Close

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 51 to 60 of 60
  1. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    115
    Rep Points
    262.8
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I mean we really have been manipulating it only since the FED started.
    This version of the Fed is just the latest in several national banks the US has had in its history. Pre-civil war national banks came and went due to political interests and fear of powerful bankers (kind of like now). After the Civil war the national bank was established with the government backing currency. Manipulation happened throughout.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    QE1, QE2, QE3 infinity, bank bailouts on an unprecedented scale, how can you doubt it?
    Monetary policy has been around for a long time. Bank bailouts and QE's are not new, but the cutesy names and transparency that let's you know what's happening is what scares people.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well why is their economy healthier and growing faster?
    Healthier than the US, no. Healthier they they were previously, yes Growing faster because it is an emerging market spread over 1.3 billion people earning $8500/yr vs US at $300 million people $49K/yr. The more they make per capita the slower will be their growth rate.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They have tried to print their way out.
    Japanese currency crisis preceded the Asian currency crisis. Japanese banking credit bubble burst and caused a crash (remember when the Japanese were buying everything in sight?....maybe you don't, you were probably still doing donuts on your big wheel). The economy has been stable, but growth has not returned at the same pre-bubble rate, as it shouldn't.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Printing money causes inflation and really destroys the currency.
    Biggest BS misconception out there. Printing money without demand causes nothing. The lack of perception around the Fed's ability to absorb all this liquidity in the future could cause inflation if demand and wages ramp up too fast. Disinflation possible, but from the low inflation rate currently not devastating (last time in US where you really felt it was end of the 1970's when inflation was over 15%). Deflation not since the 1950's and before that the great depression, but we seem to have dodged that bullet through the current monetary policy.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    blah blah...and Keynes impact on it has been positive you haven't been paying attention to what is going...blah blah
    So in your mind what is going on? Whoever taught Keynesian economics to you should have their ass kicked and you should do the kicking. First the theory is principally a fiscal policy theory and not a monetary theory. Second, the theory pays debt when times are good and uses debt when times are bad. When have you ever seen a government body do both?

    It amazes me that the "Bush Tax cuts", which were sold as a return to the taxpayer of budget surpluses weren't used to pay down the national debt. Once the market bubble burst, wars were started, unfunded health mandates and the like came along that tax cut made no fcuking further sense. They did not even have the guts to make those tax rates permanent. Hence the political fight every time they are about to expire.

    You definitely don't believe everything someone tells you about their 3500 horsepower, 1.5 sec 0-60 bolt on build, why would you believe what someone tells you what you k(no)w about fiscal and monetary policy? You don't have to believe me, but you can look this $#@! up and verify!

    All light, no heat.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,845
    Rep Points
    31,574.1
    Mentioned
    2066 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    This version of the Fed is just the latest in several national banks the US has had in its history. Pre-civil war national banks came and went due to political interests and fear of powerful bankers (kind of like now). After the Civil war the national bank was established with the government backing currency. Manipulation happened throughout.
    This versoin is different as it isn't a temporary charter, it's permanent. So it's a pretty radical version if you ask me.

    Also, all those other "national" banks you are referring to the government opted not to renew their charters, care to tell me why?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Monetary policy has been around for a long time. Bank bailouts and QE's are not new, but the cutesy names and transparency that let's you know what's happening is what scares people.
    Just because something isn't new doesn't mean it is right. We don't know what is happening or where the money went. It's insane really.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Healthier than the US, no. Healthier they they were previously, yes Growing faster because it is an emerging market spread over 1.3 billion people earning $8500/yr vs US at $300 million people $49K/yr. The more they make per capita the slower will be their growth rate.
    Much healthier than the US as they run a surplus not crazy deficit spending. Our economy is sick and not getting better, it's getting worse. Their per capita is lower but so what? They can increase this and it is going up while we are losing jobs and the value of our currency tumbles.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Japanese currency crisis preceded the Asian currency crisis. Japanese banking credit bubble burst and caused a crash (remember when the Japanese were buying everything in sight?....maybe you don't, you were probably still doing donuts on your big wheel). The economy has been stable, but growth has not returned at the same pre-bubble rate, as it shouldn't.
    The Japanese economy still has major problems and their printing of money hasn't solved anything. You call it stable? I call it an illusion. You wish it was stable, that is what the central banks are selling you and you are buying it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Biggest BS misconception out there. Printing money without demand causes nothing. The lack of perception around the Fed's ability to absorb all this liquidity in the future could cause inflation if demand and wages ramp up too fast. Disinflation possible, but from the low inflation rate currently not devastating (last time in US where you really felt it was end of the 1970's when inflation was over 15%). Deflation not since the 1950's and before that the great depression, but we seem to have dodged that bullet through the current monetary policy.
    This is the stupidest comment you have posted by far. Oh, printing money doesn't devalue the currency? So creating money out of thin air does what then? How is this is a misconception when the dollar value continues to decline? Is inflatoin increasing? Hasn't the fed said they are trying to create inflation? Have you looked at prices lately? Dollar is worth less, goods cost more. Go get some gasoline and come and tell me what a BS misconception this is.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    So in your mind what is going on? Whoever taught Keynesian economics to you should have their ass kicked and you should do the kicking. First the theory is principally a fiscal policy theory and not a monetary theory. Second, the theory pays debt when times are good and uses debt when times are bad. When have you ever seen a government body do both?
    It's a failed system from a failed economist. We're slaves to debt, you like this? I don't. Don't sit here and tell me BS about how everything is fine and dandy when we just had the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression even with your oh so awesome central banking in place. The only people who like this system are the few at the top benefiting from it.

    We're slaves to debt, period. We have had huge bubbles burst. Where is this stability? Where is the prosperity? Take all your crap about central banking and shove it right up your ass. People like you are going to destroy the dollar and say everything is fine while it is going on like Bernake is now.

    End the Fed. Enough, the American people want control of their money back.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    115
    Rep Points
    262.8
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    it isn't a temporary charter, it's permanent
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    the government opted not to renew their charters
    You are inconsistent with these two statements, so I'll call BS on this arguement. Any charter granted can be withdrawn. If you want to know why the previous FED versions failed, start here:

    http://www.federalreserveeducation.o...e-fed/history/

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Much healthier than the US as they run a surplus not crazy deficit spending.
    More BS. I have about 5 comebacks , but I'll state two.

    1. It's a fcuking communist counrty! If tomorrow they wanted to change course and tell everyone that they are now coal miners then thats what theyll do! No discussion, no negotiation, just edict! That's why when people ignorantly use terms like facist, marxist, socialist, etc to describe our political system, it drives me nuts.

    2. They do run deficits. Where do you think they get all this stimulus money they spend from the infrastructure plays they periodically do. Are you suggesting that we put out stimulus spending just because the economy has slowed?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Their per capita is lower but so what?
    Fcuking math is so what! Increasing per capita is incredibily hard, if you haven't noticed. Two math facts for you Dr.:

    1. increasing per capita by a $1 US across 1.3 billion people does a lot more relatively, then the same dollar increase across 300 million.

    2. If each one of those people are earning $100, then a $1 increase is a lot bigger gain then the same $1 increase for a country where each person earns $200.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The Japanese economy still has major problems and their printing of money hasn't solved anything. You call it stable? I call it an illusion. You wish it was stable, that is what the central banks are selling you and you are buying it.
    Do you make this isht up or does someone feed you this? The Japanese economy still hasn't recovered from their balance sheet driven bubbles of the early 90's. Get this idea and you are on your way to recovery, bubbbles bad are bad! That being said, their economy is uncollapsed, their currency is still a standard of measurement, the world still loans them money at the lowest rates available anywhere,...

    Since you see an illusion, then pull back the veil, and show me the reality that apparently only you see. The Bank of Japan, their FED aint selling me a fcuking thing. The US FED ain't selling me nothing either. Who is selling you your misguided view of how it works?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Oh, printing money doesn't devalue the currency?
    Not unless that money hits the economy, which it hasn't! Not unless demand, read employment and wages return, which they haven't!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    when the dollar value continues to decline?
    It declines because that is the current policy. It is a weak dollar policy, it has been all the time through interest rate adjustments. My guess is you don't get this. Every time a countries central bank adjusts interest rates they are adjusting the relative strength of their currency.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Is inflatoin increasing? Hasn't the fed said they are trying to create inflation?
    Inflation is always increasing, its the nature of fiat currency. I already told you this! If the non-transparent FED, which you now profess to be transparent about their inflation policy, is targeting higher inflation then they are attempting to grow the economy through policy. Higher inflation means dollar worth less later, therefore spend dollars now on risk assets to meet and/or beat inflation.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Dollar is worth less, goods cost more.
    No isht Sherlock! It has always been that way. Until the fiat currency system changes to some different monetary system, that won't change. You can revalue the dollar, declare a new currency, or other remedies, but we aren't there yet. If you want to see what happens to a collapsing currency real tiome, then look at what is happening to Iraq's curreny in the past few months or Zimbabwe as a big fail.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Go get some gasoline and come and tell me what a BS misconception this is.
    Already told you food, gas, etc., not a part of the FED inflation calc. Too volatile too make policy on!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's a failed system
    It is called capitalism. If it is so failed, then change it to the communist China system you keep bringing up. What succesful system do you see that is so great?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're slaves to debt
    You mght be a slave to debt, I hate that word, but I am not. I use debt to thrive, I don't let debt use me. It is just a tool, don't use it if you can't handle it!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Don't sit here and tell me BS about how everything is fine and dandy when we just had the biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression
    Never said everything is fine and dandy. Who uses that phrase anymore anyway? At least you got one thing right about the largest collapse sine the depression, but it didn't turn into a depression now did it?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    even with your oh so awesome central banking in place. The only people who like this system are the few at the top benefiting from it.
    It's not my awesome central bank, it just is what it is. I have benefitted from it and I am better off then I was four years ago!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Take all your crap about central banking and shove it right up your ass. People like you are going to destroy the dollar and say everything is fine while it is going on like Bernake is now.
    Awwww...you aren't getting mad are you? No crap, just facts or light as I call it. Whether I like it or not is immaterial. My dollars are working for my every day, you OTOH are working for your dollars. Everything is not fine, it is messy out there, but I control my own destiny, while you look at the rules as they presently are and give up. Your nihilism will consume you if you aren't careful. Quit having your tantrum, get off the floor and figure this isht out! There is no great savior that will lead you and your situation out of this!

    By the way, nothing is going up my ass, except during the hated prostate exam, and what comes out is what you keeping slipping and sliding on.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,845
    Rep Points
    31,574.1
    Mentioned
    2066 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    You are inconsistent with these two statements, so I'll call BS on this arguement. Any charter granted can be withdrawn. If you want to know why the previous FED versions failed, start here:

    http://www.federalreserveeducation.o...e-fed/history/
    What's inconsistent here? No kidding a charter can be withdrawn but they were set in 20 year spans. They opted NOT to renew it. Dying words of Andrew Jackson:

    "When asked what his greatest accomplishment had been during his two terms as President, Andrew Jackson replied "I killed the Bank." He was talking about the "Second Bank of the United States", which was our country's second central bank."

    So he stated his greatest accomplishment was killing the central bank, I wonder why? I wonder why Thomas Jefferson was so passionate about not giving an outside authority over the peoples money as well? No BS, fact.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    More BS. I have about 5 comebacks , but I'll state two.

    1. It's a fcuking communist counrty! If tomorrow they wanted to change course and tell everyone that they are now coal miners then thats what theyll do! No discussion, no negotiation, just edict! That's why when people ignorantly use terms like facist, marxist, socialist, etc to describe our political system, it drives me nuts.

    2. They do run deficits. Where do you think they get all this stimulus money they spend from the infrastructure plays they periodically do. Are you suggesting that we put out stimulus spending just because the economy has slowed?
    Excellent comebacks. This super healthy economy you want to pretend we have in the US has to borrow from the largest communist country on Earth to stay afloat, LOL.

    They run a surplus and purchase a large portion of our debt. Foreign holdings of our debt have only increased under this wonderful system. China can dictate US policy, a communist country. Splendid!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Fcuking math is so what! Increasing per capita is incredibily hard, if you haven't noticed. Two math facts for you Dr.:

    1. increasing per capita by a $1 US across 1.3 billion people does a lot more relatively, then the same dollar increase across 300 million.

    2. If each one of those people are earning $100, then a $1 increase is a lot bigger gain then the same $1 increase for a country where each person earns $200.
    So our per capita is higher but so is our cost for goods. You can live on China for less. This doesn't display health of the economy. The Chinese once again aren't in debt like we are and we aren't buying their debt, they are buying ours. Kind of hard for you to make this point when we are dependent on them purchasing our debt.

    Let's not even get into the trade imbalance, whoops.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Do you make this isht up or does someone feed you this? The Japanese economy still hasn't recovered from their balance sheet driven bubbles of the early 90's. Get this idea and you are on your way to recovery, bubbbles bad are bad! That being said, their economy is uncollapsed, their currency is still a standard of measurement, the world still loans them money at the lowest rates available anywhere,...

    Since you see an illusion, then pull back the veil, and show me the reality that apparently only you see. The Bank of Japan, their FED aint selling me a fcuking thing. The US FED ain't selling me nothing either. Who is selling you your misguided view of how it works?
    I just said the Japanese economy is not healthy and you just said they still haven't recovered. Sounds to me like I'm right on point.

    Secondly, bubbles are bad and I find it absolutely hilarious supposedly strong economies with central banking systems seem to be the ones riding these rollercoasters. If all these central banking systems are having bubbles pop don't you thinkyou shuld open your eyes?

    Just because their economy hasn't completely collapsed doesn't mean it's sick. Ours sure is and it's hurting the people. It may never collapse but that doesn't mean you might not see hyper-inflation at some point. That is evidence of a good thing. The Roman Empire took a long time to collapse doesn't mean it wasn't sick for a hell of a long time. Actually it was, for over 3 centuries and it was due to currency issues. Go ahead and ignore historical president thinking we are somehow special or different today.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Not unless that money hits the economy, which it hasn't! Not unless demand, read employment and wages return, which they haven't!
    The hell are you babbling about? They print money and buy debt. The Fed bought 61% of the debt and they did it by printing money out of thin air. That's a direct impact on the economy saying it hasn't "hit" it makes absolutely no sense and the inflation rate of the dollar goes 100% against what you are saying.

    Really nice of the Fed to print money and charge us interest on our own money. It's absolutely absurd. We can eliminate almost 2 trillion dollars of debt simply by passing legislation saying we aren't paying the Fed back interest on OUR OWN MONEY. $#@! them!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    It declines because that is the current policy. It is a weak dollar policy, it has been all the time through interest rate adjustments. My guess is you don't get this. Every time a countries central bank adjusts interest rates they are adjusting the relative strength of their currency.
    Yep, I've been saying this it's an intentional debasing of the currency. Thanks for agreeing with me. They will keep devaluing it thinking they can pay back the debt by lessening the value of the dollar. It's insane.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Inflation is always increasing, its the nature of fiat currency. I already told you this! If the non-transparent FED, which you now profess to be transparent about their inflation policy, is targeting higher inflation then they are attempting to grow the economy through policy. Higher inflation means dollar worth less later, therefore spend dollars now on risk assets to meet and/or beat inflation.
    Oh that's wonderful. And hasn't every Fiat currency eventually failed? We better peg our currency to something and quickly before things get out of control. It's probably already too late.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    No isht Sherlock! It has always been that way. Until the fiat currency system changes to some different monetary system, that won't change. You can revalue the dollar, declare a new currency, or other remedies, but we aren't there yet. If you want to see what happens to a collapsing currency real tiome, then look at what is happening to Iraq's curreny in the past few months or Zimbabwe as a big fail.
    No it hasn't always been that way it has been that way since the FED and especially once we got off the gold standard. If you look at the value of the dollar before that, it was very stable even increasing. So sorry, you are wrong.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Already told you food, gas, etc., not a part of the FED inflation calc. Too volatile too make policy on!
    Convenient. Let's just ignore it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    It is called capitalism. If it is so failed, then change it to the communist China system you keep bringing up. What succesful system do you see that is so great?
    No it isn't, it's not a free market. We have one bank that has a monopoly on our money. That isn't capitalism, it's called bull $#@!.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    You mght be a slave to debt, I hate that word, but I am not. I use debt to thrive, I don't let debt use me. It is just a tool, don't use it if you can't handle it!
    You are a slave to debt whether you want to be or not. You can pretend you aren't but every transaction you make when you are paying sales tax you are a slave to debt your government is paying off. Your money is being devalued right now and you are being hit by an inflation tax, hard. Nothing you can do about it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Never said everything is fine and dandy. Who uses that phrase anymore anyway? At least you got one thing right about the largest collapse sine the depression, but it didn't turn into a depression now did it?
    I just used it, effectively might I add.

    It depends how you calculate what a depression is. Regardless, a huge bubble popped and dragged the world down with it. I thought your oh so awesome central banking system was supposed to prevent that? How many economic bubbles have popped in the past century? History shows A LOT of failure, the system doesn't work. Unless you work for Goldman Sachs.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    It's not my awesome central bank, it just is what it is. I have benefitted from it and I am better off then I was four years ago!
    Oh then who cares about the nearly 50 million on food stamps then and record high unemployment. As long as you are better off, it's fine.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Awwww...you aren't getting mad are you?
    No I'm getting passionate.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    No crap, just facts or light as I call it. Whether I like it or not is immaterial. My dollars are working for my every day, you OTOH are working for your dollars. Everything is not fine, it is messy out there, but I control my own destiny, while you look at the rules as they presently are and give up. Your nihilism will consume you if you aren't careful. Quit having your tantrum, get off the floor and figure this isht out! There is no great savior that will lead you and your situation out of this!

    By the way, nothing is going up my ass, except during the hated prostate exam, and what comes out is what you keeping slipping and sliding on.
    You haven't posted any facts defending your point other than your opinion on you supposedly doing better. Your dollars are working for you? Ok, and that somehow means the economy is healthy?

    I'm working for my dollars? No offense, I'm sure financially I'm far more secure than you are. I'm just not blind.

    Of course there is no savior we are forever indebted just as they intended and it won't change until the currency is wiped out and they cut put a world central bank in place as the supposed savior. It's all heading towards that.

    It's a failed system, enjoy it while it lasts.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    115
    Rep Points
    262.8
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    What's inconsistent here?
    The inconsistency is in stating that one charter had to be renewed, but wasn't and the other charter is indefinite. Any charter can be changed or withdrawn as necessary by the grantor. Else the statement "End the FED" has no meaning.

    Dying words of Andrew Jackson: blah.. .blah...President, Andrew Jackson replied:blah...blah...
    Quoting two old dead patriots for statements made unique to their time and trying to apply that to current times is a stretch at best. They have no contextual basis for our current situation, unless you try to make that connection.

    China can dictate US policy
    China can't dictate isht to the US. The reason they buy the debt is for their own purposes. Our debt is sold into a free market mechanism where the highest bidder wins. That could be France, Germany, Canada, US citizens or whomever They have purchased that debt to gain advantageous entry to our large, wealthy, over-consuming economy. Without these purchases the currency pegs we have been talking about would be volatile and out of their control. We aren't dependent on the Chinese buying our debt, we just need buyers to set market prices to our debt. These buyers could be anyone, that's how a market place works.

    They run a surplus
    I believe the Chinese government has run a budget deficit every year except for 2008. They have a debt of approx. 40% of their GDP. Check out the CIA world factbook for actual information or some other source that can be trusted , causes your sources are making you sound ignorant.

    This super healthy economy you want to pretend we have in the US
    I never said we had a super healthy economy, your words, not mine. We do have one of the cleanest dirty shirts in the laundry basket of economies though (how you like that metaphor?).

    Let's not even get into the trade imbalance, whoops.
    I know you are struggling to understand this, but the trade imbalance is a result of the strong dollar, which flows from the Chinese buying our debt to prop up the dollar. If the dollar decreases relatively, the trade imbalance shrinks, it really is that simple.

    I just said the Japanese economy is not healthy and you just said they still haven't recovered. Sounds to me like I'm right on point.
    Not healthy is not equivalent to still hasn't recovered. If your point was that they are equivalent, your wrong.

    If all these central banking systems are having bubbles pop don't you thinkyou shuld open your eyes?
    Bubbles are bad and the US economy has been running on them for years. The most recent housing bubble was not a surprise, people did warn about them, but nobody listened including the FED. They had the opportunity to deflate them, but let them pop. The party was jumping and no one wanted it to stopped until it failed under its own excess. Then the fingers started pointing. Greenspan and Bernanke both have fingerprints all over the bubbles and the resulting scum from the popping.

    The hell are you babbling about? They print money and buy debt.
    You really don't understand what the FED is doing do you? That's probably why you think there is no transparency. Let me try to explain, but I don't hold out high hopes for your understanding, maybe someone else will get it. It hasn't hit because the banks and corporations are not circulating this money into the economy. They are holding it on their balance sheet, and to a much lesser extent consumers aren't spending dollars, they are paying down debt.

    The FED buys debt through QE's, twist, or whatever policy they come up with. The debt they buy is some kind of instrument like mortgage back securities(MBS) or government notes and bonds. They bought MBS to re-liquidate a market that had locked up and threatened to send the US into a depression. They buy government debt to drive the dollar lower, primarily to drive capital into riskier assets so that investors look for return rather then safety. The only way they get this money is by turning on the dollar printing presses (not literally mind you, but through their balance sheet). The government pays the FED interest this debt earns (currently at 1.3% of GDP, near a post WW II low). The FED immediately refunds the interest payment to the US Treasury. While this sounds ponzi-ish, and strictly speaking it probably is, the policy goal is for the US government to retire the debt in the future once growth has returned and long term interest rates have returned to more normal levels. When interest rates rise the value of the FEDs debt purchases will decrease, allowing the government to retire debt at a discount. Will it work? Who the hell knows, there are a lot of assumptions and large events that could change to derail it.

    We better peg our currency to something
    ...the gold standard...
    I already told you currency pegs don't work long term. What would you peg the currency to? Pegging the currency to gold will only work if the government controls gold. That means the pile of gold you bought will be seized by the government as private ownership of gold will be illegal. You will buy and sell gold through the government as they will control its value. In the last ten years gold has gone from $300 to $1700, what does that do to your peg? With governments in control of gold, they will just adjust their reserves through buys and sells to control their currencies.

    As long as you are better off, it's fine.
    My being better off financially means that I am contributing to the health of the economy. If my dollars are working for me that means that I am contributing to the economy, as I don't make my money in the black market or by crime. I am not crying about how things have all gone to isht. I am doing bidness.

    I'm sure financially I'm far more secure than you are.
    Your or my wealth is irrelevant, unless you have some measurement stick to go by and want to put some skin on the line for the outcome! You want to do a Romney bet?

    You haven't posted any facts defending your point other than your opinion
    You keep talking about my opinion yet that's all you are spewing. Most of everything that I have told you can be looked up. Most of your response has been disparate ideas and thoughts spun into a narrative that fits your world view. If you upgrade where you get your knowledge from and act on it accordingly you might become more financially secure then you claim you are!

    Monetary policy has to walk lockstep with fiscal policy, which has been an abject failure. Every FED chairman testimony to congress I have ever seen has indicated to the legislative bodies that fiscal policy must change. It has never been adequate to meet the challenges we face. They bicker and point fingers, but don't fix isht. The FED then steps in and does probably too much to fix the situation, and we let them. Therein lies the crux of the problem!

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I want to learn a lot about money, but I don't want to read...

    tl;dr
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    115
    Rep Points
    262.8
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I want to learn a lot about money, but I don't want to read...

    tl;dr
    Can't fool me CAD/CAM man. The manual you must have read to do the manifold simulation in another thread must have been massive.

    Click here to enlarge

    A great way to let your dollars work for you is to trade Forex as a noob is through etf's. Stay with the major currency pairs for liquidity, depth of market knowledge available and somewhat lessened volatility. There are enough currencies around the world with different movements wrt the dollar and economic sectors that you can always play. Assuming you already invest or trade, the same fundamental or technical tools you use in the equity and debt arena apply to the Forex markets.

    This should be a thread by itself, as I know there are other Forex traders on this site.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,845
    Rep Points
    31,574.1
    Mentioned
    2066 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    The inconsistency is in stating that one charter had to be renewed, but wasn't and the other charter is indefinite. Any charter can be changed or withdrawn as necessary by the grantor. Else the statement "End the FED" has no meaning.
    Um ok whatever you are talking about the point is the US opted not to renew the charter, they said they did not want this central banking system and wisely gave it a charter with a set expiration date that could be renewed. We weren't stuck with it like we are now. Ending the Fed would require legislation:

    The efforts to renew the Bank's charter put the institution at the center of the general election of 1832, in which BUS president Nicholas Biddle and pro-Bank National Republicans clashed with the "hard-money"Andrew Jackson administration and eastern banking interests in the Bank War.[1 Failing to secure recharter, the Second Bank of the United States became a private corporation in 1836,[21][22] and underwent liquidation in 1841.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Quoting two old dead patriots for statements made unique to their time and trying to apply that to current times is a stretch at best. They have no contextual basis for our current situation, unless you try to make that connection.
    I'm sorry, no stretch see the above quote and see how central banking played a huge part. If you want to not pay attention to history go right ahead. I think great leaders in the past understood the importance of sound money and how debt can be your enemy. You act like debt and money are new concepts that can only be understood today yet banking and economics have been around for far longer.

    Your answer is essentially "oh that was a long time ago" and you are dismissing it. Sad, and ignorant.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    China can't dictate isht to the US. The reason they buy the debt is for their own purposes. Our debt is sold into a free market mechanism where the highest bidder wins. That could be France, Germany, Canada, US citizens or whomever They have purchased that debt to gain advantageous entry to our large, wealthy, over-consuming economy. Without these purchases the currency pegs we have been talking about would be volatile and out of their control. We aren't dependent on the Chinese buying our debt, we just need buyers to set market prices to our debt. These buyers could be anyone, that's how a market place works.
    Actually they can when they hold over 10% of the debt and have become the largest creditor to the United States. If they stop buying bonds we are in trouble. So China can always use this as a threat. If they dumped the dollar as their reserve it would be more catastrophic than war. Sorry, I'm not comfortable with a communist foreign entity having that kind of power over the US.

    Large, wealthy, economy? They buy the debt because if they don't the US economy will fail and we won't buy their products. They are rapidly trying to expand other markets because they are sick of buying our debt which we turn around and devalue essentially pissing on them for doing it because we think we can. This won't last forever. It's coming to an end.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    I believe the Chinese government has run a budget deficit every year except for 2008. They have a debt of approx. 40% of their GDP. Check out the CIA world factbook for actual information or some other source that can be trusted , causes your sources are making you sound ignorant.
    Looks to me like you need to check yours because you have no idea what is going on: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0d391b9e-2...#axzz2C8fXH4y4China trade surplus biggest in nearly four years

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    I never said we had a super healthy economy, your words, not mine. We do have one of the cleanest dirty shirts in the laundry basket of economies though (how you like that metaphor?).
    In your opinion? The same opinion that thinks the Federal Reserve is a good system? Ya... not putting any stock in your opinion. Because fact of the matter is we are in very deep debt and in serious trouble. Go raise the debt ceiling a few more times see how that works out.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    I know you are struggling to understand this, but the trade imbalance is a result of the strong dollar, which flows from the Chinese buying our debt to prop up the dollar. If the dollar decreases relatively, the trade imbalance shrinks, it really is that simple.
    It's from a weak dollar actually making our goods cheaper to buy and devaluing our debt and secondly we don't produce anything here any longer. All well sell now is debt, cool so awesome. Yes it is simple, and it's stupid.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Not healthy is not equivalent to still hasn't recovered. If your point was that they are equivalent, your wrong.
    You just agreed to me it isn't healthy so thanks again.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Bubbles are bad and the US economy has been running on them for years. The most recent housing bubble was not a surprise, people did warn about them, but nobody listened including the FED. They had the opportunity to deflate them, but let them pop. The party was jumping and no one wanted it to stopped until it failed under its own excess. Then the fingers started pointing. Greenspan and Bernanke both have fingerprints all over the bubbles and the resulting scum from the popping.
    Wait a second, the Fed didn't prevent the bubble? It made it worse? Oh no, how did that happen with this amazing system that's supposed to do the opposite?

    Greenspan and Bernanke have their fingerprints on it? You don't say.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    You really don't understand what the FED is doing do you? That's probably why you think there is no transparency. Let me try to explain, but I don't hold out high hopes for your understanding, maybe someone else will get it. It hasn't hit because the banks and corporations are not circulating this money into the economy. They are holding it on their balance sheet, and to a much lesser extent consumers aren't spending dollars, they are paying down debt.
    There is no transparency. They do whatever they want and don't tell the American people what they do with their money:



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    The FED buys debt through QE's, twist, or whatever policy they come up with. The debt they buy is some kind of instrument like mortgage back securities(MBS) or government notes and bonds. They bought MBS to re-liquidate a market that had locked up and threatened to send the US into a depression. They buy government debt to drive the dollar lower, primarily to drive capital into riskier assets so that investors look for return rather then safety. The only way they get this money is by turning on the dollar printing presses (not literally mind you, but through their balance sheet). The government pays the FED interest this debt earns (currently at 1.3% of GDP, near a post WW II low). The FED immediately refunds the interest payment to the US Treasury. While this sounds ponzi-ish, and strictly speaking it probably is, the policy goal is for the US government to retire the debt in the future once growth has returned and long term interest rates have returned to more normal levels. When interest rates rise the value of the FEDs debt purchases will decrease, allowing the government to retire debt at a discount. Will it work? Who the hell knows, there are a lot of assumptions and large events that could change to derail it.
    All QE happens to be is printing money. This is a "policy" you are referring to.

    It sounds ponzi-ish? We are being charged on our own money and the private banks that own the Fed laugh all the way to the bank. It's infuriating.



    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    I already told you currency pegs don't work long term. What would you peg the currency to? Pegging the currency to gold will only work if the government controls gold. That means the pile of gold you bought will be seized by the government as private ownership of gold will be illegal. You will buy and sell gold through the government as they will control its value. In the last ten years gold has gone from $300 to $1700, what does that do to your peg? With governments in control of gold, they will just adjust their reserves through buys and sells to control their currencies.
    And I already told you that you are wrong. Gold always has value yet fiat currencies historically always have failed. Ours is failing and the value is dropping like a rock. Gold is going up. I'd rather be pegged to something, thanks.

    Gold hasn't gone up as much as the dollar has gone down. You look at oil and gold and an ounce of gold is pretty flat in comparison to the price of oil. It's dollars changing in value and going down that is the problem.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    My being better off financially means that I am contributing to the health of the economy. If my dollars are working for me that means that I am contributing to the economy, as I don't make my money in the black market or by crime. I am not crying about how things have all gone to isht. I am doing bidness.
    Too bad you are accepting what is going on instead of doing something about it. The people, just like yourself, simply keep going down the road in a broken car instead of fixing it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    Your or my wealth is irrelevant, unless you have some measurement stick to go by and want to put some skin on the line for the outcome! You want to do a Romney bet?
    This just sounds odd to me but the point is just because I may be ok doesn't mean everyone is. Your point is "my dollars are working" ok but that in no way proves the system works for everyone.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yage202 Click here to enlarge
    You keep talking about my opinion yet that's all you are spewing. Most of everything that I have told you can be looked up. Most of your response has been disparate ideas and thoughts spun into a narrative that fits your world view. If you upgrade where you get your knowledge from and act on it accordingly you might become more financially secure then you claim you are!
    It's your job to look it up and support your points. Not my job to try to make your argument for you. I don't know where to look frankly to come to the conclusion that our fiscal policy is sound because everywhere I look I see a falling dollar, rising prices, inflation, bubbled, and now a fiscal cliff. Everything is negative and getting worse yet you are telling me the world is fine because you are making your dollars "work" for you. Wake the $#@! up!

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    6,225
    Rep Points
    6,760.8
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    68


    Reputation: Yes | No
    There are two theories to arguing with women. Neither one works

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    115
    Rep Points
    262.8
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Good vid to explain how we got to now! I wish more people would watch this every time they say they are tired of talking about Bush and his policies.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •