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  1. #1
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    Creaminz's 58mm 6AT Dyno/Logs

    From E90Post.

    Shiv:
    Hi guys,
    Been busy at the shop lately. But here is some info I got this morning from one of our 6AT single turbo customers (Creaminz). He lives in southern California and is preparing for some kind of magazine shootout. So yesterday, his car was tested at Buttonwillow Raceway where he said it performed flawlessly (with Ivan at LTBMW behind the wheel). He ran it a 20psi which was far too much power for this tires (sounds like fun to me!). It didn't overheat or limp in any way. The only issue they had a charge pipe that popped off at the throttle body. Once tightened down, the car was good to go.
    And then today, he took the car to EAS (http://www.europeanautosource.com) to test it on their in-house Dynojet. We were not present during these tests (400 miles away). Until today, the most power an n54 ever put down on that dyno, according to EAS, was 470whp. Despite the 102F shop temps, Creaminz car put down:
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Logs:
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    We've tested similarly equipped 58mm single turbo 6ATs ourselves and they routinely make 570-575whp. But those tests were done in 60-80F temps, not 100+ :bulge:
    Logs look fine. Timing is good. Fuel trims are identical (although we've since then updated the map to offer more open loop fueling above 5500rpm). And on-boost AFR is rock solid at ~11.9:1.
    But as you can see, we are still working diligently on getting the transmission control unit to shift at 7000+ RPM. If we can do that, the car can easily make 600+whp at the same boost level. Currently, this is why 6MTs have a top end advantage now since they make power up to 7200rpm. But you'd never no that after driving a single turbo 6AT. There is a lot to say about no losing boost between gears Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
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    so what would that car dyno on 93 pump and later on93/e85 mix? no meth of course

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Why is the dyno cutting off at 6500? Afraid of grenading a transmission?

    Nice numbers for where the dyno sheet cuts off though.

    And why are you talking about the shop temps? The STD correction will increase the uncorrected numbers in those temperatures and you know this. @shiv@vishnu

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    I did some tesing a while back, there were big differences. That correction only goes so far, my car made ~20whp less on a really hot day on the same dyno compared to a cooler day.
    Last edited by jpsimon; 10-01-2012 at 10:00 PM.
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    not really that impressed. 560.. ehh.

    Obviously a big step for the N54 but 560 will get walked by just about everything that is fast on the street around here. 600+ Click here to enlarge

    (trolololololol)




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Why is the dyno cutting off at 6500? Afraid of grenading a transmission?

    Nice numbers for where the dyno sheet cuts off though.

    And why are you talking about the shop temps? The STD correction will increase the uncorrected numbers in those temperatures and you know this. @shiv@vishnu
    The heat will still affect the motor that day correction won't make the air more dense.

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    So this is with pump 91 and meth? 560 isn't bad but a long way from what Shiv was displaying with his car.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    not really that impressed. 560.. ehh.

    Obviously a big step for the N54 but 560 will get walked by just about everything that is fast on the street around here. 600+ Click here to enlarge

    (trolololololol)
    Yes, you're right. These are uber-lame numbers not even worth mentioning. Been there, done that, right?

    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So this is with pump 91 and meth? 560 isn't bad but a long way from what Shiv was displaying with his car.
    Well Shiv has a 62mm since he has a 6MT, this is a 58 on a 6AT. We all knew (or should know) that 6AT will be lower unless the TCU can be adjusted to shift at 7000+.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by skinrock Click here to enlarge
    Well Shiv has a 62mm since he has a 6MT, this is a 58 on a 6AT. We all knew (or should know) that 6AT will be lower unless the TCU can be adjusted to shift at 7000+.
    Of course but why the smaller turbo here? Driveability?

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    Why is this smaller turbo not hitting full boost until 4500? Isn't that worse than the 62mm dynos?

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    Dynojets read 12% high, am I right? With pump gas and that ample amount of meth, it's really not impressive. That's like 510hp/450tq on a mustang dyno. I'd be impressed if it was on straight pump.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course but why the smaller turbo here? Driveability?
    Because of the AT shift point being so low that even this turbo is way too big. The optimal peak power figure for AT is less than this. This has too much power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course but why the smaller turbo here? Driveability?
    Well as of right now the 62 has absolutely no benefit on the 6AT from what I've seen. There is a dyno chart comparing the 58 on a 6AT and the 62 on a 6MT, and the curve is pretty much identical (almost the same variance as two dyno runs on a single car), except after 6200 rpm when the 6AT tapers off for the shift. The 6MT continues to climb at the same rate until 7200.

    To quote Shiv: "On the dyno during a 4th gear pull, the 58mm turbo on the 6at spools up exactly as quick as the 62mm on a 6mt. But on the road, it has significantly faster transient response making it a good match for the 6at."

    So yes, there is a drivability improvement, and it doesn't make sense to give it up for no gain.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course but why the smaller turbo here? Driveability?
    Yes should spool earlier and have better drivability. However it still looks like you need to be in the 3k rpm range for full turbo spool.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Yes should spool earlier and have better drivability. However it still looks like you need to be in the 3k rpm range for full turbo spool.
    Well you won't spool as fast on a dynojet as you will in the real world.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Because of the AT shift point being so low that even this turbo is way too big. The optimal peak power figure for AT is less than this. This has too much power.
    That makes complete sense, how long until the shift limit on the AT's is raised?

    So, the single turbo automatics seem to be at a bit of a disadvantage right now. 560 whp is plenty by any measure but this won't play with the big boys.

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    wow, looks like boost was 24ish psi..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The heat will still affect the motor that day correction won't make the air more dense.
    Its less of an issue with FI motors than NA.

    It's the same reason corrected numbers are lower in freezing shop temps as opposed to hot temps.

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    That's a pretty lazy spool, worse than some of the 62mm turbo dynos Shiv has shown. Maybe some issue but that's way lazy for that application. FFTEC needs to kick out a twin scroll manifold for him so he can try out an EFR or some other twin scroll and get it make full boost by 3000RPM and the same top end. That will kick ass.

    HPF already posted their TS manifold in progress. Looking forward to spool on that sucker.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
    That's a pretty lazy spool, worse than some of the 62mm turbo dynos Shiv has shown. Maybe some issue but that's way lazy for that application. FFTEC needs to kick out a twin scroll manifold for him so he can try out an EFR or some other twin scroll and get it make full boost by 3000RPM and the same top end. That will kick ass.

    HPF already posted their TS manifold in progress. Looking forward to spool on that sucker.
    It should spool a bit quicker on the street or a proper load based dyno.
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    what gear was it? 5th is what they like to use, and im sure even on a load dyno, 5th would take time to wind out, but give better "numbers"

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    Meh, looks like this was 100 oct plus meth, not even 91 ACN piss fuel.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by creaminz Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for posting up the graphs Shiv. Car is a blast to drive!

    100oct + Meth. I was driving with high boost today...man car is just pure animal...1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, I mean any gear pull is just absolute beast. I need better tires Click here to enlarge
    If 7000rpm becomes reality, 600 to the wheels should be piece of cake. Even Steve @ EAS told me "it's nice to see how this car keeps making better numbers on each run." , "very consistent." :thumbsup:
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    11.4 car? guess?




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    11.4 car? guess?
    with 550+rwhp and Tq to match, it better run at least 11.108 @ 127+ mph Click here to enlarge

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