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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Weird thats what updates are for, thats why I pay $100 month so I can keep people up to date. Guess you need a lesson on how forums work as well. Honestly industrial turbos will always come first, since one of them is worth 20 sets of BMW turbos. If the people who have made deposits get impatient like 2 have already, their money is refunded the same day. Thats how a business is run. Not a guy using his deposits to buy parts, and letting everyone know once you put money down its gone. Its people like you, who make every vendor wish they didn't bother. Cheers
    Again your bashing Rob. HE is the one with turbos on cars with people enjoying them! Your only milestone is you were able to buy a pallet full of cores. Hey - understood you have a very successful business building turbos for other applications - but that doesn't mean much when you set time frames and don't meet them. You can dog Rob all you want but until you deliver what you say it doesn't mean anything more that ALL the other companies over the last few years that promised the world.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I have removed myself from this thread. I have no time nor energy for people like this. I will have a solid update soon. Thanks everyone for your patience.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I have removed myself from this thread. I have no time nor energy for people like this. I will have a solid update soon. Thanks everyone for your patience.
    What? People like this?? You are the one that attacked Rob! And NOW you are taking the high road? Funny
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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Surquhar Click here to enlarge
    Sticky did a great job of bumping this thread with the "why"
    Should we not explore why? If things can be done during construction to minimize this, the customers win don't they?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Surquhar Click here to enlarge
    Rob Beck's turbos have been out for years with a few people with smoking problems, guess what most people with stockers and a catless exhaust have the same deal.
    This isn't the first time I've seen it brought up.
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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    RB Turbos have utliized gapless/stepped ring seals since the beginning, the internals are OEM un-frankenstiened units and they simply can not be bettered either. Making the compressor seal .005" wider (about the size of a hair follicle) will not amount to a hill of beans, especially considering the condition (when apparent) is from the turbine side. What this is, is what it is... without looking deeper into further external aids anyway (which I have already considered them all but as with anything there comes a point of risk vs. cost vs. benefit).

    Also whether these conditions come from the turbo seal, or PCV, is still up in the air. I do believe dzenno has some good points that indicate that even if everything is OEM factory fresh healthy, you will still see a puff here or there while cat less. Whether that is oil from the turbo/pcv, or something DI related, I sometimes wonder especially when I hear someone telling me they do not use a drop of oil but still see intermittent smoke after going cat less. But ruling that the PCV/system is definitely not the culprit when it comes to oiling is fairly ignorant IMO. The PCV valve still sucks in too many oil vapors into the intake ports (ie. not enough baffling pre-pcv valve) and the valve cover OEM cyclonic separators can't effectively handle the job well at OEM levels let alone nearly twice those power levels (ie. when the N54 is equipped with higher power producing OEM style turbos such as RBs). I have been looking into a fix here for quite some time, one is definitely needed.

    All in all you must be reasonable in regards to your oil consumption and realize that if you are consuming 1qt per 5,000 miles on a 450+rwhp driven car always in stop and go/traffic/ constant drag pulls/etc that is really no less than AMAZING. Even 1qt per 2,000 miles is not bad. Hell BMW will tell you that 1qt per 800 miles is considered normal for a STOCK car and kick you down the line. So monitor your oil consumption. Oil does not regenerate so it is a great way to tell really what kind of health your engine as a whole is in. A turbo issue typically will result in VERY high oil consumption, it will be very evident (ie. 1qt per 500 miles). A puff here or there though although is annoying and at times an be embarrassing is typically the nature of the beast on a cat less car driven and beat on everyday, as long as there is no evidently large oil consumption rate you just have to cope or put some cats back on.

    I am not going to get tangled up in this thread, I realize I do not have a big fan club here especially from the moderator due to my lack of sponsorship. Plus I can only reply once a day and quite frankly I do not have time for it anyway- but figured some quick real talk would be helpful.

    As always, RB Turbo has a warranty that can not be rivaled, so if in the event you do condemn the turbos you know how to reach me.

    Thanks,
    Rob
    Rob, always helpful, much appreciated.

    As having bad stock turbos and can testify to the amount of oil being burned going from a good stock set, to a bad one a real oil issue wont go unnoticed. I cant say I didnt have a puff of smoke every now and then on the RBs, but from what I recall, it was rare, and only on high boost pulls. even then, it was on faintly noticable and thats only because i was testing the limits so i was careful to watch after every single pull, literally thousands. Even then with all the water/meth i used, i think what was observed was over exxagerated by the "steam" content.

    hell, the m3 has more noticable smoke/"steam" than my Rb's ever did.. FWIW..

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Surquhar Click here to enlarge
    What? People like this?? You are the one that attacked Rob! And NOW you are taking the high road? Funny
    You're wrong, Rob started out attacking Vargas pretty hard. These are comments on the issues of turbos smoking. Let's get back to that topic versus trying to turn this into another vendor spat.
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  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Surquhar Click here to enlarge
    Again your bashing Rob. HE is the one with turbos on cars with people enjoying them! Your only milestone is you were able to buy a pallet full of cores. Hey - understood you have a very successful business building turbos for other applications - but that doesn't mean much when you set time frames and don't meet them. You can dog Rob all you want but until you deliver what you say it doesn't mean anything more that ALL the other companies over the last few years that promised the world.
    Well setting timeframes and not meeting them would at least be something Rob and Vargas have in common. The only difference being Rob doing it more frequently and at greater length.

    Relax, let them bring their turbos to market and do whatever has to be done to prevent any smoking issues from presenting themselves. On all turbos, not just a "handful" ok.
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  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You're wrong, Rob started out attacking Vargas pretty hard. These are comments on the issues of turbos smoking. Let's get back to that topic versus trying to turn this into another vendor spat.
    i would view it as less of an attack, and more of a defense and fair warning/info, that the task would not/could not be completed as one vendor had claimed

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well setting timeframes and not meeting them would at least be something Rob and Vargas have in common. The only difference being Rob doing it more frequently and at greater length.
    i realize the motivation in continuing down this path;
    but its a bit one-sided, as anyone with an N54 for a good length of time can tell you, RB did take about a year to get a set up and running, but the updates were there and encompassing when posted. and as is also well known, thousands of miles and dynos were done in secret before any real information was released. And thats the difference between the 2. Sure you could say there was a backlog after that, but someone has to be first

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i would view it as less of an attack, and more of a defense and fair warning/info, that the task would not/could not be completed as one vendor had claimed
    In this thread, yes, I was referring to the entirety of it.
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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i realize the motivation in continuing down this path;
    but its a bit one-sided, as anyone with an N54 for a good length of time can tell you, RB did take about a year to get a set up and running, but the updates were there and encompassing when posted. and as is also well known, thousands of miles and dynos were done in secret before any real information was released. And thats the difference between the 2. Sure you could say there was a backlog after that, but someone has to be first
    Exactly, took a year to get up and running and most people are happy. Vargas hasn't been at it anywhere near that long yet it somehow makes sense to talk down on them for not being on the market yet? If anything their progress is far more rapid.

    People just need to let this come to fruition. In the meantime, discussion regarding the OP would be great.
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  12. #62
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    @Sticky I appreciate you having my back on this. To be honest, I think we have made progress at a very decent pace and actually would prob be close to having testing going on right now if I hadn't decided to make the changes I made. I am really quite confused as to why this is always a RB vs Vargas argument. Lets just keep it friendly and go from there. @LostMarine . I feel I have been more than upfront and encompassing with my updates. If there is something more you think I could do as far as updates, let me know. I am not opposed to it. There will another update here in the next few days, with pictures, etc. As busy as I am, my schedule has been this. Wake up at 3am, work on my actual business. Stop at around 4 pm and work on BMW stuff til around 7 or so. Step and repeat. Good things are coming for the N54, not only from us. Seems a lot of people are jumping on board. I will also post a new beta, and pre order list up as we lost a couple people who for personal whatever reason asked for their money back. Side note I am on the fence about shift sector. Who all is going?

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    im not attacking anyone, just clarifying the difference in what actually happened, to what is being stated as happened, to what IS happening, and what people are expecting to happen. good luck with everything, competiton is good.. now vargas just needs to make the jump from text to product...

    i like to equate things, and to me, this is like a GSP fight, you can pick which, a lot of them are basically the same. It took a while for GSP to actually get a title shot. he had a few setbacks in going for the title.. but boy oh boy when he got it it was awesome.. since then every challenger has been the same.. " Im bigger badder faster stronger better younger ect".. and yet once they got in the ring, they found out it wasnt just hype, he really is that good and it takes either a little luck, or a lot of skill to not get beat down badly..(notice i said "not get beat down badly", and not "win") minus a few small setbacks, GSP is still welter weight champ.. and as they say, you might be the title holder, but your not a real champion (dare i say peoples champion?) until you defend the title.. and GSP has done both

    (GSP= RB if you havent noticed Click here to enlarge )
    Last edited by LostMarine; 11-09-2012 at 02:36 AM.

  14. #64
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    In response to extensive (later edited) slams yesterday, here is a retort:

    All my initial post pertained to Vargas was in regard to their hopes to fix this type of issue. I was simply saying that by widening a seal by a hair size certainly is not the cure, especially on the compressor side where no issue exists. I also wanted to point out that the Step gaps will not do anything as noted below.

    The “Frankenstein” comment was countering questions in this thread about what I am doing right or wrong, as it is well known there are a slew of custom things that I do to make these turbos work. The point is that there are a TON of EXTERNAL steps done to make RB’s work, and nothing is changed on the INTERNALS. RB uses standard INTERNALS that are designed by the OEMs to function as intended. RB has had variants of these TD04 make well over 700HP (crank) on these same internals/shaft and bearing sizes at 25+psi, so I think we can rule that the CHRA and OEM internals are functionally fine all else being equal. It is worth noting this issue MAY happen on any N54, RB or else, as I have had calls from those running every bolt-on Turbo variant known to the N54 world including MANY OEM (some even new) asking about the issue. It is not clearly known if the issue is PCV system related or not, or if the puff even originated from a droplet of oil from a seal of the turbo or not.

    To be crystal clear: RB has provided Step Gaps on all builds since Mid-2011. There were about 15 sets sold in production before making this change, including the Prototype set which went on to break the then Standing ¼ Mile record, provide many high HP dynos, and all with catless exhaust and never an issue. This was with a higher mileage E92 that ran the RBs for about 30k miles, on the Traditional non step gap seals. There were several who post on the Forums who claimed to also not have an issue at all in that initial traditional ring batch, but there were some very vocal members who did maintain they had issues. So despite about 8 years of prior success on Traditional seals, I started using the step gap as I too had some hope that it would curb this odd issue for everyone once and for all. But the outcome was that Step Gaps made no discernible difference and thus was not worth making anything public.

    To be crystal clear #2: RB assembles these CHRA’s. There is NO way to do all the centersection machining/fabrication steps on a complete CHRA. Many operations are needed to be done to make these very large CHRA’s work with the OEM Oil and Coolant lines (CNC Lathe, Mill, Welding) and housings. You can’t just buy this combination of parts and slam it into Machined housings without a TON of work to the centersection EXTERNALS. Vargas will sidestep most all of the RB EXTERNAL operations and rather simply take the INTERNAL approach (more descriptive below on how this affects the customer). Based on research of my own from long ago, this INTERNAL route was considered but opted out of although it would’ve been cheaper to produce. However RB felt there was substantially more risk in component degradation, and also drawbacks to the end user over time (more on this below). It is RB’s belief that despite claims of being custom, Vargas’s turbine wheel of choice is actually a standard BW Fullback K03 wheel that will have some custom machine steps performed. This wheel is smaller than RB and will fit into the housing without driving Vargas into extensive housing modifications much like endured by RB, TD, and ASR (which all use native CHRA’s and OEM INTERNALS).

    Using a Step Gap Piston ring is not Frankensteining and quite the contrary it is a known standard “upgrade” component for the TD04 shaft. However turning down Turbine shafts, substantially enlarging CHRA bores (esp. on the tiny OEM TD03), and/or producing custom journal bearings is a very delicate and “one-off” type of business. Doing those types of mods leave the end user with little to NO chance of ever getting the turbo reworked without the “proprietary” Vargas components. Journal bearings are components that are ALWAYS needed in the event of a minor rebuild. This is also not even considering to what point the OEM’s R&D has been compromised by making these changes on these very critical internal components that are now transformed into “proprietary” components. Certainly Vargas will either have to machine down the Turbine shaft partially or fully (he will claim it is a proprietary wheel sized to his own specs but this is doubtful), or make the journal bearings much more thin walled and narrower than the OEM had designed for TD04 type wheels. TD04 CHRAs are slightly longer than the OEM TD03 centersections due to the bigger shaft and bearings which are designed to handle a larger load. Vargas has indicated they will provide pictures and specs in the near future, presumably showing how it all fits together and where the modifications were required. The consumer should consider the wheel sizes, shaft specs, bearing specs, and how they all compare to the tried and true TD04 when they observe this data. Then finally and just as importantly there are the real world results to follow.

    Here is a quick rundown of the above in layman terms:
    If RB croaks tomorrow: A customer still has the ability to have another shop service RBs to be as good as new. A mechanically savvy customer could also service an RB without extensive tooling. Reliance on manufacturer is less of an importance.
    If Vargas croaks tomorrow (or, in this case several months hoping that he has some amount of end users at a point): A customer will be left hoping another can convert them the rest of the way to adapt truly as a TD04 (much like TD or RB) or get some source on the customized Vargas components which could be highly unlikely. Alternatively the customer could buy several sets of Vargas’ custom rebuild parts, shafts/wheels, to ensure they are covered through a rebuild in the event Vargas no longer supports the product or falls off the glove for whatever reason. Or be left with a nice boat anchor.

    It is interesting that Vargas can say with certainty that RB never did mention step gaps, as he now has indicated that he conclusively has read everything I have ever written; obviously to copy whatever he could to aid in his endeavor. RB has noticed this plagiarism in some of Vargas writings, but it now has been confirmed that he has thoroughly went through it all (and there is a TON). Vargas is correct in that RB never publicly mentioned it as ultimately it made no difference and was thus irrelevant. Some RB customers are aware of the change, although RB wouldn’t hesitate to switch back as it mattered not.

    RB now realizes and fully understand Vargas’s point a few months ago about how this is not their first rodeo and how they know everything there is to know about upgrades such as this, as they have been done for years and they have done thousands. This explains why it all has unfairly come so natural for Vargas, it truly has been a cake walk just as expected. It also explains why they have such a name in other modern day performance based platforms. Vargas’s great superiority in knowledge and vast connections has highly been represented by their ability to uphold a promise of mid-September shipments allocating only 2 weeks before starting the project. Vargas also needed to not review anything from any competitor, as they knew it all along. RB regrets giving advice to Vargas about how the project would take a lot more time and cost more to produce. It is very clear that Vargas knew it all in hindsight. RB understands and accepts all the grief he got for his prejudgments as well. RB should have never let his jealousy, enviousness, and fear of competition stand in the way of such a great intellectual mind and with these unrivaled capabilities.

    Ok. I am done now. OP, let me know if you need anything.

    Later,
    Rob

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    How does one "check" the PCV system?

    I'm having smoking issues with my stock turbos. Happens when I'm just cruising around the city with some engine breaking. Recently uninstalled the RB valve and it smoked again.

    Also, I think I may have excessive turbo gurgle. It pretty much gurgles every time I press my clutch while changing gears slowly.
    How does one "check" the PCV system?

    I'm having smoking issues with my stock turbos. Happens when I'm just cruising around the city with some engine breaking. Recently uninstalled the RB valve and it smoked again.

    Also, I think I may have excessive turbo gurgle. It pretty much gurgles every time I press my clutch while changing gears slowly.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech;
    There will another update here in the next few days, with pictures, etc.
    sweeeet Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    How does one "check" the PCV system?
    There's a procedure followed by dealer techs in checking it. AFAIK it involves hooking up some form of a vacuum/pressure gauge at the back of the valve cover where the outlet to the rear intake pipes goes and measuring it at possibly idle and certain other RPMs. Don't quote me in entirety about this but it should be pretty close. @Itsbrokeagain, any detail there?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    In response to extensive (later edited) slams yesterday, here is a retort:

    All my initial post pertained to Vargas was in regard to their hopes to fix this type of issue. I was simply saying that by widening a seal by a hair size certainly is not the cure, especially on the compressor side where no issue exists. I also wanted to point out that the Step gaps will not do anything as noted below.

    The “Frankenstein” comment was countering questions in this thread about what I am doing right or wrong, as it is well known there are a slew of custom things that I do to make these turbos work. The point is that there are a TON of EXTERNAL steps done to make RB’s work, and nothing is changed on the INTERNALS. RB uses standard INTERNALS that are designed by the OEMs to function as intended. RB has had variants of these TD04 make well over 700HP (crank) on these same internals/shaft and bearing sizes at 25+psi, so I think we can rule that the CHRA and OEM internals are functionally fine all else being equal. It is worth noting this issue MAY happen on any N54, RB or else, as I have had calls from those running every bolt-on Turbo variant known to the N54 world including MANY OEM (some even new) asking about the issue. It is not clearly known if the issue is PCV system related or not, or if the puff even originated from a droplet of oil from a seal of the turbo or not.

    To be crystal clear: RB has provided Step Gaps on all builds since Mid-2011. There were about 15 sets sold in production before making this change, including the Prototype set which went on to break the then Standing ¼ Mile record, provide many high HP dynos, and all with catless exhaust and never an issue. This was with a higher mileage E92 that ran the RBs for about 30k miles, on the Traditional non step gap seals. There were several who post on the Forums who claimed to also not have an issue at all in that initial traditional ring batch, but there were some very vocal members who did maintain they had issues. So despite about 8 years of prior success on Traditional seals, I started using the step gap as I too had some hope that it would curb this odd issue for everyone once and for all. But the outcome was that Step Gaps made no discernible difference and thus was not worth making anything public.

    To be crystal clear #2: RB assembles these CHRA’s. There is NO way to do all the centersection machining/fabrication steps on a complete CHRA. Many operations are needed to be done to make these very large CHRA’s work with the OEM Oil and Coolant lines (CNC Lathe, Mill, Welding) and housings. You can’t just buy this combination of parts and slam it into Machined housings without a TON of work to the centersection EXTERNALS. Vargas will sidestep most all of the RB EXTERNAL operations and rather simply take the INTERNAL approach (more descriptive below on how this affects the customer). Based on research of my own from long ago, this INTERNAL route was considered but opted out of although it would’ve been cheaper to produce. However RB felt there was substantially more risk in component degradation, and also drawbacks to the end user over time (more on this below). It is RB’s belief that despite claims of being custom, Vargas’s turbine wheel of choice is actually a standard BW Fullback K03 wheel that will have some custom machine steps performed. This wheel is smaller than RB and will fit into the housing without driving Vargas into extensive housing modifications much like endured by RB, TD, and ASR (which all use native CHRA’s and OEM INTERNALS).

    Using a Step Gap Piston ring is not Frankensteining and quite the contrary it is a known standard “upgrade” component for the TD04 shaft. However turning down Turbine shafts, substantially enlarging CHRA bores (esp. on the tiny OEM TD03), and/or producing custom journal bearings is a very delicate and “one-off” type of business. Doing those types of mods leave the end user with little to NO chance of ever getting the turbo reworked without the “proprietary” Vargas components. Journal bearings are components that are ALWAYS needed in the event of a minor rebuild. This is also not even considering to what point the OEM’s R&D has been compromised by making these changes on these very critical internal components that are now transformed into “proprietary” components. Certainly Vargas will either have to machine down the Turbine shaft partially or fully (he will claim it is a proprietary wheel sized to his own specs but this is doubtful), or make the journal bearings much more thin walled and narrower than the OEM had designed for TD04 type wheels. TD04 CHRAs are slightly longer than the OEM TD03 centersections due to the bigger shaft and bearings which are designed to handle a larger load. Vargas has indicated they will provide pictures and specs in the near future, presumably showing how it all fits together and where the modifications were required. The consumer should consider the wheel sizes, shaft specs, bearing specs, and how they all compare to the tried and true TD04 when they observe this data. Then finally and just as importantly there are the real world results to follow.

    Here is a quick rundown of the above in layman terms:
    If RB croaks tomorrow: A customer still has the ability to have another shop service RBs to be as good as new. A mechanically savvy customer could also service an RB without extensive tooling. Reliance on manufacturer is less of an importance.
    If Vargas croaks tomorrow (or, in this case several months hoping that he has some amount of end users at a point): A customer will be left hoping another can convert them the rest of the way to adapt truly as a TD04 (much like TD or RB) or get some source on the customized Vargas components which could be highly unlikely. Alternatively the customer could buy several sets of Vargas’ custom rebuild parts, shafts/wheels, to ensure they are covered through a rebuild in the event Vargas no longer supports the product or falls off the glove for whatever reason. Or be left with a nice boat anchor.

    It is interesting that Vargas can say with certainty that RB never did mention step gaps, as he now has indicated that he conclusively has read everything I have ever written; obviously to copy whatever he could to aid in his endeavor. RB has noticed this plagiarism in some of Vargas writings, but it now has been confirmed that he has thoroughly went through it all (and there is a TON). Vargas is correct in that RB never publicly mentioned it as ultimately it made no difference and was thus irrelevant. Some RB customers are aware of the change, although RB wouldn’t hesitate to switch back as it mattered not.

    RB now realizes and fully understand Vargas’s point a few months ago about how this is not their first rodeo and how they know everything there is to know about upgrades such as this, as they have been done for years and they have done thousands. This explains why it all has unfairly come so natural for Vargas, it truly has been a cake walk just as expected. It also explains why they have such a name in other modern day performance based platforms. Vargas’s great superiority in knowledge and vast connections has highly been represented by their ability to uphold a promise of mid-September shipments allocating only 2 weeks before starting the project. Vargas also needed to not review anything from any competitor, as they knew it all along. RB regrets giving advice to Vargas about how the project would take a lot more time and cost more to produce. It is very clear that Vargas knew it all in hindsight. RB understands and accepts all the grief he got for his prejudgments as well. RB should have never let his jealousy, enviousness, and fear of competition stand in the way of such a great intellectual mind and with these unrivaled capabilities.

    Ok. I am done now. OP, let me know if you need anything.

    Later,
    Rob
    Thanks Rob. I appreciate all the help you have given me. Rob answered his email about a half an hour after I wrote it. He helped me and answered my questions. I would recommend his products to anybody and they are worth every penny. My numbers and everybody else who has rb turbos installed numbers speak for themselves. As stated in my orginal post I did not want this to turn into a bashing thread. It was just a general question for other owners of rb turbos. I dont know why vargas turbos had to come in here. I have my opinions about him and his turbos and I will just take the high road and keep them to myself.
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    2007 e90 335 6at Rb turbos, Fbo, meth 11.7 at 124mph 17psi 93 and meth. Sold

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    In response to extensive (later edited) slams yesterday, here is a retort:

    All my initial post pertained to Vargas was in regard to their hopes to fix this type of issue. I was simply saying that by widening a seal by a hair size certainly is not the cure, especially on the compressor side where no issue exists. I also wanted to point out that the Step gaps will not do anything as noted below.

    The “Frankenstein” comment was countering questions in this thread about what I am doing right or wrong, as it is well known there are a slew of custom things that I do to make these turbos work. The point is that there are a TON of EXTERNAL steps done to make RB’s work, and nothing is changed on the INTERNALS. RB uses standard INTERNALS that are designed by the OEMs to function as intended. RB has had variants of these TD04 make well over 700HP (crank) on these same internals/shaft and bearing sizes at 25+psi, so I think we can rule that the CHRA and OEM internals are functionally fine all else being equal. It is worth noting this issue MAY happen on any N54, RB or else, as I have had calls from those running every bolt-on Turbo variant known to the N54 world including MANY OEM (some even new) asking about the issue. It is not clearly known if the issue is PCV system related or not, or if the puff even originated from a droplet of oil from a seal of the turbo or not.

    To be crystal clear: RB has provided Step Gaps on all builds since Mid-2011. There were about 15 sets sold in production before making this change, including the Prototype set which went on to break the then Standing ¼ Mile record, provide many high HP dynos, and all with catless exhaust and never an issue. This was with a higher mileage E92 that ran the RBs for about 30k miles, on the Traditional non step gap seals. There were several who post on the Forums who claimed to also not have an issue at all in that initial traditional ring batch, but there were some very vocal members who did maintain they had issues. So despite about 8 years of prior success on Traditional seals, I started using the step gap as I too had some hope that it would curb this odd issue for everyone once and for all. But the outcome was that Step Gaps made no discernible difference and thus was not worth making anything public.

    To be crystal clear #2: RB assembles these CHRA’s. There is NO way to do all the centersection machining/fabrication steps on a complete CHRA. Many operations are needed to be done to make these very large CHRA’s work with the OEM Oil and Coolant lines (CNC Lathe, Mill, Welding) and housings. You can’t just buy this combination of parts and slam it into Machined housings without a TON of work to the centersection EXTERNALS. Vargas will sidestep most all of the RB EXTERNAL operations and rather simply take the INTERNAL approach (more descriptive below on how this affects the customer). Based on research of my own from long ago, this INTERNAL route was considered but opted out of although it would’ve been cheaper to produce. However RB felt there was substantially more risk in component degradation, and also drawbacks to the end user over time (more on this below). It is RB’s belief that despite claims of being custom, Vargas’s turbine wheel of choice is actually a standard BW Fullback K03 wheel that will have some custom machine steps performed. This wheel is smaller than RB and will fit into the housing without driving Vargas into extensive housing modifications much like endured by RB, TD, and ASR (which all use native CHRA’s and OEM INTERNALS).

    Using a Step Gap Piston ring is not Frankensteining and quite the contrary it is a known standard “upgrade” component for the TD04 shaft. However turning down Turbine shafts, substantially enlarging CHRA bores (esp. on the tiny OEM TD03), and/or producing custom journal bearings is a very delicate and “one-off” type of business. Doing those types of mods leave the end user with little to NO chance of ever getting the turbo reworked without the “proprietary” Vargas components. Journal bearings are components that are ALWAYS needed in the event of a minor rebuild. This is also not even considering to what point the OEM’s R&D has been compromised by making these changes on these very critical internal components that are now transformed into “proprietary” components. Certainly Vargas will either have to machine down the Turbine shaft partially or fully (he will claim it is a proprietary wheel sized to his own specs but this is doubtful), or make the journal bearings much more thin walled and narrower than the OEM had designed for TD04 type wheels. TD04 CHRAs are slightly longer than the OEM TD03 centersections due to the bigger shaft and bearings which are designed to handle a larger load. Vargas has indicated they will provide pictures and specs in the near future, presumably showing how it all fits together and where the modifications were required. The consumer should consider the wheel sizes, shaft specs, bearing specs, and how they all compare to the tried and true TD04 when they observe this data. Then finally and just as importantly there are the real world results to follow.

    Here is a quick rundown of the above in layman terms:
    If RB croaks tomorrow: A customer still has the ability to have another shop service RBs to be as good as new. A mechanically savvy customer could also service an RB without extensive tooling. Reliance on manufacturer is less of an importance.
    If Vargas croaks tomorrow (or, in this case several months hoping that he has some amount of end users at a point): A customer will be left hoping another can convert them the rest of the way to adapt truly as a TD04 (much like TD or RB) or get some source on the customized Vargas components which could be highly unlikely. Alternatively the customer could buy several sets of Vargas’ custom rebuild parts, shafts/wheels, to ensure they are covered through a rebuild in the event Vargas no longer supports the product or falls off the glove for whatever reason. Or be left with a nice boat anchor.

    It is interesting that Vargas can say with certainty that RB never did mention step gaps, as he now has indicated that he conclusively has read everything I have ever written; obviously to copy whatever he could to aid in his endeavor. RB has noticed this plagiarism in some of Vargas writings, but it now has been confirmed that he has thoroughly went through it all (and there is a TON). Vargas is correct in that RB never publicly mentioned it as ultimately it made no difference and was thus irrelevant. Some RB customers are aware of the change, although RB wouldn’t hesitate to switch back as it mattered not.

    RB now realizes and fully understand Vargas’s point a few months ago about how this is not their first rodeo and how they know everything there is to know about upgrades such as this, as they have been done for years and they have done thousands. This explains why it all has unfairly come so natural for Vargas, it truly has been a cake walk just as expected. It also explains why they have such a name in other modern day performance based platforms. Vargas’s great superiority in knowledge and vast connections has highly been represented by their ability to uphold a promise of mid-September shipments allocating only 2 weeks before starting the project. Vargas also needed to not review anything from any competitor, as they knew it all along. RB regrets giving advice to Vargas about how the project would take a lot more time and cost more to produce. It is very clear that Vargas knew it all in hindsight. RB understands and accepts all the grief he got for his prejudgments as well. RB should have never let his jealousy, enviousness, and fear of competition stand in the way of such a great intellectual mind and with these unrivaled capabilities.

    Ok. I am done now. OP, let me know if you need anything.

    Later,
    Rob
    Here we go again, THE GREAT ROB BECK, the inventor of the hyrbrid turbocharger, telling everyone in the GIGANTIC N54 community how his turbos have changed the world from HIS GARAGE. Yes I have more turbocharger knowledge than you do, had more when I was 18, we have been in business close to 40 years, how about you. Great you took a stock TD04 CHRA and adapted it to a TD03, HOLY CRAP STOP THE PRESSES! If you think a stock TD04 CHRA cannot be improved upon you are not only misinformed you are an idiot. Please Please show me my plagerism I would love to see it. I have learned SO much from reading about a dude from the midwest building some turbos in his garage. Its actually pretty funny, 2 of the biggest BMW aftermarket and performance parts companies have now approached me saying its nice to have a real company making turbo upgrades for this platform as they just could not work with RB because they felt it was not a real business, and run poorly. These aren't my words, these are theirs. Bottom line you used an inherently flawed MHI design and your turbos smoke. DEAL WITH IT.


    Yes as I moved along I found out some things and decided to change a few things here and there. It took you a year to bring out your INCREDIBLE life changing turbos, I'll do it under 4 months. The way you go back and forth seriously from nice to weird its not really funny, more sad. I can imagine how much this was eating you up having to wait a day to write 6 paragraphs. Maybe you should stop being so CHEAP and pony up a $100 bucks a month to support a community that pays your bills. I mean if I had a company making a product similar to mine for a better price and that product was what paid for my entire life out of my garage, shoot I would be doing everything in my power to bad mouth them as well. You might have to find a real job again once you run out of cores. You did say they were limited right? Weird I found over 400 with a couple phones calls in my network. This is what separates me from you. Everyone learns when they are doing something, difference is. My learning is 10 times shorter than yours because I actually have people I work with in the industry who can make me parts and supply me with what I need. You can bad mouth me all you want. I really don't care, honestly like 5 people in this community make it unbearable for everyone else. I am very close to eating this 30 grand throwing all this stuff in a dumpster and going back to dealing with people in the industrial industry who actually understand how a real business is run. You will never understand what it takes to run a business that sells turbochargers for $40,000 each. You couldn't fit them in your garage. If my turbos are garbage, why are you so worried about it? You build and I used the term "build" very loosely, ONE turbocharger. That's it ONE, but you think you know it all. Hey man, that small pond big fish syndrome can be quite addicting. And people, Robs idiotic comparison about people croaking, is just that. Yes Rob if you croak guess what there is no RB. Cause its you and your garage!! If I croak, our business keeps on running, why because its a business, with more than one employee. Honestly people, you want your money back. You all have my number. Call me, my office manager, yes we have an office. Will send you a check that day. We don't rely on deposits to buy parts and make a living, thats why we offer refunds on deposits. You have to be really gunshy of someone who takes a deposit and wont give it back if you change your mind. You know what that means dont you. It means he used it on rent, and groceries, and parts so he doesnt have it to give back. Rob made a turbocharger that works, thats it. Its not even ground breaking, it works, Period. You want to buy RB's, buy RB's. It honestly will not hurt my feelings nor hurt my bottom line. Everyone take care. I'll update when I can. I got a bunch of parts in the mail today, but honestly I don't even feel like opening the boxes til monday. I'll get something up next week.
    Last edited by Tony@VargasTurboTech; 11-09-2012 at 11:11 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Here we go again, THE GREAT ROB BECK, the inventor of the hyrbrid turbochargers Telling everyone in the GIGANTIC N54 community how his turbos have changed the world from HIS GARAGE. Yes I have more turbocharger knowledge than you do, had more when I was 18, we have been in business close to 40 years, how about you. Great you took a stock TD04 CHRA and adapted it to a TD03, HOLY CRAP STOP THE PRESSES! If you think a stock TD04 CHRA cannot be improved upon you are not only misinformed you are an idiot. Please Please show me my plagerism I would love to see it. I have learned SO much from reading about a dude from the midwest building some turbos in his garage. Its actually pretty funny, 2 of the biggest BMW aftermarket and performance parts companies have now approached me saying its nice to have a real company making turbo upgrades for this platform as they just could not work with RB because they felt it was not a real business, and run poorly. These aren't my words, these are theirs. Bottom line you used an inherently flaw MHI design and your turbos smoke. DEAL WITH IT.


    Yes as I moved along I found out some things and decided to change a few things here and there. It took you a year to bring out your INCREDIBLE life changing turbos, I'll do it under 4 months. The way you go back and forth seriously from nice to weird its not really funny, more sad. I can imagine how much this was eating you up having to wait a day to write 6 paragraphs. Maybe you should stop being so CHEAP and pony up a $100 bucks a month to support a community that pays your bills. I mean if I had a company, making a product similar to mine for a better price and that product was what paid for my entire life out of my garage, shoot I would be doing everything in my power to bad mouth them as well. You might have to find a real job again once you run out of cores. You did say they were limited right? Weird I found over 400 with a couple phones calls in my network. This is what separates me from you. Everyone learns when they are doing something, difference is. My learning is 10 times shorter than yours because I actually have people I work with in the industry who can make me parts and supply me with what I need. You can bad mouth me all you want. I really don't care, honestly like 5 people in this community make it unbearable for everyone else. I am very close to eating this 30 grand throwing all this stuff in a dumpster and going back to dealing with people in the industrial industry who actually understand how a real business is run. You will never understand what it takes to run a business that sells turbochargers for $40,000 each. You couldn't fit them in your garage. If my turbos are garbage, why are you so worried about it? You build and I used the term "build" very loosely, ONE turbocharger. That's it ONE, but you think you know it all. Hey man, that small pond big fish syndrome can be quite addicting. And people, Robs idiotic comparison about people croaking, is just that. Yes Rob if you croak guess what there is no RB. Cause its you and your garage!! If I croak, our business keeps on running, why because its a business, with more than one employee. Honestly people, you want your money back. You all have my number. Call me, my office manager, yes we have an office. Will send you a check that day. We don't rely on deposits to buy parts and make a living, thats why we offer refunds on deposits. You have to be really gunshy of someone who takes a deposit and wont give it back if you change your mind. You know what that means dont you. It means he used it on rent, and groceries, and parts so he doesnt have it to give back. Rob made a turbocharger that works, thats it. Its not even ground breaking it works, Period. You want to buy RB's, buy RB's. It honestly will not hurt my feelings nor hurt my bottom line. Everyone take care. I'll update when I can. I got a bunch of parts in the mail today, but honestly I don't even feel like opening the boxes til monday. I'll get something up next week.
    Not to be a ahole but why are you even in this thread. It said Rb turbos not Vargas. So as much as you cry that rob argues with you, most of the time you bring it on yourself. For example being in a Rb tread. Not to bash but robs products numbers speak for themselves. All I see from you is useless updates saying you have mad no progress. I am not one sided just I hope your products put down great power and wish you nothing but success. But until you have actual numbers just give it a rest
    07 e92 335i 6spd FBO for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by litz4244 Click here to enlarge
    Not to be a ahole but why are you even in this thread. It said Rb turbos not Vargas. So as much as you cry that rob argues with you, most of the time you bring it on yourself. For example being in a Rb tread. Not to bash but robs products numbers speak for themselves. All I see from you is useless updates saying you have mad no progress. I am not one sided just I hope your products put down great power and wish you nothing but success. But until you have actual numbers just give it a rest
    He's a vendor and can post wherever the hell he wants and his turbos were brought up. A better question would be why Rob as a guest vendor ever went in any Vargas threads.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He's a vendor and can post wherever the hell he wants and his turbos were brought up. A better question would be why Rob as a guest vendor ever went in any Vargas threads.
    Your right he can post wherever he wants. I don't care who pays to be a vender here or not but he wants to complain about rob coming into to his threads then does the same. It's called take the high road and let your products speak for themselves. I am honestly surprised how rob attacked him and its childish. But for him to complain about it and then do the same thing. Come on.
    07 e92 335i 6spd FBO for now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by litz4244 Click here to enlarge
    I don't care who pays to be a vender here or not
    I certainly do and vendors don't pay to get bashed by someone who just wants to piggyback off others exposure to sell his product. Vargas is going about it the right way, Rob isn't.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by litz4244 Click here to enlarge
    It's called take the high road and let your products speak for themselves. I am honestly surprised how rob attacked him and its childish.
    Agreed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by litz4244 Click here to enlarge
    But for him to complain about it and then do the same thing. Come on.
    He should complain about it, guest vendor crapping all over him? The RB turbos are in the past, nice little run. Time to move on and move forward with more competitive options and at the end of the day you all win.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I am very close to eating this 30 grand throwing all this stuff in a dumpster and going back to dealing with people in the industrial industry who actually understand how a real business is run.
    To be honest, as a potential customer, this statement worries me.

    I'm not going to be taking sides with either Vargas or RB, because both of you have had your fair share of issues arguing in each other's threads that was un-called for. Let's just grow up a little bit guys.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90Company Click here to enlarge
    To be honest, as a potential customer, this statement worries me.

    I'm not going to be taking sides with either Vargas or RB, because both of you have had your fair share of issues arguing in each other's threads that was un-called for. Let's just grow up a little bit guys.
    He's just frustrated and no used to how big of a bunch of babies most of you all. Always screaming, crying, fighting, and crapping your pants.

    Takes some thick skin to not let the forum nonsense get to you in the BMW world. Just let them do their thing, I'm sure he's not the first vendor to want to say $#@! it out of the frustration many of you cause. Not you specifically, general terms.
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