feel a huge difference. stock intercooler IATs went from 91-134F on the pulls. with the ER they went 89-98F on the pulls. I had timing corrections on the stock intercooler in 4th. and with the fmic, timing was AMAZING! it's definately a power added and a consistency thing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    FMIC will improve your traps at the strip as it'll fight off rising IATs down the 1/4 mile. With the stock FMIC, it'll get heat soaked pretty quick and given its rather inefficient at higher boost levels, you'll be hitting higher IATs. In return your timing will be pulled by the DME due to charge air temp compensations, which in turn will drop power output on the car. Aftermarket FMIC will keep that power up longer on the car without incurring heat soak as quickly as with the stock intercooler.

    The reason a retune is recommended before/after an FMIC upgrade is because without it you shouldn't push high boost far into the RPM range due to heat. With an aftermarket FMIC upgrade you can extend that boost curve keeping it higher longer while incurring a significantly lower IAT ramp up.
    Exactly this..
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
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    well I did some 3rd tto the end of 4th pulls and logs on the way to install the ER FMIC. and after the install. I feel a huge difference. stock intercooler IATs went from 91-134F on the pulls. with the ER they went 89-98F on the pulls. I had timing corrections on the stock intercooler in 4th. and with the fmic, timing was AMAZING! it's definately a power added and a consistency thing.
    Awesome! You will definitely feel it in any scenario where you are not traction limited. I guess that was my point. =D

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    consistency is key

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    i saw my biggest gains with air intakes and downpipes and maybe 3whp with my IC.
    ground control coilovers/wavetrac lsd/ full m3 suspension/delrin bushings/ megan racing toe and camber arms/bmw oem performance carbon fiber front lip and rear deck spoiler/m3 strut brace/ecs SS brakelines/CPE dci's, charge pipe, catless dp, fmic/bms OCC/tuningtechfs custom tune/defiv diff lockdownkit,rbpcv valve.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TRES Click here to enlarge
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    i saw my biggest gains with air intakes and downpipes and maybe 3whp with my IC.


    Your biggest gain was with air intakes... What boost are you running? The difference in air mass between a 40 degree delta alone is more than a 3whp loss easily. I find this hard to believe. Maybe if you were running meth you would see less benefit from an IC, but still more than 3whp from back pressure drop alone.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
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    Sure. At the end of 3rd though with the stock intercooler you can count on roughly the same temperature delta and thus similar power hits. The intercooler just gives you more top end by reducing this. The benefit isn't nearly as tied to the weather as it is to the number of pulls you do back to back. I agree it adds consistency some of the time, but it also adds power all of the time. Thus, power adder. Its semantics I guess...
    It really isn't semantics as one is a cooling mod. Since it is using air to cool weather will have a far greater impact on a front mount intercooler than on downpipes which are more of a true power mod.

    Cold dense air will add power. The FMIC will be limited in hot weather to a degree downpipes won't simply because of their different functions.

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    Given that every car "should" be tuned for its LEVEL of modifications to have reliable and consistent performance all day every day, one car with the stock FMIC "should" be tuned to appropriate boost levels as to prolong the onset of heat soak and resulting timing corrections as much as possible therefore dropping boost to something more manageable by a very inefficient intercooler.

    So, adding an aftermarket (more efficient) intercooler DOES become a power mod AFTER an appropriate retune is done. Similar to what for example Cobb's OTS maps do with Stage2 vs Stage2+ or Stage1 vs. Stage1+ maps...look at the changes there and it'll tell the story of how an FMIC can be considered a power mod.

    Now, everyone has different wants/needs/requirements out of their tuning and not everyone hits the road course which can change the needs out of a tune and resulting power on any given car (e.g. a car entirely driven on the city streets, never road coursed, 1 long pull a day if that VS. a car that is heavily road coursed). Tuning outcome from these two very different conditions can be very different depending on what the customer needs the tune to do and the same applies to intercoolers. It can be a power mod but not necessarily so, depending on how/where the car is used/driven.
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