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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, depending at what speed you start at you will likely want a bit more than just 7000-8300:
    Yeah you right it's more like 6000-8300rpm that you need the right power for straigh-line or circuit racing (yes you redline around a circuit too).

    Starting speed, we have 2 scenario's. Standing start or rolling start. Standing you start in 1st gear, with LC around 4500rpm. Largely irrelevant as traction is going to be a problem. some of the FWD's we have some records with, we detuned the mid-range so that launch control results in less wheelspin.

    Ok rolling start, you commence the race at a specific rpm but only for that gear. Once you redline that gear & upshift, you will be at high rpm for the rest of the race. So the trick is to race as high an rpm as you can. Even if you almost buzzing the limiter. I have seen plenty of those M5board videos on the airfield & seen the M cars running boosted cars & they rolling in 2nd gear at medium rpm & as soon as the race starts the M car is toast. Like a 335 against a supercharged M3 & as soon as the race starts the M3 is like 4 cars behind & struggling to gain. Gotta approach the cones in 1st gear & stay up into the powerband.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, depending at what speed you start at you will likely want a bit more than just 7000-8300:
    Yeah you right it's more like 6000-8300rpm that you need the right power for straigh-line or circuit racing (yes you redline around a circuit too).

    Starting speed, we have 2 scenario's. Standing start or rolling start. Standing you start in 1st gear, with LC around 4500rpm. Largely irrelevant as traction is going to be a problem. some of the FWD's we have some records with, we detuned the mid-range so that launch control results in less wheelspin. But you launch, you redline 1st gear, & from that point on you at high rpm for the rest of the race.

    Ok rolling start, you commence the race at a specific rpm but only for that gear. Once you redline that gear & upshift, you will be at high rpm for the rest of the race. So the trick is to race as high an rpm as you can. Even if you almost buzzing the limiter. I have seen plenty of those M5board videos on the airfield & seen the M cars running boosted cars & they rolling in 2nd gear at medium rpm & as soon as the race starts the M car is toast. Like a 335 against a supercharged M3 & as soon as the race starts the M3 is like 4 cars behind & struggling to gain. Gotta approach the cones in 1st gear & stay up into the powerband.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    Standing you start in 1st gear, with LC around 4500rpm. Largely irrelevant as traction is going to be a problem.
    It's only irrelevant if traction is your problem but that's a problem stock as well. Good drag radials and you can do 6200 rpm launches.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    So the trick is to race as high an rpm as you can.
    Yes of course but in lower gears the RPM drop is going to be more pronounced on shifts and you can never get around this.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's only irrelevant if traction is your problem but that's a problem stock as well. Good drag radials and you can do 6200 rpm launches.
    Yes you 100% right. If you can get traction then the only time more mid-range will help is in 1st gear at the launch. You can cut a better 60ft if you have more mid-range & can use it.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    Yes you 100% right. If you can get traction then the only time more mid-range will help is in 1st gear at the launch. You can cut a better 60ft if you have more mid-range & can use it.
    Agreed except it will help in second and third as well then be mitigated the higher you go.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  6. #31
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    Great discussion! Sticky actually beat me to the punch of posting gear ratios on the DCT. Once again, I think I can kind of see pros/cons but these are all just assumptions and theories. I'd love to see in actuality what the difference would be racing from a roll, or maybe there really won't be much of a difference.

    One scenario:
    DCT, roll from 40mph. Would it be safe to say the race would start in 2nd gear at around 5000RPM? Seeing how most of those graphs show the AA kit having more power/torque at that area of the power curve, it could be expected that the AA car would get the jump and continue pulling hard. What I wonder is if the incredible top end of the ESS kit will be enough to real them in and take lead....

    Another scenario:
    DCT, roll from 60mph. Would it be safe to say the race would start in 2nd gear somewhere around 7500RPM? Seeing how the ESS kit has the advantage at the top end, I can see that car getting the jump and continuing to pull away. In this case, would the strong midrange and lower redline help the AA car catch up?.....

    Again...100% hypothetical. I would love to see this in reality. Once again, we come full circle to that both kits have their pros/cons, it's matter of weighing what's more important to the client or not. Different strokes for different folks. Click here to enlarge

    Sidenote: For what it's worth, in the tracks that I go to, I spend some good time in the 4000-6000RPM as well braking into corners and exiting, at least in my E46 M3. Powerband usage greatly depends on driving style, experience, and track layout.
    Last edited by flipm3; 10-08-2012 at 07:32 PM.
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
    2009 E90 M3 DCT | Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    Powerband usage greatly depends on driving style, experience, and track layout.
    Exactly. 7000 and up on the M3 is too narrow of a window to be realistic.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Hopefully the two can meet up without any outside influences and get a clean safe race.

    Ive raced so many cars in my time the dyno is only half the story.

    One thing I know we will win is the best looking kit award. That is until Evolve steps in with the bling Click here to enlarge

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    Great discussion so far.

    Was studying the GT5550 Vs 5555 compressor maps and looks like the 5555 will delivery that top end power.

    Look forward to some graphs then.

    Just a comment on the afr and ignition.
    Just because one company is running richer doesn't mean they are running more timing.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    Area under the curve is a misleading phrase. For performanct, you need to look at area under the curve in the racing powerband. Which in a DCT is 7000-8300rpm. Look at the area under the curve there.
    This is why this comparison between the two kits is such a good one. One kit offers more power in the midrange and will feel faster in normal driving while the other kit has more power in that critical 7-8,300RPM range and will therefore be faster than the other kit in a drag race.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    and will therefore be faster than the other kit in a drag race.
    This is a point of contention.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #37
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is a point of contention.
    If all else is equal, I think it's fair to assume the kit that makes more power over the entire RPM range that would be used during the race would be faster, no? If you start in a lower gear, the other kit stands a good chance depending on the length of the race.

    Now, this is assuming the power curves are actually directly comparable but without having both cars on the same dyno (and not a Dynojet) at the same time, different dyno graphs aren't as comparable as we all wish they were.

    EDIT: I guess it's been too long since we sold our E90 M3, I was reading "7-8,300" and thinking "6-8,300" which is actually a more realistic power band for a race. So you're right, it's not quite so clear cut but I still think the top-end kit is making enough extra power up top over the other kit to be the likely victor.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by akh23456 Click here to enlarge
    Great Post @flipm3 i need to hit the dyno so i can overlay the new blower graph over these ones...I am glad you understand Peak HP means nothing in our M3 its all about the power under the curve.
    Not for nothing but I would have to disagree with you ! The only time your seeing bennifit of the power under the curve is in 1st and 2nd gears and more or less 3rd, that ESS650 ( M33 ) car will eat all the cars listed in the Dyno graphs on this thread , not only is he pretty much matching the curve of the AA car but his car actually goes to redline with an additional 50whp and 10wtq that stretches to redline also now if you add a 2-6th gear run it will pretty much put 3-4 cars on its competitors.
    A good run would be the 625 ESS car with the AA car

    Great post BTW!!

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    really depends on if any dyno tricks were used to achieve these #'s to compare; tires, spraying water on heat exchanger, standard tuning or dyno only tuning ect..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully the two can meet up without any outside influences and get a clean safe race.

    Ive raced so many cars in my time the dyno is only half the story.

    One thing I know we will win is the best looking kit award. That is until Evolve steps in with the bling Click here to enlarge
    Best looking manifolds are the ESS , AA & evolve ! The gintani one makes me puke and the VF looks like a toy and sits too far back..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    Best looking manifolds are the ESS , AA & evolve ! The gintani one makes me puke and the VF looks like a toy and sits too far back..

    I used to think the same thing, until i actualy saw all the manifolds in person. Now my view has shifted, you need to see them all to appreciate it

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    Not for nothing but I would have to disagree with you ! The only time your seeing bennifit of the power under the curve is in 1st and 2nd gears and more or less 3rd, that ESS650 ( M33 ) car will eat all the cars listed in the Dyno graphs on this thread , not only is he pretty much matching the curve of the AA car but his car actually goes to redline with an additional 50whp and 10wtq that stretches to redline also now if you add a 2-6th gear run it will pretty much put 3-4 cars on its competitors.
    A good run would be the 625 ESS car with the AA car

    Great post BTW!!
    i have to disagree.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    really depends on if any dyno tricks were used to achieve these #'s to compare; tires, spraying water on heat exchanger, standard tuning or dyno only tuning ect..
    +1 he has stated that spraying water on his intercooler will give him 20-30 hp.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

  18. #43
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    You going to this Atco event ? ( directed at Akash )

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    You going to this Atco event ? ( directed at Akash )
    are you? if so what car?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    You going to this Atco event ? ( directed at Akash )
    Yes, are you?
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    I wish I had a blower otherwise I would come :-/
    but I'm in the market for a blower so I'm curious to see the turn out , good luck to you guys !

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    I wish I had a blower otherwise I would come :-/
    but I'm in the market for a blower so I'm curious to see the turn out , good lunch to you guys !
    you speak with such authenticity of knowledge with a blown s65 though, surely you frquent other forums, what would the name on those be?

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    Click here to enlarge


    PS -- Who cares if the manifold looks "pretty", I'd rather have something that's dog $#@! ugly & gives max constant, efficiency. Can always add paint if it bothers you that much to dress it up.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SunocoCAM2 Click here to enlarge
    that ESS650 ( M33 ) car will eat all the cars listed in the Dyno graphs on this thread , not only is he pretty much matching the curve of the AA car but his car actually goes to redline with an additional 50whp and 10wtq that stretches to redline
    this is with meth as an octane enhancement though too, not just cooling, correct me if im wrong............ but a 650 car should beat a 625 car, as it supposed to make more power Click here to enlarge

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    Please remember that the AA graphs are from the 8550 blower and not the 8555 that i have. What kind of car do you drive @SunocoCAM2 ?
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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