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  1. #26
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    It would seem that the motor is usually OK to 500ft/lbs at the wheels, and Shiv seems to have proven that you can take that all the way to redline. Somebody here a while back that looked inside an N54 said they thought it looked similar in design/strength to a 4g63. Don't know how educated that opinion was, but in that case the motor should be good to 600ft/lbs or so at the wheels with the right turbo and tuning.

    As far as drivetrain goes, I think it's all about avoiding shock to the drivetrain due to race clutch plus nearly infinite traction, or wheel hop. I doubt a smooth steady application of power is ever going to break it.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @Sticky , performance race solutions, in Sanford just outside of Orlando.
    Ok, good, I was about to start making some phone calls and writing some e-mails wondering what was up.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EDM92 Click here to enlarge
    I hear they know how to tune Evo's though. I wouldn't be surprised if the tuner had no idea what he was doing. I think that group buy they did for N54 pro-tunes was the first experience the tuner had with the platform. I hear he is a GREAT tuner, he probably just doesn't know what the hell to do with an N54.
    Yeah their tuner Mike was really sharp with Evos and knew tuning theory just fine. Just didn't know how to apply his principles to the N54 using Cobb. Unfortunately I was the guy that organized that group buy. There was a guy with rb turbos that was in on it, I'm still curious how that turned out for him.

    Fwiw, I've heard nothing but great things about PSI from peeps up here in Jax. I have no personal experience with them however.

  4. #29
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    I'll let you know when mine explodes. Hoping to get on 100% E85 as soon as possible.
    pt6466 FFTEC 335i
    gtx3076r FFTEC Evo IX

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EDM92 Click here to enlarge
    I've been wondering, what kind of power can the stock axles and drive shaft hold without issues? I was just reading onebadmofo's "for sale" thread, where he said his car is temporarily off the market until he gets new axles and a drive shaft. Got me thinking, can the N54's drivetrain withstand the power from RB turbos, or even Vishnu's single? Also, I'm still skeptical the N54's internals can even withstand the ~700hp from the single. As far as power goes, I'm tempted to just go get an Evo IX or X, considering you can make big numbers with a smaller price tag. Is it true that Shiv has blown some motors already? Wouldn't be surprised if he just kept that information on the down low.

    Discuss! I would say "let's all be civil", but we aren't on E90post, so I don't think that will be necessary. Click here to enlarge
    I have recently seen an FBO Alpina B3S Biturbo (DPs, complete exhaust, oil cooler, tranny cooler, flash tune) that puts out around 460-470hp (crank) and where the engine recently had to be completely taken apart and partly rebuilt. The owner pushes it very hard on a regular basis on various tracks (Nürburgring, Salzburgring, Spa, you name it) and although only had it for 9 months has driven 15.000km of track with it; on normal motorways it is also pushed regularly to 300+ km/h speeds (German motorways).

    Now, this is essentially a brand-new car, low-compression pistons (thanks to Alpina) and not even upgraded turbos, E85 or meth and with a rather conservative tune. A recent oil change showed metal shavings which came from the rod bearings; these were replaced with bespoke rod bearings that were custom developed for this car (but would obviously also fit any other N54).

    While taking the engine out and apart the technician also said that he believes on a long-term basis the crankshaft will also go out if even more torque is pushed with the engine. The rods and pistons were fine and do not seem to need any replacement. The technicians developing the rod bearings are also those that are doing long-term engine stress testing for various players in the automotive industry, and confirmed (what has already been discussed frequently) that BMW did long-term stress testing of the N54 engine with up to 400hp (crank) without problems; it however does not seem to be designed to withstand long-term abuse beyond that.

    In summary, I believe that it will greatly depend on what you use the car for, i.e. if you're constantly pushing it to the max for long periods of time or just doing a few 1/4-mile races here and there. In the first case, even a rather mild power bump will result in engine damage within a short timespan, whereas in the second case even a major power increase will be ok with the engine at least in the medium term.

    In my personal opinion I would think of rebuilding the engine with low-compression pistons, lightweight conrods and upgraded rod bearings at least if the car is intended to be pushed to the max on a regular basis and over 450-500whp. However, I also think that very few people intend to use their car in a similar fashion; also, as there are no unlimited motorways outside of Germany, the long high-speed runs (which are very stressful to the engine) will not really happen to people in other countries. With lots of high-hp upgrades coming to the N54 platform, we will see I think which part will give first.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
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    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    A recent oil change showed metal shavings which came from the rod bearings; these were replaced with bespoke rod bearings that were custom developed for this car (but would obviously also fit any other N54).


    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Do you know how much are they asking for their rod bearings?

    Good post btw. the longevity depends on the usage.

  7. #32
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    AT must be rebuilt sooner or later in case of an aggressively driven, all out tuned N54. Doesn't really matter what kind of turbos you have. A competent tuner can squeeze more than 500 lb ft out of N54, which in a long term is too much for a transmission rated at half of that.

    Similarly, aggressively driven all out MT must have clutch and shafts.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by orange Click here to enlarge
    Here we go again....I'm not saying they (at least the 07) are but do you have any proof none aren't? Click here to enlarge
    do you have proof some are? because noone has shown us forged internals

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    PRS did a great job, made great power 430/499 E50+meth (corrected at 12% from mustang dyno) and I have almost constant contact with Will@Prs as well as Mike@PRS (tuner).

    I have never had an issue talking to, or getting ahold of PRS.
    Im glad your experience was better than mine, but i have to believe that in your case, the reason you are so satisfied is because you dont realize what your are missing. Your peak numbers are good, but could probably be better if he would have played around with VANOS tuning, maybe an extra 10-15whp. Also your boost response could probably be alot better if he would have played around with the WGDC and PID tables. I'm not sure how much you know/understand about tuning theory and how it relates to Cobbs software on the N54, but believe me when i tell you that all Mike did was take a V301 OTS cobb stage 2+ FMIC Aggressive map, set load target to 190 across the board and add some timing. I'm sorry but that is NOT what i was expecting to receive when i payed for a tune.

    After 3-4 emails with no response from Mike@PRS i gave up trying. I received an email from Will@PRS with information in it that confirmed Mike was receiving my emails, so at this point its very apparent that he has no desire to work with me further.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    PRS did a great job, made great power 430/499 E50+meth (corrected at 12% from mustang dyno) and I have almost constant contact with Will@Prs as well as Mike@PRS (tuner).

    I have never had an issue talking to, or getting ahold of PRS.


    PSI dosent have a dyno (from what I have heard) not sure how you can create something without a dyno. I have also heard stories of PSI making a mess of things.
    When it cools down here in FL, you should probably take your car to the dragstrip and see how it performs.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Im glad your experience was better than mine, but i have to believe that in your case, the reason you are so satisfied is because you dont realize what your are missing. Your peak numbers are good, but could probably be better if he would have played around with VANOS tuning, maybe an extra 10-15whp. Also your boost response could probably be alot better if he would have played around with the WGDC and PID tables. I'm not sure how much you know/understand about tuning theory and how it relates to Cobbs software on the N54, but believe me when i tell you that all Mike did was take a V301 OTS cobb stage 2+ FMIC Aggressive map, set load target to 190 across the board and add some timing. I'm sorry but that is NOT what i was expecting to receive when i payed for a tune.

    After 3-4 emails with no response from Mike@PRS i gave up trying. I received an email from Will@PRS with information in it that confirmed Mike was receiving my emails, so at this point its very apparent that he has no desire to work with me further.
    I personally watched Mike change number and I know for a fact he did more then just change load targets. I also dont email him, I text him, When I email him it takes time for him to reply.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    When it cools down here in FL, you should probably take your car to the dragstrip and see how it performs.
    Yeah Im 1 1/2 cars slower then a 11' GT500 from 0-120. So im guessing low-mid 12's

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Yeah Im 1 1/2 cars slower then a 11' GT500 from 0-120. So im guessing low-mid 12's
    I think you should be quicker than that. On the OTS Stage 2+ v301, I was running 12.3-12.4 consistently trapping 117mph on pump 93 octane.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    I think you should be quicker than that. On the OTS Stage 2+ v301, I was running 12.3-12.4 consistently trapping 117mph on pump 93 octane.
    Your results are not consistent with others, it would appear you have a wednesday motor sir. With E50 + Meth on my PRS tune i was trapping 115, granted that was mid summer heat and a 6MT. I expect to trap 120+ in cooler weather, E90soflo should be around the same. Im also done with running at Gainesville, that track is garbage. Im going to try Valdosta motorspeedway in GA.

  14. #39
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    Although no one has actually shown or proven the older models. 2007-2008 had forged internals, I wouldn't put say that I wouldn't believe it as its a way of cost savings for BMW. I mean for savings BMW took out the flash light and the hood insulation. Do you realize if each piece for argument sake cost 20 dollars, multiply that in millions and how much BMW saved on their bottom line. I still believe the olde models did come with forged internals and my theory proves why they would stop production of those parts.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Cn555ic Click here to enlarge
    Although no one has actually shown or proven the older models. 2007-2008 had forged internals, I wouldn't put say that I wouldn't believe it as its a way of cost savings for BMW. I mean for savings BMW took out the flash light and the hood insulation. Do you realize if each piece for argument sake cost 20 dollars, multiply that in millions and how much BMW saved on their bottom line. I still believe the olde models did come with forged internals and my theory proves why they would stop production of those parts.
    E90post down for you too? Click here to enlarge

    I'd really like to know which motors do and don't have forged internals, if any. Either way, they don't really seem to a real set back at around 500hp, so I'm not worried about that as much as I am worried about the axles.
    Daily: 2007 Montego Blue E92 335i - Stock
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    I have recently seen an FBO Alpina B3S Biturbo (DPs, complete exhaust, oil cooler, tranny cooler, flash tune) that puts out around 460-470hp (crank) and where the engine recently had to be completely taken apart and partly rebuilt. The owner pushes it very hard on a regular basis on various tracks (Nürburgring, Salzburgring, Spa, you name it) and although only had it for 9 months has driven 15.000km of track with it; on normal motorways it is also pushed regularly to 300+ km/h speeds (German motorways).

    Now, this is essentially a brand-new car, low-compression pistons (thanks to Alpina) and not even upgraded turbos, E85 or meth and with a rather conservative tune. A recent oil change showed metal shavings which came from the rod bearings; these were replaced with bespoke rod bearings that were custom developed for this car (but would obviously also fit any other N54).

    While taking the engine out and apart the technician also said that he believes on a long-term basis the crankshaft will also go out if even more torque is pushed with the engine. The rods and pistons were fine and do not seem to need any replacement. The technicians developing the rod bearings are also those that are doing long-term engine stress testing for various players in the automotive industry, and confirmed (what has already been discussed frequently) that BMW did long-term stress testing of the N54 engine with up to 400hp (crank) without problems; it however does not seem to be designed to withstand long-term abuse beyond that.

    In summary, I believe that it will greatly depend on what you use the car for, i.e. if you're constantly pushing it to the max for long periods of time or just doing a few 1/4-mile races here and there. In the first case, even a rather mild power bump will result in engine damage within a short timespan, whereas in the second case even a major power increase will be ok with the engine at least in the medium term.

    In my personal opinion I would think of rebuilding the engine with low-compression pistons, lightweight conrods and upgraded rod bearings at least if the car is intended to be pushed to the max on a regular basis and over 450-500whp. However, I also think that very few people intend to use their car in a similar fashion; also, as there are no unlimited motorways outside of Germany, the long high-speed runs (which are very stressful to the engine) will not really happen to people in other countries. With lots of high-hp upgrades coming to the N54 platform, we will see I think which part will give first.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    We also have to consider the open deck design of the cylinder housing. During my engine rebuilt, i will have a "small" in-house developed solution, which backup the cylinders againts the engine wall. At high tourqe applications, the pistons push the cylinders in both directions with a great force as the rods are alternating. That is why Darton Sleeves developed Modular Integrate Deck Cylinders/Sleeves.

    Laszlo

  17. #42
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    Block posting FTW

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Do you know how much are they asking for their rod bearings?

    Good post btw. the longevity depends on the usage.
    I don't have an exact price for them, but I know the bearings themselves are not very expensive, probably around 1000-1500 EUR, maybe even less. I got an indicative quote for a replacement of the rod bearings (i.e. all labour included which is huge as the engine has to come out and be disassembled) for around 3000 EUR.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires
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    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    I think you should be quicker than that. On the OTS Stage 2+ v301, I was running 12.3-12.4 consistently trapping 117mph on pump 93 octane.
    The GT500 said he made 480whp on a dynojet.




  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Your results are not consistent with others, it would appear you have a wednesday motor sir. With E50 + Meth on my PRS tune i was trapping 115, granted that was mid summer heat and a 6MT. I expect to trap 120+ in cooler weather, E90soflo should be around the same. Im also done with running at Gainesville, that track is garbage. Im going to try Valdosta motorspeedway in GA.
    Perhaps that may be the case. I do know 2 other members that have ran similarly if not better than me on that map and 93 octane. When the weather cools down here in FL, I expect to go back and run low to mid 12's again but trap 119-120mph with the e30 map. I'm not expecting a faster ET because I am still limited by my stock RFT's. Click here to enlarge

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