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Thread: Our ProEFI N54

  1. #651
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    tick tock..
    Come back to the darkside and get a n54 already Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Come back to the darkside and get a n54 already Click here to enlarge
    N54=B16 way too common now and same crowd around here drives them. present company excluded Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    N54=B16 way too common now and same crowd around here drives them. present company excluded Click here to enlarge
    Lol ok.... M3 isn't to shabby Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Lol ok.... M3 isn't to shabby Click here to enlarge
    even a basic M3 is too "low class" for me anymore.. it has to be special, unique, one of a kind Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    even a basic M3 is too "low class" for me anymore.. it has to be special, unique, one of a kind Click here to enlarge
    My interest is peaked!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    My interest is peaked!
    well, Undercover has a habit of taking things from old school muscle to new school hustle.. Advancing the platform, if you will, adapting; Darwin..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well, Undercover has a habit of taking things from old school muscle to new school hustle.. Advancing the platform, if you will, adapting; Darwin..
    Sounds good, I've always wanted to drop a LS motor in a e36 m3......
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Sounds good, I've always wanted to drop a LS motor in a e36 m3......
    not exactly my route, but they can surely help you with that

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    not exactly my route, but they can surely help you with that
    I'm sure, but one money pit...I mean car....is enough for me
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well, Undercover has a habit of taking things from old school muscle to new school hustle.. Advancing the platform, if you will, adapting; Darwin..
    Def very interested to see how your M3 turns out after an Undercover "Evolution"
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    Ok boys.... here you go.. now you can all stop crying like big babies and be happy....


    The N54 is up and running on port fuel injection with NO misfires. Crank and CAM trigger patterns are complete. What is going on now, is direct injection, thanks to another manufacturer that uses an external injector driver controller. This is currently being implemented into the new 112 ProEFI Box. This box is more compact, has additional CAN channels, and costs a little bit less then the 128 Box. However... This kit will NOT be cheap, due to direct injection. We are estimating $4,800 in hardware + install & tuning, we will be announcing a pre-release sale in the next 4-6 weeks. you could however run the unit without direct injection, however you would have to spend more money on a secondary fuel system and intake mani so the cost is mute. The next quirk is that each and everyone of these kits will require the user to send in all 6 injectors for them to be flow tested and numbered. We are currently working on an injector test bench for this.

    On another note we are looking forward to receiving one of Tony's NEW HPFP's for a customer that currently has a 135 here, and we will continue testing running high Ethanol percentage content numbers on factory DME's. This will allow us to better gauge how far we can push the DI's. We are also working on a fuel line kit and proper LPFP install kit that will give customers factory like LPFP installation also with an Ethanol content sensor for those who cannot yet run ProEFI.

    Realize we will not release any information pertaining to the kit until we are at least 100% satisfied with the results.

    Your cars safety is our biggest concern =)
    so anyone who wants to get proefi on their N54 needs to send in their direct injectors to get tested by you? i thought they were already tested from factory with their numbers stamped? hence you have to code them to the DME already?

    or do you mean the injectors for the port injection? which is kinda strange by itself.

    and will that be an extra fee? especially if you have an injector fail down the track and need a new one tested? or will it be included considering it's a necessity?

    will the ~$4800 include the proefi (112 or 128? what's the price difference there? and what are the feature differences? will there be any advantage to the 128 over 112?) AND intake mani/PI fuel rail? and how much would 'a little bit less' be 128 vs 112? if you're estimating $4800 with the 112, $5000 with 128 or?

    almost ALMOST disappointed with the update tbh Click here to enlarge, you're pretty much saying one of the hardest parts (DI control) has barely been started. Click here to enlarge

    but really, thanks for the update! Click here to enlarge. looking forward to news of it being fully running DI and all.

    ED: and sorry if you can't/dont want to answer any more questions now. just curious as someone who really wants this setup Click here to enlarge lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    so anyone who wants to get proefi on their N54 needs to send in their direct injectors to get tested by you? i thought they were already tested from factory with their numbers stamped? hence you have to code them to the DME already?

    or do you mean the injectors for the port injection? which is kinda strange by itself.

    and will that be an extra fee? especially if you have an injector fail down the track and need a new one tested? or will it be included considering it's a necessity?

    will the ~$4800 include the proefi (112 or 128? what's the price difference there? and what are the feature differences? will there be any advantage to the 128 over 112?) AND intake mani/PI fuel rail? and how much would 'a little bit less' be 128 vs 112? if you're estimating $4800 with the 112, $5000 with 128 or?

    almost ALMOST disappointed with the update tbh Click here to enlarge, you're pretty much saying one of the hardest parts (DI control) has barely been started. Click here to enlarge

    but really, thanks for the update! Click here to enlarge. looking forward to news of it being fully running DI and all.

    ED: and sorry if you can't/dont want to answer any more questions now. just curious as someone who really wants this setup Click here to enlarge lol.
    I'm gonna attempt to answer your questions, just from reading angie's post
    • The injector testing is for the supplementary port injectors that will be run through the Undercover N54 intake manifold, just to confirm you're achieving the necessary fueling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we can only use the BMW DI injectors on this motor, which have to be OEM coded to even work 100%.
    • No idea if an injector happens to fail, what the necessary "replacement service" will entail (simple replacement vs. testing, etc)
    • The $4800 quote sounds like it's for the ProEFI 112 box. The quote covers the 112 ECM/Harnesses, Install + Tuning. The 128 will cost more (Undercover's website has the 128 by itself for $1880)
      • The 112 will be able to manage the DI injectors
      • If you choose to abandon DI, Angie specifically says the Undercover Manifold, Injectors & Fueling will all become a necessary, additional cost (which would more than likely offset the "savings" by using the 112 instead of the 128).


    I think you need to remember that strictly running DI wasn't a viable option when ProEFI started their N54 setup because of the OEM fueling limitations (specifically the HPFP), but now that the Vargas HPFP upgrade has been released, the R&D has begun. OBVIOUSLY, we'll get a lot more details & specifics in 4-6 weeks when the presale begins.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm not really sure what everybody is upset about, standalones are serious hardware that take a lot of time to perfect. Just ask everybody who bought the UGR TT Lambos when they 1st started selling them, they were originally using 2 piggybacks (each controlling 5 cylinders on 1 side of the V) and blowing motors left & right. Finally UGR was able to adapt the Motec to their TT setup & properly tune it. Switzer recently switched over to to the Syvecs standalones on their Porsche & GTR kits, after being forced to use COBB (not that it's a bad thing, just limited) since 2008 -- Jotech, BoostLogic & AMS are all following and offering standalones with their GTR kits because they can do so much more than what the OEM tables permit. In addition to rewriting all the tables to work with a particular platform, remember all the special features you get with the ProEFI: the advanced Traction Control, the true FlexFuel that automatically compensates for every ethanol blend, boost by gear, Anti-Lag from a dig and roll.

    IF you're gonna pay $4k+ on a standalone ECM in today's world, it's going to need to work flawlessly, regardless of the setup you're running. And that's flawlessly in all conditions, WOT & partial throttle, "normal driving" situations.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    HAHA, def don't have GT3 money. Honestly I'm just trying to get out of this EVO. Huh, I guess maybe I'll rethink the Cayenne.
    Why no more evo????? We can install proEFI and make you fall I love with it all over again Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I'm gonna attempt to answer your questions, just from reading angie's post
    • The injector testing is for the supplementary port injectors that will be run through the Undercover N54 intake manifold, just to confirm you're achieving the necessary fueling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we can only use the BMW DI injectors on this motor, which have to be OEM coded to even work 100%.
    • No idea if an injector happens to fail, what the necessary "replacement service" will entail (simple replacement vs. testing, etc)
    • The $4800 quote sounds like it's for the ProEFI 112 box. The quote covers the 112 ECM/Harnesses, Install + Tuning. The 128 will cost more (Undercover's website has the 128 by itself for $1880)
      • The 112 will be able to manage the DI injectors
      • If you choose to abandon DI, Angie specifically says the Undercover Manifold, Injectors & Fueling will all become a necessary, additional cost (which would more than likely offset the "savings" by using the 112 instead of the 128).


    I think you need to remember that strictly running DI wasn't a viable option when ProEFI started their N54 setup because of the OEM fueling limitations (specifically the HPFP), but now that the Vargas HPFP upgrade has been released, the R&D has begun. OBVIOUSLY, we'll get a lot more details & specifics in 4-6 weeks when the presale begins.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm not really sure what everybody is upset about, standalones are serious hardware that take a lot of time to perfect. Just ask everybody who bought the UGR TT Lambos when they 1st started selling them, they were originally using 2 piggybacks (each controlling 5 cylinders on 1 side of the V) and blowing motors left & right. Finally UGR was able to adapt the Motec to their TT setup & properly tune it. Switzer recently switched over to to the Syvecs standalones on their Porsche & GTR kits, after being forced to use COBB (not that it's a bad thing, just limited) since 2008 -- Jotech, BoostLogic & AMS are all following and offering standalones with their GTR kits because they can do so much more than what the OEM tables permit. In addition to rewriting all the tables to work with a particular platform, remember all the special features you get with the ProEFI: the advanced Traction Control, the true FlexFuel that automatically compensates for every ethanol blend, boost by gear, Anti-Lag from a dig and roll.

    IF you're gonna pay $4k+ on a standalone ECM in today's world, it's going to need to work flawlessly, regardless of the setup you're running. And that's flawlessly in all conditions, WOT & partial throttle, "normal driving" situations.
    If the testing is for the PI, thats.. A bit strange, if you have injectors that can flow well, they cam. If not, get bigger, theyre not as sensitive as DI setup?

    since the proefi will be controlling the DI, it is no longer coded in the DME, but to the proefi i presume

    if it's $4800 is JUST the 112... I'd think twice.. almost (since i may well decide to go a single which the proefi can easily control!! Click here to enlarge )you can get an e46 m3 128 setup with flex fuel and wideband for something like $3100

    im sure the 128 will also be able to control the DI as it's logically more powerful, just it's physically larger and may have more (not entirely needed?) fewtures. Also more expensive. I could very well be wrong here!

    im looking forwards to specifics and more details in 1-2mth as i may well be in for pre-release groupbuy shenanigans Click here to enlarge

    but yes, if the setup is going to approach 5k or even 4k.. I 100% expect stock like driveability.. Not like a cheapy wolf or haltech/megasquirt setup where you dont really care, and it's cheap enough not to matter haha

    ed: yeah the wording indicates that $4800 is just the DI controlling 112 no PI manifold/rail... No flex fuel sensor even? And definitely not counting install or tuning, explicit. I hope this isn't the case! Click here to enlarge.. Or a full 112+pi setup would be $2k++ more expensive on top of that! $7-8k for a proefi and di+PI setup? Not installed or tuned? $10k total potentially? Thats NOT pocket change Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    since the proefi will be controlling the DI, it is no longer coded in the DME, but to the proefi i presume
    The ProEFI (like most standalones being used now) controls everything that's related to engine performance. Basically the convenience features are the only thing left intact on the OEM DME

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    ed: yeah the wording indicates that $4800 is just the DI controlling 112 no PI manifold/rail... No flex fuel sensor even? And definitely not counting install or tuning, explicit.
    The $4800 quote angie mentioned specifically includes the ProEFI 112 ECM + Install + Tuning. I have no idea if that includes FlexFuel tuning or just a Pump Gas tune, but if you wanted to go full Flex Fuel, the sensor is another $465 on the Undercover website + tuning.



    FOR people seriously interested in the ProEFI stuff, I recommend looking at their Product List and get a better understanding of what the ProEFI ECM is capable & the various sensors you could add on to monitor/tune with.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The ProEFI (like most standalones being used now) controls everything that's related to engine performance. Basically the convenience features are the only thing left intact on the OEM DME


    The $4800 quote angie mentioned specifically includes the ProEFI 112 ECM + Install + Tuning. I have no idea if that includes FlexFuel tuning or just a Pump Gas tune, but if you wanted to go full Flex Fuel, the sensor is another $465 on the Undercover website + tuning.



    FOR people seriously interested in the ProEFI stuff, I recommend looking at their Product List and get a better understanding of what the ProEFI ECM is capable & the various sensors you could add on to monitor/tune with.
    Yep i know, which is excellent ^___^ - having all the oem conenience and full powerful tuning is the best sales point imo

    ahh yes i re-read it... I assume the install+tune cost would have to be in the $1000+ range
    i'd assume the MAJORITY of n54 proEFI users would opt for the flex fuel sensor, as that is easily one of the other biggest draw cards.. A truly flex fuel capable system? Massive convenience. No issues with predicting mixes and losing power.

    Ok back to being excited now as someone who's going to self install and cant get undercover to tune it.. Haha

    ed: looking at that list... So many useful things! Haha.. I'll probably be one of the suckers who get a few different sensors :p.. And a gauge/screen would be.. Cool more than anything haha

    and i wonder if the coils they have will be adapted for the n54? Better coils are never a bad thing

    questions i'll have later to do with the harness.. Does it fully replace all the ignition wiring and everything? As wouldn't it be easier to re-use the OEM stuff with an adapter connector? unless it's a big upgrade (higher quality wiring and milspec level connectors etc.
    Last edited by Flinchy; 04-25-2013 at 06:18 AM.

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    Any pricing differences for those who would be ditching the N54 and going with something else? (specifically non-DI motors) Like a Coyote 5.0, LSX, 2JZ, etc?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    Fuel cell in trunk with Bosch 044 Pump.
    Controller is external

    We will be taking full engine control including cams and throttle.

    Testing for autos will take place once the manual car is complete.
    So does this mean the DME won't be able to control the DI side of things?
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    So does this mean the DME won't be able to control the DI side of things?
    If you read the post they're integrating some sort of DI controller.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Any pricing differences for those who would be ditching the N54 and going with something else? (specifically non-DI motors) Like a Coyote 5.0, LSX, 2JZ, etc?
    There are already applications out for the 2JZ, not 100% on the Coyote.. I know when I was in line for getting one mine was supposed to be the first, but I changed my mind on the look and went with a Genny ^__^ who is also going to be the first o__O teehee her first ProEFI run is next week ahhhh ...

    Any who, you can look at the different prices on our website for each application.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Whats the price of the unit on its own, no install or tune?
    Click here to enlarge

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    so anyone who wants to get proefi on their N54 needs to send in their direct injectors to get tested by you? i thought they were already tested from factory with their numbers stamped? hence you have to code them to the DME already?

    or do you mean the injectors for the port injection? which is kinda strange by itself.

    and will that be an extra fee? especially if you have an injector fail down the track and need a new one tested? or will it be included considering it's a necessity?

    will the ~$4800 include the proefi (112 or 128? what's the price difference there? and what are the feature differences? will there be any advantage to the 128 over 112?) AND intake mani/PI fuel rail? and how much would 'a little bit less' be 128 vs 112? if you're estimating $4800 with the 112, $5000 with 128 or?

    almost ALMOST disappointed with the update tbh Click here to enlarge, you're pretty much saying one of the hardest parts (DI control) has barely been started. Click here to enlarge

    but really, thanks for the update! Click here to enlarge. looking forward to news of it being fully running DI and all.

    ED: and sorry if you can't/dont want to answer any more questions now. just curious as someone who really wants this setup Click here to enlarge lol.
    First, we need to fix a few things stated by @benzy89......

    The Injector testing is NOT for secondary fuel Injectors, it is for the DI injectors..why??... because =) they are coded by the factory that makes them.. not BMW. BMW has 0 clue based on the code on the side of the injector of its flow rate. The codes on the injector means nothing to anybody beside the manufacturer that makes them. It is plausible that once we check enough injectors that there will be no need for further flow testing, however.. only time will tell.

    Although Garths car runs on the 128 box currently, that will be removed in favor of the 112 box shortly. The 128 box will NOT be an option for this application as the 112 box suits it much better due to more CAN channels. It is equally as capable as the 128 just slightly smaller and less expensive and is designed for later model applications.

    The pricing is for hardware only, install and tuning will be roughly the same as other vehicles, $800 install(you can of course add more options that will cost more) + $800 tune(2 fuels)

    @klipseracer The 112 box controls DI with the help of an external injector driver.

    I think a couple of you failed to understand the complexity of this application. The DI is only a small portion of the problems we have had to overcome. From; CAM triggers to VANOS control to electronic throttle control, just to get the engine running and happy =) Once this was done, the DI became a viable option. It wasn't but a few months ago that things looked very bleak for this application. However, with a lot of hard work by Garth and the guys at ProEFI things are looking better then ever.

    Remember nobody else has done this but us =)

    As much as we would like to tune EVERY N54 on ProEFI in the country, this will not be the case, there will be at a minimum of 8 highly qualified tuners to help you guys out. More then likely we will be the sole distributor of the hardware since we have done all of the leg work. We believe that we are at least owed this. Poor Garth hasn't had his car since November of 2011 for you guys...OK... for us too =)
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Whats the price of the unit on its own, no install or tune?
    please re-read my post and it will answer your question
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by undercoverangie Click here to enlarge
    First, we need to fix a few things stated by @benzy89 ......

    The Injector testing is NOT for secondary fuel Injectors, it is for the DI injectors..why??... because =) they are coded by the factory that makes them.. not BMW. BMW has 0 clue based on the code on the side of the injector of its flow rate. The codes on the injector means nothing to anybody beside the manufacturer that makes them. It is plausible that once we check enough injectors that there will be no need for further flow testing, however.. only time will tell.

    Although Garths car runs on the 128 box currently, that will be removed in favor of the 112 box shortly. The 128 box will NOT be an option for this application as the 112 box suits it much better due to more CAN channels. It is equally as capable as the 128 just slightly smaller and less expensive and is designed for later model applications.

    The pricing is for hardware only, install and tuning will be roughly the same as other vehicles, $800 install(you can of course add more options that will cost more) + $800 tune(2 fuels)

    @klipseracer The 112 box controls DI with the help of an external injector driver.

    I think a couple of you failed to understand the complexity of this application. The DI is only a small portion of the problems we have had to overcome. From; CAM triggers to VANOS control to electronic throttle control, just to get the engine running and happy =) Once this was done, the DI became a viable option. It wasn't but a few months ago that things looked very bleak for this application. However, with a lot of hard work by Garth and the guys at ProEFI things are looking better then ever.

    Remember nobody else has done this but us =)

    As much as we would like to tune EVERY N54 on ProEFI in the country, this will not be the case, there will be at a minimum of 8 highly qualified tuners to help you guys out. More then likely we will be the sole distributor of the hardware since we have done all of the leg work. We believe that we are at least owed this. Poor Garth hasn't had his car since November of 2011 for you guys...OK... for us too =)
    Thanks for the in-depth answer. Good info in there.

    And I figured the Coyote had not been done 100% yet but that it was coming eventually. So if I'm understanding you correctly, if one does a motorswap, that person buys the ProEFI application for the engine and then you folks set it up to work with the chassis. Like a 2jz in a E92 for example.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the in-depth answer. Good info in there.

    And I figured the Coyote had not been done 100% yet but that it was coming eventually. So if I'm understanding you correctly, if one does a motorswap, that person buys the ProEFI application for the engine and then you folks set it up to work with the chassis. Like a 2jz in a E92 for example.
    correct
    Click here to enlarge

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