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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    badass S54 3.5 stroker for an upcoming shop project
    Would love more details on this.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    There are about 5 companies that have been used....it will take about $20k minimum to get setup...closer to $30k if you go with the more reliable units from a UK manufacturer. Then you have rebuilds.....
    please explain rebuilds.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    We are dealers for Quaife, Drenth and Samsonas gearboxes.

    Samsonas has a great mid level solution - a proper dog box that fits in a stock BMW transmisson case. They are ~$6500 and work like a champ. We run one in our E46 touring car and everyone who drives/rents the car LOVES it. There are cars across the world running these with no issues...some 600++ hp EVOs and STIs.

    http://www.quaife.co.uk
    http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com
    http://samsonas.com
    the dogbox 6speed ratios from samsonas looks promising. are the costs involved close to what PEI above mentioned?

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    please explain rebuilds.



    the dogbox 6speed ratios from samsonas looks promising. are the costs involved close to what PEI above mentioned?
    My perspective is from the race track....so when I mention costs, and rebuilds, it's from being around people that are spending that kind of money, and sending the transmissions off for regular rebuilds at the manufacturers recommendation.

    Of note, there is a big difference between a H-pattern dogbox transmission and a sequential transmission as far as costs and rebuild intervals. Some of the transmissions I've mentioned, and are listed on the website links above, are sequentials.

    The big issue with any transmission is the torque through-put capability. HP is irrelivant, but is often quoted to give some means of matching up a candidate to an engine package.

    A dogbox puts more stress on drivetrain components, so you need to be prepared to chase the weakest link a bit after an initial installation. I was involved with one race team that went from highly modified OEM transmissions, to BMW Motorsport dog box transmissions, and eventually to Xtrac sequential transmissions. At each step, there were different parts breaking in the driveline that needed to be addressed.

    My point about costs, and installation in general, is that the up-front costs from a hardware prospective, usually aren't the full picture.

    Not trying give VAC Motorsports a hard time...just sharing my experience.

    Edit: Rebuilds are usually for shaft bearing replacements, and some shims. Both get a lot of "shock" load put on them. It's also a lot easier to replace a single gear cluster that has some chips...than to replace the entire gear set after one shatters. Preventive maintenance in this case is a lot less expense than waiting for parts to fail....
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  4. #29
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    We sell a lot of gearboxes to hill climb, rally and circuit racers. Most international, ironically.

    The top 3 RWD hill climb cars in Lebanon are running Samsonas drop in dog boxes. At the price point there is nothing finer. One just bought a Quaife sequential from us since that is a superior (and much more costly) solution.

    We have top placing clients in Europe, northern Africa, Aus/NZ running Drenth, Tractive, Quaife and now Samsonas boxes that we supplied with absolute success. Most of the time, these clients know exactly what they need to be competitive so we help match them with the best possible product at their price point. XTrac is far beyond the reach of most of our clients but we do offer them as well. (boxes start at 25k and go to the moon) We have 2 Quaife sequentials in stock btw Click here to enlarge

  5. #30
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    We sell a lot of gearboxes to hill climb, rally and circuit racers. Most international, ironically.

    The top 3 RWD hill climb cars in Lebanon are running Samsonas drop in dog boxes. At the price point there is nothing finer. One just bought a Quaife sequential from us since that is a superior (and much more costly) solution.

    We have top placing clients in Europe, northern Africa, Aus/NZ running Drenth, Tractive, Quaife and now Samsonas boxes that we supplied with absolute success. Most of the time, these clients know exactly what they need to be competitive so we help match them with the best possible product at their price point. XTrac is far beyond the reach of most of our clients but we do offer them as well. (boxes start at 25k and go to the moon) We have 2 Quaife sequentials in stock btw Click here to enlarge
    For the sake of discussion, would you be able to match up a recommend "Upgrade" transmission for the following street car configurations:

    N/A S54 with bolt-ons - 380 nm

    S54 with SC kit - 480 nm

    S54 with HPF Stage 2 - 720 nm

    S54 with HPF stage 4 - 1050 nm

    The package should include the bell housing, shift mechanism, clutch if required, hydraulic throw-out bearing if required, and driveshaft as needed. Most of the time when using a product like the beautiful Drenth pieces, all of these items need to be included in the installation package.

    Again, I'm not knocking any of the options that VAC offers (I actually love the drench stuff), just commenting on my personal experiences in working with these types of products. For my own project, a bellhousing turned into a $2,000 part as an example....
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  6. #31
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    As you know we don't recommend any of these transmission for street use. Our typical race client is not making monster TQ like seen with FI kits.

    If I find some time I can theorize, but I need to focus on selling parts right now in the shop. We are down on guys so things have been crazy!!

    I'm not taking your posts as a knock, I only speak from the company's experience which thankfully is pretty vast. (one of the reasons I left a cushy job to come here)

    btw I'm into old Supras and I know all about custom projects since there is no aftermarket for my old bucket. I had a one off, lightweight and mega strong spun steel adapter bellhousing made at a pretty stiff cost. Damn $$$ pit.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    As you know we don't recommend any of these transmission for street use. Our typical race client is not making monster TQ like seen with FI kits.

    If I find some time I can theorize, but I need to focus on selling parts right now in the shop. We are down on guys so things have been crazy!!

    I'm not taking your posts as a knock, I only speak from the company's experience which thankfully is pretty vast. (one of the reasons I left a cushy job to come here)

    btw I'm into old Supras and I know all about custom projects since there is no aftermarket for my old bucket. I had a one off, lightweight and mega strong spun steel adapter bellhousing made at a pretty stiff cost. Damn $$$ pit.
    Mike,

    I for one appreciate you taking the time to participate in the discussion here.

    This topic (aftermarket transmissions) has very little information available publicly for the average BMW enthusiast, so it's really nice to see dreikraft's questions being addressed.

    SFI has a point, but holy crap does it take some $$$.....
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  8. #33
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    And if anyone want's to really scare themselves....contact Ricardo....
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  9. #34
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    Great subject. Adam is right as we know nothing about aftermarket transmissions. Mike what trans is in Paul's hillclimber E46? A Quaife?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    And if anyone want's to really scare themselves....contact Ricardo....
    I know i know. Click here to enlarge I contacted those Brits when i had my racecar craze in my early 20's. The exact trans i wanted would cost more than the whole car Click here to enlarge

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    I know i know. Click here to enlarge I contacted those Brits when i had my racecar craze in my early 20's. The exact trans i wanted would cost more than the whole car Click here to enlarge
    They are also incredibly secretive.

    Ricardo will discuss your exact application, but they very rarely quote any examples in great detail. But...if you wanted to have a 7 speed dual clutch transmission, with AWD and electronic diff control for over 1000hp...they are apparently the people to talk to. Click here to enlarge
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    Mike,

    I for one appreciate you taking the time to participate in the discussion here.

    This topic (aftermarket transmissions) has very little information available publicly for the average BMW enthusiast, so it's really nice to see dreikraft's questions being addressed.

    SFI has a point, but holy crap does it take some $$$.....
    i'm learning alot too.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    For the sake of discussion, would you be able to match up a recommend "Upgrade" transmission for the following street car configurations:

    N/A S54 with bolt-ons - 380 nm

    S54 with SC kit - 480 nm

    S54 with HPF Stage 2 - 720 nm

    S54 with HPF stage 4 - 1050 nm

    The package should include the bell housing, shift mechanism, clutch if required, hydraulic throw-out bearing if required, and driveshaft as needed. Most of the time when using a product like the beautiful Drenth pieces, all of these items need to be included in the installation package.

    Again, I'm not knocking any of the options that VAC offers (I actually love the drench stuff), just commenting on my personal experiences in working with these types of products. For my own project, a bellhousing turned into a $2,000 part as an example....
    mike - if you get some time please go through the recommendation requests that pei posted above.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    For the sake of discussion, would you be able to match up a recommend "Upgrade" transmission for the following street car configurations:

    N/A S54 with bolt-ons - 380 nm

    S54 with SC kit - 480 nm

    S54 with HPF Stage 2 - 720 nm

    S54 with HPF stage 4 - 1050 nm

    The package should include the bell housing, shift mechanism, clutch if required, hydraulic throw-out bearing if required, and driveshaft as needed. Most of the time when using a product like the beautiful Drenth pieces, all of these items need to be included in the installation package.

    Again, I'm not knocking any of the options that VAC offers (I actually love the drench stuff), just commenting on my personal experiences in working with these types of products. For my own project, a bellhousing turned into a $2,000 part as an example....
    ^ THIS!

  13. #38
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Soooooo, we opted out of VANOS for our 3.5 shop monster build. Of course, we these bad boys in stock Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge (these are the big lift units)

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    (these are the big lift units)
    How big? And can still be used with VANOS right?

  15. #40
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    No VANOS with these.

    Click here to enlarge

  16. #41
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    I expect some CRAZY top end with those!

    Definitely keep us posted. Click here to enlarge
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
    2009 E90 M3 DCT | Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth

  17. #42
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    I'd love to see a dyno chart with those installed...

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    For the sake of discussion, would you be able to match up a recommend "Upgrade" transmission for the following street car configurations:

    N/A S54 with bolt-ons - 380 nm

    S54 with SC kit - 480 nm

    S54 with HPF Stage 2 - 720 nm

    S54 with HPF stage 4 - 1050 nm

    The package should include the bell housing, shift mechanism, clutch if required, hydraulic throw-out bearing if required, and driveshaft as needed. Most of the time when using a product like the beautiful Drenth pieces, all of these items need to be included in the installation package.

    Again, I'm not knocking any of the options that VAC offers (I actually love the drench stuff), just commenting on my personal experiences in working with these types of products. For my own project, a bellhousing turned into a $2,000 part as an example....
    *cough* cough

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Schrick isn't joking about using "their" rocker arms.....cams that big chew up the OEM pieces. The ones used in endurance racing are cycled with a nitrogen enrichment heat-treatment, super-finishing, and finally DLC coating.

    Nice progress Mike! This thing should be a monster!
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    *cough* cough
    I would suggest to start a new thread....I mistakenly pulled this one too far OT with my request.
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  21. #46
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    @Sticky - can you pull the off topic posts regarding dogbox transmissions from this thread to create a new one please?

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky - can you pull the off topic posts regarding dogbox transmissions from this thread to create a new one please?
    Yes but remind me with another mention please.

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