Close

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 113

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Yes Reputation No

    ASR Closed-Intake Installed!

    Hey guys, the new ASR intake is now in final production and ready for sale and distribution. I was really impressed by the final form, the powder-coating is flawless and the brackets and fitment was perfect. The welds are nearly hidden by the powder coat and the lexan just makes it flashy

    On a dyno, with a $#@!ty fan, you wont see the gain, so I havn't gone to the dyno yet, a real improvement will be on the road

    Let me know what you all think

    enjoy the pictures:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    22
    Rep Points
    17.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Looks kick ass. Cant wait to hear your review on it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,128
    Rep Points
    9,106.2
    Mentioned
    644 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    92


    Yes Reputation No
    It's a neat looking intake, but the restriction point is the factory snorkel. Certainly not going to be ideal for power vs. the tried and true $139 dual cone intake. Glad they removed the gold wrap, though.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    70
    Rep Points
    9.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's a neat looking intake, but the restriction point is the factory snorkel. Certainly not going to be ideal for power vs. the tried and true $139 dual cone intake. Glad they removed the gold wrap, though.
    I repsectfully beg to differ. We have been through this several times before with many other members assuming that the restriction is the factory snorkel or the air inlet tube diameters. The fact of the matter is that we have proven otherwise showing how this intake can support up to 540whp with our TT upgrade package. The one plus we have over others is the fact that we have more of an ability to test for the functionality of this intake since it was tested on turbos that flow more volume than stock. That being said, while tuning on the dyno we did indeed test the limits of the factory snorkel tube as well as the factory air intake tubes. Two things we did, the first being the factory snorkel limitation. Seeing as how our intake is a closed design, it's level of efficiency relies heavily on the factory intake snorkel as well as our scoops. So we decided to dyno the car back to back with and without the lexan top. This would prove if there were any performance limitations due to a cavitation effect. Of course the cavitation level would be much worse on the dyno with limited airflow volume to the intake. The results were what we expected, no difference in power with the top on or off. The next test was the limitation of the factory air inlet pipes. While on the dyno we removed the inlet tubes to both the front and rear turbos to see of there was in fact a restriction in airflow volume. The results were no difference in power at all as well. However, we did infact test the factory airbox with our tt upgraded car and noticed quite a bit of fluctuation in power and torque through out the whole powerband proving it's limitations.

    The dual cone intake is a cost affective method to the limitations of the factory airbox. However, our premise behind developing a product is not soley based on perfomance alone. At the end of the day we prefer to design products that accentuates the driving experience of a BMW both in function and form.

    By the way, the gold wrap was for a one of our vendors road race cars. It's the best material available for heat resistance which is why it was chosen to be used on that application. Not the prettiest thing in the world to look at though!
    Last edited by Abid@ASR; 02-01-2010 at 02:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Abid@ASR Click here to enlarge
    I repsectfully beg to differ. We have been through this several times before with many other members assuming that the restriction is the factory snorkel or the air inlet tube diameters. The fact of the matter is that we have proven otherwise showing how this intake can support up to 540whp with our TT upgrade package. The one plus we have over others is the fact that we have more of an ability to test for the functionality of this intake since it was tested on turbos that flow more volume than stock. That being said, while tuning on the dyno we did indeed test the limits of the factory snorkel tube as well as the factory air intake tubes. Two things we did, the first being the factory snorkel limitation. Seeing as how our intake is a closed design, it's level of efficiency relies heavily on the factory intake snorkel as well as our scoops. So we decided to dyno the car back to back with and without the lexan top. This would prove if there were any performance limitations due to a cavitation effect. Of course the cavitation level would be much worse on the dyno with limited airflow volume to the intake. The results were what we expected, no difference in power with the top on or off. The next test was the limitation of the factory air inlet pipes. While on the dyno we removed the inlet tubes to both the front and rear turbos to see of there was in fact a restriction in airflow volume. The results were no difference in power at all as well. However, we did infact test the factory airbox with our tt upgraded car and noticed quite a bit of fluctuation in power and torque through out the whole powerband proving it's limitations.

    The dual cone intake is a cost affective method to the limitations of the factory airbox. However, our premise behind developing a product is not soley based on perfomance alone. At the end of the day we prefer to design products that accentuates the driving experience of a BMW both in function and form.

    By the way, the gold wrap was for a one of our vendors road race cars. It's the best material available for heat resistance which is why it was chosen to be used on that application. Not the prettiest thing in the world to look at though!
    If this is all accurate, then well done.

    However, with your testing procedures, do you have the results or dyno runs to post at the stages of development as support? Not saying I don't take your word for it, but would like to see the results of the various stages of testing which would be helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    70
    Rep Points
    9.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If this is all accurate, then well done.

    However, with your testing procedures, do you have the results or dyno runs to post at the stages of development as support? Not saying I don't take your word for it, but would like to see the results of the various stages of testing which would be helpful.
    We have the dyno sheets for the airbox testing from our TT upgraded vehicle and have posted them on E90post through Shiv. As a matter of fact, Got PSI was at the dyno watching us do the testing while we were tuning. I'm sure he would have no problem chiming in on the subject from a third party perspective. We would be more than happy to post results backing up our data. It just wouldn't make much sense nor would it be very wise for us to design and develop a product for production with false data. It would only be a matter of time before customers start posting real world results. It would also be very hard for any company to refute if everyone is posting something completely different than what a product is supposed to be capable of performing.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Abid@ASR Click here to enlarge
    We have the dyno sheets for the airbox testing from our TT upgraded vehicle and have posted them on E90post through Shiv. As a matter of fact, Got PSI was at the dyno watching us do the testing while we were tuning. I'm sure he would have no problem chiming in on the subject from a third party perspective. We would be more than happy to post results backing up our data. It just wouldn't make much sense nor would it be very wise for us to design and develop a product for production with false data. It would only be a matter of time before customers start posting real world results. It would also be very hard for any company to refute if everyone is posting something completely different than what a product is supposed to be capable of performing.
    I'm not accusing you of false data, just asking for the data that you are willing to release or show at this point.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,128
    Rep Points
    9,106.2
    Mentioned
    644 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    92


    Yes Reputation No
    On the dyno tuning I know I would insist the lid be removed, hard to imagine Shiv feeling any differently about it. Are you sure the lid was in place when you made 530rw?

    In our testing we found the snorkel to be the largest problem with the factory airbox. Drilling holes in the side of the airbox under the filter delivered similar performance to the dual intake, which led to a few revised lid designs with add on filters which also delivered DCI type performance. After doing some VBOX testing 40-120 using a cold air tube from the lid to a stand alone filter, similar to DINAN, we didn't see enough improvement to justify the cost, and kept with the open element intake. This is at only ~420whp. With 100whp more its hard to imagine that snorkel is keeping up with the flow requirements.

    So while I don't agree with the analysis, if nothing else you're offering something no one else is offering and can appreciate the value in that.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    On the dyno tuning I know I would insist the lid be removed, hard to imagine Shiv feeling any differently about it. Are you sure the lid was in place when you made 530rw?

    In our testing we found the snorkel to be the largest problem with the factory airbox. Drilling holes in the side of the airbox under the filter delivered similar performance to the dual intake, which led to a few revised lid designs with add on filters which also delivered DCI type performance. After doing some VBOX testing 40-120 using a cold air tube from the lid to a stand alone filter, similar to DINAN, we didn't see enough improvement to justify the cost, and kept with the open element intake. This is at only ~420whp. With 100whp more its hard to imagine that snorkel is keeping up with the flow requirements.

    So while I don't agree with the analysis, if nothing else you're offering something no one else is offering and can appreciate the value in that.
    You didn't see enough improvement but was there improvement vs. the open element design?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,128
    Rep Points
    9,106.2
    Mentioned
    644 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    92


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You didn't see enough improvement but was there improvement vs. the open element design?
    With the correct closed air design, e.g. not relying only on the factory snorkel, but the factory snrokel + a 2.5" cold air pickup, we observed maybe a .05 second advantage 40-120 in back to back runs at times. Not much at all. And there were runs it was also slower than the DCI. So we decided to call it not significantly improved @ 420whp level.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    70
    Rep Points
    9.7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    On the dyno tuning I know I would insist the lid be removed, hard to imagine Shiv feeling any differently about it. Are you sure the lid was in place when you made 530rw?

    In our testing we found the snorkel to be the largest problem with the factory airbox. Drilling holes in the side of the airbox under the filter delivered similar performance to the dual intake, which led to a few revised lid designs with add on filters which also delivered DCI type performance. After doing some VBOX testing 40-120 using a cold air tube from the lid to a stand alone filter, similar to DINAN, we didn't see enough improvement to justify the cost, and kept with the open element intake. This is at only ~420whp. With 100whp more its hard to imagine that snorkel is keeping up with the flow requirements.

    So while I don't agree with the analysis, if nothing else you're offering something no one else is offering and can appreciate the value in that.
    We didn't do just one 530+whp run, as a matter of fact we did quite a few at that hp level both with the lid on and off.

    The method of testing you did is looking at the factory intake design 1 dimensionally, which is why the assumption is that the factory snorkel is the culprit in regards to airflow volume restrictions. We did similar testing as you, but took it a step further and looked at the limitations of the factory airbox surface area. What we deduced is that the factory airbox's limitation of surface area outweighed the limitations of the snorkel tube. At that point we designed an airbox with almost 3 times the volumetric surface area of the factory airbox. The factory snorkel tube is a 4" x 3" inlet which mathmatically is enough to support a mass flow rate of 56lb/min or after conversion a volumetric flow rate of 736cfm averaging 600flywheel hp conservatively.

    The purpose behind the design was to create a larger abundance of airflow to support the additional airflow volume required of the larger turbos without running into cavitation issues. The dyno testing was proof postive that even with 538whp , intake lid on or off, we had not experienced any fluctuaction in power or torque curves. Had we seen any fluctuation in those values with the lid on, it would have been a direct result of cavitation from the restriction of the factory snorkel tube. You know as well as I do that the dyno fans don't even come close to flowing the volume of air needed to support real world results. Even with that in mind, we still did not run into a choke point with the factory snorkel tube and our airbox design.

    I don't dispute the results from your testing of the stock airbox and the DCI. What I am disputing though is your claim that the factory snorkel is a choke point, because it just doesn't make sense mathematically.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,079
    Rep Points
    1,142.0
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Wow! Looks sick. OP, any dynos?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    dynos soon to come, im running v4 stage4 at stock user adjs.
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    wow, dyno plzzzz Click here to enlarge

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    610
    Rep Points
    343.0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Wow, that looks solid! Nice job ASR.
    08 E92 M3 - DCT
    Bolt Ons - Best ET 11.88 Best Trap Speed 119.8 MPH
    60-130 MPH (3 shifts) 10.71s
    Gintani Stage 2+ Supercharger 60-130MPH (3 shifts) 7.06s
    11.45 @ 131.6 MPH
    579WHP @9.3psi

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    570
    Rep Points
    432.9
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    5


    Yes Reputation No
    damn that looks so clean I must say that is a great job and if I had a 335i I would get this intake for sure!
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    206
    Rep Points
    91.1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Yes Reputation No
    I really like the closed setup. This will probably flow better than the other dual cone intake setups bc this uses the stock airflow intake pipe. Plus, it probably won't be as loud, which I love stealth setups.
    This is my signature... Click here to enlarge

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,128
    Rep Points
    9,106.2
    Mentioned
    644 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    92


    Yes Reputation No
    Just for the sake of conversation which this forum desperately needs. Click here to enlarge How can it outflow the factory airbox when its feeding from the same restrictive 3x4" opening? The filter itself has never been the problem with the factory airbox. It's the tiny snorkel.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Just for the sake of conversation which this forum desperately needs. Click here to enlarge How can it outflow the factory airbox when its feeding from the same restrictive 3x4" opening? The filter itself has never been the problem with the factory airbox. It's the tiny snorkel.
    Very funny Click here to enlarge There are a few things an N54 forum I can think of could use Click here to enlarge

    You raise an interesting point.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    now i did not design this product, so it may be too quick of a reply for me to make. abid is much more knowledgable on this product than i am so forgive me if i maker a fool of myself Click here to enlarge please call abid if this laymens explanation doesn't suit you.

    the flow might not be there on a dyno, but that's only because theres no real air volume. the scoops are an integral part of the design, the box and snorkel and tube are all packed with air when the car is in motion, when this is ture, the turbos have enough air to scavenge, even at high rpm, and once you're at road speeds past 40? with scoops, the air volume coming in that 3x4" is more than you'd think.
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    now i did not design this product, so it may be too quick of a reply for me to make. abid is much more knowledgable on this product than i am so forgive me if i maker a fool of myself Click here to enlarge please call abid if this laymens explanation doesn't suit you.

    the flow might not be there on a dyno, but that's only because theres no real air volume. the scoops are an integral part of the design, the box and snorkel and tube are all packed with air when the car is in motion, when this is ture, the turbos have enough air to scavenge, even at high rpm, and once you're at road speeds past 40? with scoops, the air volume coming in that 3x4" is more than you'd think.
    You raise a good point about the air flow on the dyno, it will not be real world unless someone has an F1 wind tunnel we don't know about.

    However, a wider inlet is capable of more volume.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Yes Reputation No
    i never brought these pics over from e90, i made this thread while this board was in transition to the new style, which is awesome by the way... here are the asr scoops vs my old rpi scoops.

    im not concerned with the wear and tear, its normal for about 20k miles, just the size difference and quality is what makes me smile Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    119,426
    Rep Points
    32,121.4
    Mentioned
    2107 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    322


    Yes Reputation No
    Big difference in scoop design, thanks for posting those pics.

    I ran the RPI scoops and felt it was the best mod for the money.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,079
    Rep Points
    1,142.0
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Intakes look solid though! I wanted to design that earlier, but no way of machining it, and no $ lol

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,079
    Rep Points
    1,142.0
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    I don't know, I've had scoops w/ a tune, and I didn't really feel anything. I'm sure a butt-dyno w/ some massive fans will prove me otherwise.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •