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  1. #1
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    BT logs for the S65

    I finally had a chance to log the car. On and off meth

    I did have about 95 octane for this. (leftover fuel from dragstrip+93 pump)

    Ambient temps were 60-65*

    Logs are time stamped so you can see how long between runs.

    These started after about 20 minutes of driving

    No meth

    3rd gear
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    The rest are 4th gear
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    I then turned around, drove back and made another Uturn to take the same road to log

    Meth is on- CM5 (400cc/min) 80/20 meth/water 2.5 min flow, 6psi max flow


    These are 4th gear
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    3rd gear
    Click here to enlarge


    Ive been told by other users, that more than 50/50 meth/water is too much. I will test this out.
    It also seems that the amount is not doing enough, for either, octane or cooling. If trying a different mixture is not enough, I will go to a CM7 nozzle (what the other guys are using)


    Anyone care to discuss?
    @BrenM3
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    That makes no sense. Is your meth flowing over the temp sensor?

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    @LM - I don't know too much about boosted engines with meth, but I am curious if it not only decreases IATs but also increases advance?

    As you said, it looks like IATs weren't changed too much with meth, but the advance looks like it's more aggressive after it was injected.

    It's definitely cool to see how that IATs increase so quickly with regard to RPM. Cool stuff.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    That makes no sense. Is your meth flowing over the temp sensor?
    Theres a few sensors, I have 2 of them logged, doesnt make sense to me either

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    @LM - I don't know too much about boosted engines with meth, but I am curious if it not only decreases IATs but also increases advance?

    As you said, it looks like IATs weren't changed too much with meth, but the advance looks like it's more aggressive after it was injected.

    It's definitely cool to see how that IATs increase so quickly with regard to RPM. Cool stuff.
    its supposed to do both, especially with higher meth concentrations

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    Are you injecting post compressor or pre compressor?
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

    Click here to enlarge

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    post

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    Are you sure your meth isn't pooling in the manifold?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    Are you sure your meth isn't pooling in the manifold?

    I dont see how it could. its such a little amount, but high %. Even in ambient air it dissapoints extrememly fast

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    It looks like the meth is having VERY little effect in reducing the IATs, just looks like the temps aren't skyrocketing as violently in the 7600-8400 RPM area when the meth is flowing


    I know that you're ESS setup wasn't designed for meth & where your meth nozzle is, but where @akh23456 's AA kit tapped (just for a comparison)???
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    AA's/akash's kit are soley for cooling. same thing im going for. His testing has found the same thing mine has so far, that it has little to no effect on performance. Ive seen him turn off the meth and run just as fast as with it on. Same thing ive done.

    What im concerned with is the timing seems worse with meth, and there is only a minimal cooling effect.

    Its the cooling im after, It would seem that im just not puttin enough in early enough

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    What im concerned with is the timing seems worse with meth, and there is only a minimal cooling effect.
    Need a meth tune...
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    yea from what i heave seen on the quarter mile temp would go up a little with it off but it would cool down as soon as i got off the pedal. I would be back to normal temps with in 30 seconds max, but with it on temp stay consistent and never move.
    F10 M5 : ??????
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Need a meth tune...
    doesnt make sense.. timing shouldnt drop with more octane.. unless the 95+meth is too much. even then, it should hit a celing and stay there. Im gonna do more testing..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    doesnt make sense.. timing shouldnt drop with more octane.. unless the 95+meth is too much. even then, it should hit a celing and stay there. Im gonna do more testing..
    You can't expect the ecu to adjust automatically to everything especially once supercharged and a bunch of stock parameters are changed.

    Timing shouldn't drop but your timing has already been changed by the software.
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    Interesting. If you are already at the max target timing (in this tune) without meth, then adding it meth will only affect IAT and not peak timing advanced; since it is maxed. The timing basically looks the same ~24 peak in the upper range with or without meth. Looks like it hit 26 at one point, but then immediately pulled back.

    However, the IAT isn't going down any appreciable amount so the meth appears to be having no impact what-so-ever.

    I'll ask what may be a stupid question. This is a 535 non-intercooled kit right? Why not intercool before worrying about meth? Not that meth can't work well, but intercooling seems like the better initial solution. Meth seems like the gravy to eek out the extra power. At least that is the way I always looked at them in terms of turbo cars.

    Also - I haven't played with my BT much at all - can you overlay knock events on the same graph?

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    Very interesting data! This was actually something I was very much looking forward to when you first got your kit. I think I actually asked you if you planned on logging data on one of your Facebook posts.

    What I find the most interesting is how meth isn't really showing as much of a benefit in respect to IAT and Timing as you would expect.

    Do you think this could be a by product of how ESS tunes the VT1-535 kit?
    Do you have data on logging for knock?
    Do you know if ESS tunes anything specific for IAT correction for knock? I understand that the MSS60 control knock based off spark plugs, but if I understand correctly, it also does from IATs.

    As you mentioned, it seems like you may need more meth.....or an Evolve Supercharger kit haha

    Please forgive my very superficial understanding of how the DME really works. I am still trying to fully understand how this engine and DME work as a whole. To say the least, I have a long way of really comprehending the effects of IAT, AFR, Timing, etc...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. If you are already at the max target timing (in this tune) without meth, then adding it meth will only affect IAT and not peak timing advanced; since it is maxed. The timing basically looks the same ~24 peak in the upper range with or without meth. Looks like it hit 26 at one point, but then immediately pulled back.

    However, the IAT isn't going down any appreciable amount so the meth appears to be having no impact what-so-ever.

    I'll ask what may be a stupid question. This is a 535 non-intercooled kit right? Why not intercool before worrying about meth? Not that meth can't work well, but intercooling seems like the better initial solution. Meth seems like the gravy to eek out the extra power. At least that is the way I always looked at them in terms of turbo cars.

    Also - I haven't played with my BT much at all - can you overlay knock events on the same graph?
    Thats just it, timing looks worse with meth on. More erratic and more knocking.

    I dont think timing looks that good to begin with, and thats 95 octane

    yes, non intercooled. why would i use an intercooled kit if the performance isnt justifiable. My intention is to upgrade to an intercooled kit of course, but for now, if heatsoak and IATs are an issue, then meth should have negated that. But they arnt supposed to be an issue in the first place.
    Would I have added meth if i didnt already have a kit laying around? probably not, but thats not the case. $5k to upgrade to a intercooled kit, or $30 on new meth tubing. easy choice

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    Very interesting data! This was actually something I was very much looking forward to when you first got your kit. I think I actually asked you if you planned on logging data on one of your Facebook posts.

    What I find the most interesting is how meth isn't really showing as much of a benefit in respect to IAT and Timing as you would expect.

    Do you think this could be a by product of how ESS tunes the VT1-535 kit?
    Do you have data on logging for knock?
    Do you know if ESS tunes anything specific for IAT correction for knock? I understand that the MSS60 control knock based off spark plugs, but if I understand correctly, it also does from IATs.

    As you mentioned, it seems like you may need more meth.....or an Evolve Supercharger kit haha

    Please forgive my very superficial understanding of how the DME really works. I am still trying to fully understand how this engine and DME work as a whole. To say the least, I have a long way of really comprehending the effects of IAT, AFR, Timing, etc...
    I really dont know what they do, and i didnt want to change anything. the base tune should be perfect. I wanted to see how meth changes any of that. Tuning for the meth is somthing i dont want any part of.

    so, Im sorry I cant answer any of those questions. Ill ask around, but I dont know. These logs dont have any kncok voltage in them. I can certainly grab it. I think bren gave me a pid file that recorded it, but i used a different one.

    Im going to try again, same setup. meth earlier, se how that changes it. then try more water/less meth. if that doesnt show anything good, ill go to a larger nozzle and repeate %'s.

    If thats still not showing good stuff, ill just pull the meth kit off

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I really dont know what they do, and i didnt want to change anything. the base tune should be perfect. I wanted to see how meth changes any of that. Tuning for the meth is somthing i dont want any part of.

    so, Im sorry I cant answer any of those questions. Ill ask around, but I dont know. These logs dont have any kncok voltage in them. I can certainly grab it. I think bren gave me a pid file that recorded it, but i used a different one.

    Im going to try again, same setup. meth earlier, se how that changes it. then try more water/less meth. if that doesnt show anything good, ill go to a larger nozzle and repeate %'s.

    If thats still not showing good stuff, ill just pull the meth kit off
    No worries! Just more so curious.

    I just find it funny because other's have posted "data" showing that the ESS VT1-535 is "so good" at controlling at IATs and providing consistent power. But looking at the 100% candid information that you have just shared with us, clearly shows how quickly IATs sky rocket in this kit. It's nice to see the true nature of this kit. There was another forum member on the "Post" who wrote a review about his VT1-535 and how it wasn't performing as well as he thought on the track, despite advertised claims. Coincidentally, the kit is now for sale.

    I would really like to find out why meth doesn't help at all as one would expect. I'll try to ask around for my own learning too Click here to enlarge

    Keep up the great work man! I enjoy the real information that you provide. They hold much value because it can help current VT1-535 owners improve their setups or help others decide what route to take for their own respective kits.
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    The first thing im gonna try is setting 100% flow around 6k rpms, see if it delays the heat any longer

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    i think you should try 100% flow right around 4,000rpm to redline, and maybe even 3500rpm.
    F10 M5 : ??????
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by akh23456 Click here to enlarge
    i think you should try 100% flow right around 4,000rpm to redline, and maybe even 3500rpm.
    im not really making much boost there. ill try it, but ill go slow and scale it back

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Thats just it, timing looks worse with meth on. More erratic and more knocking.

    I dont think timing looks that good to begin with, and thats 95 octane

    yes, non intercooled. why would i use an intercooled kit if the performance isnt justifiable. My intention is to upgrade to an intercooled kit of course, but for now, if heatsoak and IATs are an issue, then meth should have negated that. But they arnt supposed to be an issue in the first place.
    Would I have added meth if i didnt already have a kit laying around? probably not, but thats not the case. $5k to upgrade to a intercooled kit, or $30 on new meth tubing. easy choice


    I really dont know what they do, and i didnt want to change anything. the base tune should be perfect. I wanted to see how meth changes any of that. Tuning for the meth is somthing i dont want any part of.

    so, Im sorry I cant answer any of those questions. Ill ask around, but I dont know. These logs dont have any kncok voltage in them. I can certainly grab it. I think bren gave me a pid file that recorded it, but i used a different one.

    Im going to try again, same setup. meth earlier, se how that changes it. then try more water/less meth. if that doesnt show anything good, ill go to a larger nozzle and repeate %'s.

    If thats still not showing good stuff, ill just pull the meth kit off
    I think your line of troubleshooting makes sense. Concur that timing looks "eh" with and without meth.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    Do you think this could be a by product of how ESS tunes the VT1-535 kit?
    Absolutely.
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    No this has nothing to do with any tuning. Injecting water should drop the Intake charge temp as read but the IAT sensor. Plain & simple this is a simple temperature measuring device before the air even enters the engine. Got nothing to do with tuning.

    You should be maintaining constant IAT with meth spraying. I have 3x 1mm jets with a progressive controller. Let me see if I can post some logs. The 1st goal is to get the meth to stabilise the IAT, because that will have a knock-on effect. The advance will go up with lower IAT's & also if your mix adds a lot of octane, that can also contribute to even more advance. But the 1st step is to get the meth to stabilise the IAT's. Have you tried spraying with just plain H20 to see the cooling effect?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M&M Click here to enlarge
    You should be maintaining constant IAT with meth spraying. I have 3x 1mm jets with a progressive controller. Let me see if I can post some logs. The 1st goal is to get the meth to stabilise the IAT, because that will have a knock-on effect. The advance will go up with lower IAT's & also if your mix adds a lot of octane, that can also contribute to even more advance. But the 1st step is to get the meth to stabilise the IAT's. Have you tried spraying with just plain H20 to see the cooling effect?

    exactly what i was aiming for.

    I have not tried straight h20 yet. I will be logging more today/ tonight though. was out lastnight for a bit, and turned min@1.5psi, max@ 3.5psi and the car felt very strong with no stumble. Its the same mix, nothing changed, so im curious how its doing

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