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    Vanos delete for S54

    Anyone here have any results? I know VAC has a kit and I am seriously contemplating on using it. Next year I am not planning on DD'ing my M3 so I won't need the low end power of the Vanos, but I know it's a lot involved in removing the Vanos. Just trying to see or hear some results to see if it's worth it. My car will see some HPDE events and Autox but mostly a lot of highway racing. How worthy is the Vanos in the mid range?

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    As you already stated, @Mike@VAC is who to talk to about this.

    I think it makes sense only on a dedicated race car and not a street car. If you want to highway race, just go forced induction.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    While Forced Induction is definitely the obvious way to make stupid amounts of power. After reevaluation of finances and buying a home soon I have no intensions for seeing much over/under 400 rwhp. I intend to stay N/A for quite some time and invest the rest in a house.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    While Forced Induction is definitely the obvious way to make stupid amounts of power. After reevaluation of finances and buying a home soon I have no intensions for seeing much over/under 400 rwhp. I intend to stay N/A for quite some time and invest the rest in a house.
    It honestly will cost you more money to stay NA and seek big power.

    Since this is a street car I strongly recommend you keep VANOS.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Do not get rid of the VANOS on the S54. It's an amazing thing, and if you've ever looked at the stock cam profile the car will be dead for 70% of the RPM range, and even then may not be able to deliver peak power.

    That kit is meant for aftermarket cams, head, bottom end etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Zak@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Do not get rid of the VANOS on the S54. It's an amazing thing, and if you've ever looked at the stock cam profile the car will be dead for 70% of the RPM range, and even then may not be able to deliver peak power.

    That kit is meant for aftermarket cams, head, bottom end etc.
    Listen to this.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Variable cams are always a win.. its a changing cam profile.. how could that not be a positive. The only negative is 'more moving parts' that and a race car is generally in a particular rpm range for most of its use, so they tune around that.. regardless of its affects on other portions of the power band. Removing the Vanos from anything but a dedicated race/drag car wouldn't be a good idea. Even on a dedicated race/drag car it has benefits.. but its also just one more thing to go wrong.

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    Does HPF tune their cars with using VANOS?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mikecoupe Click here to enlarge
    Does HPF tune their cars with using VANOS?
    They keep VANOS.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Don't delete your VANOS. As others have mentioned, you will lose a lot of power.

    If you want to stay N/A, I recommend the following:

    Supersprint V1 Stepped Headers . V1 SPipe (catless) . XPipe . Sport Muffler
    Evolve Automotive or Epic Motorsports Tune
    3.91 or 4.10 Gears
    A freer flowing drop in filter
    Macht Schnell Intake Elbow
    Under Drive Pulleys

    That pretty much maximizes your gains with "simple" NA bolt ons and should result in 315-325whp on a DynoJet. You could go crazier with cams, but things start to get very expensive. The gears alone will make you very fast on the highway, especially if you can shift well.

    Speaking from the perspective of someone who has heavily invested in the NA platform, for similar pricing, I could have gotten an ESS VT1-445, VFE VF420, or even an AA Stage 1. But I am just too loyal to the NA S54B32 to add some psi, haha.
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
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    stroker

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    Don't delete your VANOS. As others have mentioned, you will lose a lot of power.

    If you want to stay N/A, I recommend the following:

    Supersprint V1 Stepped Headers . V1 SPipe (catless) . XPipe . Sport Muffler
    Evolve Automotive or Epic Motorsports Tune
    3.91 or 4.10 Gears
    A freer flowing drop in filter
    Macht Schnell Intake Elbow
    Under Drive Pulleys

    That pretty much maximizes your gains with "simple" NA bolt ons and should result in 315-325whp on a DynoJet. You could go crazier with cams, but things start to get very expensive. The gears alone will make you very fast on the highway, especially if you can shift well.

    Speaking from the perspective of someone who has heavily invested in the NA platform, for similar pricing, I could have gotten an ESS VT1-445, VFE VF420, or even an AA Stage 1. But I am just too loyal to the NA S54B32 to add some psi, haha.
    Appreciate what everyone has said. I will be keeping the Vanos most definitely. I was just curious to hear the gains of doing so to see if it fits my needs. Guess not. I will be keeping the stock gears as the car is geared perfectly. For my exhaust I will be buying the VAC/Fabspeed headers since VAC has proven time and time again that they work and using the Bimmerworld 3.5" single for max power. No other exhaust from what I have seen makes more power than the Bimmerworld single. And I will be tuned with Epic. I already have VAC UDP's and an AFE intake so that is covered for now. I figure dropping $7k or so in some NA mods will fit my needs and budget and have seen the VAC Vanos delete kit with their head package, Schrick cams, on a stock block car that made impressive power so I got curious.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    They keep VANOS.
    I seem to remember that they don,t tune the VANOS.

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    Gents,

    There is a point...with a really really big cam, that changing the cam timing across RPM, doesn't help within our fairly narrow RPM band. (Approximately 3000 RPM across)

    If you have one of these cam setups....you would know exactly where to lock them down. (Eliminate Vanos) The cam manufacturer is usually pretty involved in designing the cam for the application, so they supply what this value should be.

    I have a practical example of this recently....but unfortunately I can't share that data. It was on a race specific application, where I don't believe the car even idled below 2000 RPM.....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    Variable cams are always a win.. its a changing cam profile.. how could that not be a positive. The only negative is 'more moving parts' that and a race car is generally in a particular rpm range for most of its use, so they tune around that.. regardless of its affects on other portions of the power band. Removing the Vanos from anything but a dedicated race/drag car wouldn't be a good idea. Even on a dedicated race/drag car it has benefits.. but its also just one more thing to go wrong.
    Just to clarify, I agree with your comments with OEM cams.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I set up a VANOS delete on a built C-Mod S54 racecar running an AEM (big pile o junk) standalone. He got WALKED out of the turns by the other C-mod cars running VANOS, even though he had much more top end power. It was bad enough that he bought a used Motec and Sakata harness from a Grand Am team and had me set the VANOS back up on the car. The car was unstoppable after that - first BMW C-Mod car under 2:00 at VIR.

    Without a close ratio crashbox, built motor, proper cams, etc, the VANOS will be better all around. Race builders such as Dinan remove the VANOS on the V8 Grand Am motors because they have 1) huge engine budgets, 2) close ratio sequential gearboxes with customizable ratios, and 3) saves about 10HP on a V8 4-cam VANOS. I'm sure you could build an S54 w/o VANOS for a serious track beast, but not without a 6-figure budget.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    I set up a VANOS delete on a built C-Mod S54 racecar running an AEM (big pile o junk) standalone. He got WALKED out of the turns by the other C-mod cars running VANOS, even though he had much more top end power. It was bad enough that he bought a used Motec and Sakata harness from a Grand Am team and had me set the VANOS back up on the car. The car was unstoppable after that - first BMW C-Mod car under 2:00 at VIR.

    Without a close ratio crashbox, built motor, proper cams, etc, the VANOS will be better all around. Race builders such as Dinan remove the VANOS on the V8 Grand Am motors because they have 1) huge engine budgets, 2) close ratio sequential gearboxes with customizable ratios, and 3) saves about 10HP on a V8 4-cam VANOS. I'm sure you could build an S54 w/o VANOS for a serious track beast, but not without a 6-figure budget.
    I agree with you 100% James.

    The Watts car you mention above is a pretty powerful case and point of the advantages of VANOS.

    Also, the cams I'm referencing being "locked down" have in the area of 30 degrees more duration than OEM S54 pieces.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    It's pretty much been covered by Zak, James etc.

    Street car - run VANOS. We have a few street guys who want the cool idle/simplicity, so they run without VANOS. It's not 'bad' but you will make less usable power/tq without VANOS.

    Track car - VANOS is def best for the large majority of people, esp club racers/track day guys etc. We sell 99% of of the VANOS delete kits to hardcore racers with properly sorted cars (engine, cams, tuning, gear box, diff ratio) They also have drivers who know how to drive a non VANOS car.

    We are wrapping up a badass S54 3.5 stroker for an upcoming shop project and we are debating on keeping VANOS. The decision has not been made yet, but there is a serious internal debate going ;-)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    It's pretty much been covered by Zak, James etc.

    Street car - run VANOS. We have a few street guys who want the cool idle/simplicity, so they run without VANOS. It's not 'bad' but you will make less usable power/tq without VANOS.

    Track car - VANOS is def best for the large majority of people, esp club racers/track day guys etc. We sell 99% of of the VANOS delete kits to hardcore racers with properly sorted cars (engine, cams, tuning, gear box, diff ratio) They also have drivers who know how to drive a non VANOS car.

    We are wrapping up a badass S54 3.5 stroker for an upcoming shop project and we are debating on keeping VANOS. The decision has not been made yet, but there is a serious internal debate going ;-)
    Hopefully you post the numbers. I am incredibly interested.

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    i wonder how the swede e21 turbo s54 does in the low/mid range

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    I set up a VANOS delete on a built C-Mod S54 racecar running an AEM (big pile o junk) standalone. He got WALKED out of the turns by the other C-mod cars running VANOS, even though he had much more top end power. It was bad enough that he bought a used Motec and Sakata harness from a Grand Am team and had me set the VANOS back up on the car. The car was unstoppable after that - first BMW C-Mod car under 2:00 at VIR.

    Without a close ratio crashbox, built motor, proper cams, etc, the VANOS will be better all around. Race builders such as Dinan remove the VANOS on the V8 Grand Am motors because they have 1) huge engine budgets, 2) close ratio sequential gearboxes with customizable ratios, and 3) saves about 10HP on a V8 4-cam VANOS. I'm sure you could build an S54 w/o VANOS for a serious track beast, but not without a 6-figure budget.
    im very interested in knowing more about these gearboxes. you don't have any addtional information on manufacturer or availability do you?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    im very interested in knowing more about these gearboxes. you don't have any addtional information on manufacturer or availability do you?
    There are about 5 companies that have been used....it will take about $20k minimum to get setup...closer to $30k if you go with the more reliable units from a UK manufacturer. Then you have rebuilds.....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Appreciate what everyone has said. I will be keeping the Vanos most definitely. I was just curious to hear the gains of doing so to see if it fits my needs. Guess not. I will be keeping the stock gears as the car is geared perfectly. For my exhaust I will be buying the VAC/Fabspeed headers since VAC has proven time and time again that they work and using the Bimmerworld 3.5" single for max power. No other exhaust from what I have seen makes more power than the Bimmerworld single. And I will be tuned with Epic. I already have VAC UDP's and an AFE intake so that is covered for now. I figure dropping $7k or so in some NA mods will fit my needs and budget and have seen the VAC Vanos delete kit with their head package, Schrick cams, on a stock block car that made impressive power so I got curious.
    Daily Driving + Bimmerworld 3.5" Race and Street Exhaust = NOT FUN!!

    Seriously, the BW 3.5" EXPONENTIALLY increases volume and drone. I have a couple friends who bought them for their street/track cars (one Race and one Street) both sold them instantly solely because of the volume. Trust me, I almost pulled the trigger myself on getting one, especially when the Street 3.5" was released. I was heavily advised not to and I'm glad I didn't since I, too, daily drive my car. Not sure if it matters to you or not, but there is serious drop in power in the lower powerband as well.

    I have heard a full Supersprint Stepped Header, catless SPipe, resonator-less XPipe, Race Muffler. That full Supersprint setup was quieter than the BW 3.5".

    Just my opinion. Look at most of the threads on other forums and see why people sell their Bimmerworld 3.5" exhausts. Truth is, it is the most power making exhaust out there, but not practical for the street. It opens up a lot of potential for tuning too!

    The VAC/Fabspeed headers really are great! My friends shop often times recommends it to their clients. If I didn't have the Supersprint Stepped Headers, I would go with Status Gruppe Tuning or VAC/Fabspeed in a heartbeat!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    im very interested in knowing more about these gearboxes. you don't have any addtional information on manufacturer or availability do you?
    We are dealers for Quaife, Drenth and Samsonas gearboxes.

    Samsonas has a great mid level solution - a proper dog box that fits in a stock BMW transmisson case. They are ~$6500 and work like a champ. We run one in our E46 touring car and everyone who drives/rents the car LOVES it. There are cars across the world running these with no issues...some 600++ hp EVOs and STIs.

    http://www.quaife.co.uk
    http://www.drenth-gearboxes.com
    http://samsonas.com

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully you post the numbers. I am incredibly interested.
    I will def document this one!

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