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Thread: Our ProEFI N54

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I am all for this provided we don't lose DI. The DI injectors are capable of flowing some ridiculous volume of fuel due to BMW demanding the system be able to run limp mode on LPFP only. With E85 and DI there are some big benefits that just aren't realized with port injection only.

    Excited for this!
    You will not lose the ability to have DI. We however may opt out on using it in the long run. If we do use it, DC% will not be anymore than the factory wants. Reason: Injector failure is already high and nobody likes a hole in their piston.

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    Tony,
    We will most definitely be in touch with you regarding internal parts. Until then we are going to work hard on breaking a rod or cracking a landing first. I think it'll benefit everyone to know exactly how much a stocker will take!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    LOL Click here to enlarge I wholeheartedly agree that "relying" on knock detection for tuning is a bad idea. I was merely implying that the OEM DME had a great ability to pull timing per cylinder and it looks like you've got something similar if not the same.

    1) How does ProEFI detect knock on the N54? Is it maybe proactively doing it in some way and pulling timing or reactively (when it senses knock) pull timing.


    2) Do you have the ability to pull timing from individual cylinders and if yes how is that configured?
    Yes, timing yanked out of individual cylinders Click here to enlarge
    I agree about the factory dme being incredible. The only faster factory ecu we have seen is the GTR. However we still picked up 15% across the board with proefi. I will ask Jason how knock detection on this application will work, as I do not know that answer yet.LOL

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nitehawk Click here to enlarge
    So does that mean certain controls would need to be disabled in the stock DME to allow ProEFI to work in conjunction?
    How exactly do you mean?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    Tony,
    We will most definitely be in touch with you regarding internal parts. Until then we are going to work hard on breaking a rod or cracking a landing first. I think it'll benefit everyone to know exactly how much a stocker will take!
    If you can push whatever setup till you bend a rod without lifting the head or damaging the engine in any other way, I will be eternally grateful...I am tired of this pussyfooting around limits, I want to know what kinda TQ/hp this aluminum, open deck block can take...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    That hand-drawn map showing 40lb/min@STP each at 3:1 looked good to me. My goals require at least 65lb/min@STP total, which is why I knew the current RBs weren't going to work. 80lbs/min@STP and I'm there. But so far I'm not seeing why I need a ProEFI to do that. If I need an upgrade pump I'll buy it from whoever sells it. I just need 600whp worth of fuel and it appears I can get that from the stock system.
    +1 has anyone looked into fitting a walboro in the tank or adding one inline? This sounds like the logical next step. A stand alone was great on my 240 but not sure it's needed here. Definately another option to make things real interesting but at the price tag I'm sure it's gonna come with ill sit this one out and enjoy you guys' progress.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    The manifold is sheet metal. velocity stack, tapered runner, factory TB location with 6 P/H injectors. Next week, we will decide whether we are going to utilize the DI injectors in conjunction with the port fuel injection. Although some people are already doing some E85 testing with factory injectors, we are not convinced that the fuel pumps will survive. E85 being 33% lighter than Gasoline gives us reason for concern, however with ProEFI knowing how much fuel the DI injectors are injecting we can easily make the mathematical calculation in the background to determine what ethanol % is being injected in our secondary fuel system. The factory injectors may just continue running pump gas at no more than factory level.

    We cannot release all of our information. There has been MANY attempts for a solution for this platform. We have it!

    Stay tuned.... We will be traveling 2300 Miles next Thursday to the ProEFI headquarters to finish our shop car. I promise there will be DAILY if not HOURLY updates beginning then.

    Thanks guys!!

    Angie
    Please give us some pics of this manifold? I for one am very interested in it's design...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    This is good news you guys. This is the type of system that is needed to make big power on this platform. I secured my dealer account with a company selling 9.5:1 forged pistons among other things today. As I can see with these types of updates the engines stock power limits should be found soon. Lets see who is going to be the first fully built twin GTX N54. Now things are getting interesting.
    @dzenno will most likely be one of the first since he's in the process of putting his built motor back together =p
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Please give us some pics of this manifold? I for one am very interested in it's design...
    With out a doubt! Again we will be traveling to finish the car on the 4th

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Subscribed Click here to enlarge im back to looking for a 335 again Click here to enlarge

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    I'll be happy to see the DI gone. Simplicity is a beautiful thing, and will really open up this platform to the aftermarket. If this car was released with PI we would have seen 1000hp already.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    I'll be happy to see the DI gone. Simplicity is a beautiful thing, and will really open up this platform to the aftermarket. If this car was released with PI we would have seen 1000hp already.
    You do realize DI is a large part of the insanely high knock resistance we get using E85... right? Hell it even helps out on 93. If we get rid of DI I am confident we will need to lower the compression to hit some of the HP targets people have been talking about. Maybe the block will open up before then, but that is something to think about.

    I think the biggest thing holding the platform from those kinds of developments is the price of the cars and thus the type of people that buy them. $50,000 entry level BMWs are not a huge tuner market.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    You do realize DI is a large part of the insanely high knock resistance we get using E85... right? Hell it even helps out on 93. If we get rid of DI I am confident we will need to lower the compression to hit some of the HP targets people have been talking about. Maybe the block will open up before then, but that is something to think about.

    I think the biggest thing holding the platform from those kinds of developments is the price of the cars and thus the type of people that buy them. $50,000 entry level BMWs are not a huge tuner market.
    You must not have much tuning experience, and I say that in the most respectful way possible. I realize the way DI atomizes fuel "enhances" the octane benefits, but to say port injection doesn't benefit from e85 is totally untrue. People make nearly the same number on C16 as E85 for a reason.

    That's part of it too. It's a combination of things. I just fell people would be more eager to pursue a platform with more "open horizons". I know it's stopped me. I have a shop who wants to build a single turbo manifold on my car to mass produce. It's not motivating when there isn't a good tuning solution.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    You must not have much tuning experience, and I say that in the most respectful way possible. I realize the way DI atomizes fuel "enhances" the octane benefits, but to say port injection doesn't benefit from e85 is totally untrue. People make nearly the same number on C16 as E85 for a reason.

    That's part of it too. It's a combination of things. I just fell people would be more eager to pursue a platform with more "open horizons". I know it's stopped me. I have a shop who wants to build a single turbo manifold on my car to mass produce. It's not motivating when there isn't a good tuning solution.
    I didn't say that or even hint at saying that. You must not have much experience reading, and I as well say that in the most respectful way.

    To each his own, but to disregard the benefits brought to us by DI would be naive. If you want to do a simple port injection setup there are TONS of standalone systems that will work. I don't see why you would need anyone to pioneer that for you. Additionally pretty much every tuner in this market has acknowledged that they are ready and willing to tune the big HP single turbo setups. There are multiple threads in this very forum covering it.

    My point was that DI is a PART of why we get such high knock resistance out of E85 mixes. Port injection sacrifices a PART of that resistance and will require lower compression rebuilds sooner. That is all.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I didn't say that or even hint at saying that. You must not have much experience reading, and I as well say that in the most respectful way.

    To each his own, but to disregard the benefits brought to us by DI would be naive. If you want to do a simple port injection setup there are TONS of standalone systems that will work. I don't see why you would need anyone to pioneer that for you. Additionally pretty much every tuner in this market has acknowledged that they are ready and willing to tune the big HP single turbo setups. There are multiple threads in this very forum covering it.

    My point was that DI is a PART of why we get such high knock resistance out of E85 mixes. Port injection sacrifices a PART of that resistance and will require lower compression rebuilds sooner. That is all.
    And what I'm trying to say is you get the same knock resistance with PI. I don't care so much for a 5% increase in knock resistance. It's not going to make or break anything at that point.

    I would love to convert to standalone. Maybe I will when this isn't my primary car. I don't need a second project. My only concern has been what do with the di injectors and hpfp. I haven't even looked into it yet to find a solution. I will when the time comes.

    So I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

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    I honestly dont see the need to scrap the factory DI system, its limits havent even been pushed. We have only lately seen the limits of the LPFP - and thats because of the use of E85. IMO the HPFP and injectors are solid, lets see what the system can crank out once the fuel supply to the HPFP is figured out.
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    Gotta pay to play. You dont see the supra guys with their PI setups running $300 piggy tunes...its $1000 AEM setups, $3k proefi, pectel and vipec setups. And those cars are a limited market with many still fetching WAY more than what most used 335s go for now.

    335s have just begun to flood the market, it takes some time compared to the rest of the industry because A)resale values remain high for sometime, B) they cost an arm and a leg to maintain(So everyone tries to keep the warranty legit), but then again you shouldnt be living paycheck to paycheck and trying to slap a single turbo on your car, and C) the DME is one of the most well encrypted units out there, and very smart as well.

    Hopefully by next years end we will this market blown wide open, and I plan to be there when it happens Click here to enlarge

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    We are not planning on ditching the DI by any means. We have control of themClick here to enlarge I just don't think we want to use them more then they were intended to be.
    Mixing more gasoline with ethanol really isn't a great plan.
    Gasoline is carbon based and therefor promotes detonation. Ethanol does not have a measurable octane rating because it is not carbon based. Adding more gas to E defeats the purpose. The more gas you add the less effective ethanol is by nature. May as well throw 3 gallons of c16 in there and call it a day.
    We will be implementing the Flex sensor in our secondary system and turning off the DI more than likely at higher boost/load levels. That way your fuel economy stays the same and you are able to get the best of both worldsClick here to enlarge

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    A lot of damn exciting stuff going on these days for the N54!

    Neil

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    VArgas Stage 3 and now this... Exciting times for the N54 Click here to enlarge
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    sub'd! I can not wait to get some real work happening on my car again. Seems like the timing for everything is perfect! Click here to enlarge

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    Glad to see that everyone is interested!!!! We can't wait to show you guys what we have, the 4th can't come soon enough!

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    the 4th of october right?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    Gasoline is carbon based and therefor promotes detonation. Ethanol does not have a measurable octane rating because it is not carbon based.
    These two statements confuse me. Click here to enlarge Both are composed of carbon and hydrogen, but ethanol has an OH to make it an alcohol.

    But back on topic - this is a huge development. Good luck to you guys, looking forward to the updates!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    the 4th of october right?
    yes
    Click here to enlarge

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