Close

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 76 to 88 of 88
  1. #76
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,727
    Rep Points
    31,540.7
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M33 Click here to enlarge
    We'll see what you have to say then .
    Please, tell me more.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    4,198
    Rep Points
    1,800.2
    Mentioned
    102 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    19


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Let's stay on topic & not fall for the troll bait -- This is probably some of the best dyno analysis/discussion I've seen on any of the BMW forums
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,727
    Rep Points
    31,540.7
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Let's stay on topic & not fall for the troll bait -- This is probably some of the best dyno analysis/discussion I've seen on any of the BMW forums
    He's removed from the thread, don't worry about it. Not going to let him ruin a great thread.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    289
    Rep Points
    1,038.2
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    11


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Ok,

    so I especially drove today with our supercharged car with this thread in mind.

    You see, modifying our cars is not solely about racing others. It's primary for 99% of people to enjoy the thrill of more power and therefore G Force... on the road safely.

    What does a bigger wider power band actually give you in the real world?

    Few examples:

    1) Coming out of a junction in 2nd gear, being at around 3000rpm and planting the throttle. Car with wider power band will instantly accelerate much harder.
    2) Joining a slip road at 60mph, dropping down to 3rd at around 5000rpm, planting it... instant power, brutal acceleration.

    That middle mid and upper midrange are so important in every day driving and thrill seeking.

    Now, let's look at a car with the total opposite power band to these supercharged cars. A bone stock E60 M5. Low end torque is not really that much, response of the engine is not at all great down there. You are always finding yourself shifting down to get into the narrow 6000-8000 rpm power band (over 8000rpm the power plateaus to 8250rpm red line).
    It's rather frustrating if you want to go quick.
    In comparison the E39 M5 in bone stock format has 100hp less but has an undurstable torque curve upto 6000rpm. It delivers more torque and ease of acceleration without having to find the power band is so much easier.

    The E39 M5 vs E60 M5 is a much much bigger different in peak power than ESS vs AA scenario yet you drive both and the difference is massive and very much in favour of the E39 M5.
    However, modify the E39 M5 to around 480hp (we have 2 of these done now), they equal the E60 in top end acceleration (weight difference) but the E39 is way way more versatile still.
    I own both E39 M5 and E60 M5 also.

    An even better example than this is the E39 M5 vs E92 M3. Both have approx 400hp. One has way way more torque than the other. The E92 M3 has the upper hand with more revs and around a realistic 20hp advantage.
    This is almost a perfect comparison for the ESS vs AA.
    Which is the faster on the road? The E39 is way quicker despite being heavier, point to point. In a drag race using full rpm's the E92 just about has the edge. The different is however not as big as you might want it to be.

    What are we looking at here? An average of 20hp top end power difference? Out of a potential 600hp? HA! I'm afraid to say when you put things into real world contexts and the reality is so so different from just the peak number on a dyno graph.

    Just another angle. Maybe a little extreme but the E39 vs E92 example should really hit home for those who have owned or driven both in good examples.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,727
    Rep Points
    31,540.7
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Which is the faster on the road? The E39 is way quicker despite being heavier, point to point. In a drag race using full rpm's the E92 just about has the edge.
    It definitely has an edge especially the DCT.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Just another angle. Maybe a little extreme but the E39 vs E92 example should really hit home for those who have owned or driven both in good examples.
    I never struggled with an E39 with my E92 and let's not forget the E92 is a bit lighter as well. I understand your point though.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    289
    Rep Points
    1,038.2
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    11


    Reputation: Yes | No
    We have to compare manual vs manual here as the gearing is so close and we are trying to compare power bands.

    The majority of tuned E39's are not even producing stock figures. Take a low mileage E39 with setup cam timing and hardly any carbon build up and then it's a fair comparison.

    One has way more torque, the other has min 20hp on top and more revs to use.

    It is such a good example.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,727
    Rep Points
    31,540.7
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    We have to compare manual vs manual here as the gearing is so close and we are trying to compare power bands.

    The majority of tuned E39's are not even producing stock figures. Take a low mileage E39 with setup cam timing and hardly any carbon build up and then it's a fair comparison.

    One has way more torque, the other has min 20hp on top and more revs to use.

    It is such a good example.
    Yes it's a good example but in this example the top end HP wins if it is a drag race or roll on race. If they were equal weight it might be better.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    289
    Rep Points
    1,038.2
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    11


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Very 1 dimensional - flat out race comparisons.

    E60 M5 kills and E39 in a race.

    Real world everyday driving - E60 is frustrating in comparison.

    There is so much more to life than flat out racing and peak HP.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,727
    Rep Points
    31,540.7
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by evolve Click here to enlarge
    Real world everyday driving - E60 is frustrating in comparison.

    There is so much more to life than flat out racing and peak HP.
    Winning is winning:

    Click here to enlarge

    The E60 M5 doesn't have less torque than the E39.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    177
    Rep Points
    213.5
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    he said about 30hp by spraying water on it. if i had a heat exchanger, i would test it. I know it was a trick on a few previous platforms ive had as well
    No way it makes 30hp, I've done it on the dyno with 3 supercharged M3's.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    No way it makes 30hp, I've done it on the dyno with 3 supercharged M3's.
    just stating what i read and was told

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    6
    Rep Points
    8.6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    FI'd like to see a VT2-625 ESS tuned by sal@evolve overlayed with a VT2-625 ESS tuned by ESS.I believe that part of the difference between the dynos in the midrange is not only due to supercharger compressor map differences, it is also due to the tuning perfection.


    anyone with an E92 M3 ESS ready to take it to sal@evolve and do a pre and post dyno and show it here ?? This is very crucial and interesting information. There are a few threads here and there about ESS cars tuned by evolve and that are producing more power in the midrange and up top and with a smoother power delivery. Awaiting this information anxiously

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    289
    Rep Points
    1,038.2
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    11


    Reputation: Yes | No
    haha!! Thanks for your vote of confidence!

    I'm cannot do majic though Click here to enlarge

    The most anyone could do is alter the cam overlap but that's not going to make that much difference. It cannot make up for the massive difference in air flow in the midrange.
    Right now, no SC S65 competitor cars will be tuned otherwise all manner of accusations will start flying out there about how we 'copied' the tuning. We already have a competitor who is stupid enough to think we copy his stuff and everytime we make more power than his tuning. Silly Muppet.

    We are tuning a surprising number of SC E46's though and getting some impressive gains from going more conservative on the tuning. But that's another story.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •