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  1. #51
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    Actually, they only claim to build the Ultimate Driving Machine in this country, in every other country in the world, they have been for many, many years and continue to use the "Joy of Driving" campaign. As far as whoring out the brand, hard for me to tell a for profit company they should make less money. I worry about the FI move, but then again, look at what Nissan did with the GTR, and in every one agree that is a game changer.

    I am more pissed about the ///M3 being made into an ///M4.....WTF is that. RIDICULOUS. How you kill a legend like the ///M3 just for marketing purposes is BEYOND me.

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    Sticky, you're upset that they're putting M badges on cars that have nothing to do with M gmbh...except these cars (and the M Performance parts) are designed by M engineers, the only difference is these M Performance models have ~30% of their parts changed from the standard car (30% applies specifically to the M135i but you can expect all of them to be similar) vs 80% changed on a full M car. I guess my point is if M gmbh themselves are proud to put their name and badge on these cars, that should be good enough for anyone.

    I think these models fill a very interesting place in BMW's lineup and I'll definitely be looking at the M235i and M335i in addition to the actual M2 and M3 when I'm ready to replace my 135i.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Onetime Click here to enlarge
    Correct, it creates more M badges but not more M cars. M cars will always have value.
    And the brand and image is now devalued pulling down M cars as well.

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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e46e92love Click here to enlarge
    As far as whoring out the brand, hard for me to tell a for profit company they should make less money.
    Would they be hurting themselves by keeping "is" just as it was? Worked for the entirety of BMW up to this point.

    The Nissan GTR is a different car.

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  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    Sticky, you're upset that they're putting M badges on cars that have nothing to do with M gmbh...except these cars (and the M Performance parts) are designed by M engineers
    No they aren't. No M motor. The "is" models are not designed by M engineers. They are just standard cars with the standard parts and maybe a suspension or tune upgrade.

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  6. #56
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    I dont like it but all the major car makers are doing it now..Audi alreadu has been talked about, Merc has been doing ot for a while..my girls C350 has AMG wheels and badges..seen a lot of Mercs like that too..even Lexus is doing it now, slapping a F badge of everything(not that F has anywhere near the same history of M, just saying)..like I said I dont like it all..but to me, a M5 still sounds alot better than a M535 or M550, same with the M3 and M335..

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    my girls C350 has AMG wheels and badges
    This is another example that is just stupid. People are essentially buying a badge. It's retarded.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And the brand and image is now devalued pulling down M cars as well.
    I dont think so, atleast I hope not..I think the only people who might get confused are the people who dont really know to much about cars..Badges or not, I think youll definetly be able to tell the difference between a 335 and a M5 or 550 and M5

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    I dont think so, atleast I hope not..
    How can it not be?

    It isn't about confusion as much as saturation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This is another example that is just stupid. People are essentially buying a badge. It's retarded.
    I agree, but the sad truth is, is that the car looks better with the AMG package without having to pay the extra 40k for the AMG motor which she doesnt want..its just business, theyre trying to make more money and it works, but just because her car has AMG wheels and badges, doesnt mean her car looks anything like a C63.I guess thats my point

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    The M line of motors is one thing and the M parts themselves are something entirely different imo.

    Does it matter if someone has an M steering wheel and there is a badge placed on the steering wheel? No. Same with wheels and other parts.

    BUT to badge an entire car M just because it has some of the parts is something I don't agree with. I don't even have an M car, but I see the same problem with AMG's. If I were to get parts from the Black Series I still wouldn't badge my car a C63 Black Series.

    When I see the AMG badge on the wheels of a C300 I think it looks good, but when I see the badge on the back of the car claiming it's AMG I disagree. To the enthusiast who owns one I would think it does make a difference since it basically devalues the vehicle. AMG's are known for having hand built motors. It's a personal experience I've not had with any other car, but it is a connection I have with any other AMG owner. Those who add the badge to a non AMG car don't have that type of connection and I'm not going to say I resent them, but it almost feels like they are taking a little bit of that enjoyment and connection away from me and devaluing it.

    As far as racing goes, if someone in a Honda were to smoke an M or AMG and go bragging about it there are two things that will happen. 1) People will think the person is lying or 2) if the driver has video, people will think AMG's are not worth the price. I see these discussions every time there is a YouTube video of a supposed kill.

    Again, this is just my two cents and I cannot really understand what would really be going through the minds of other M series owners since I have an AMG. I will probably understand when MB decides to start calling other cars AMG's when they don't have an AMG motor.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    How can it not be?

    It isn't about confusion as much as saturation.
    well if we are talking about actual monetary value, I dont think that will change at all...to the industry, a true M car is a performance car made with the highest quality components..I dont think a M55o will be worth the same as a M5 jsut because it has the same badges..I think people will know better

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    I agree, but the sad truth is, is that the car looks better with the AMG package without having to pay the extra 40k for the AMG motor which she doesnt want..its just business, theyre trying to make more money and it works, but just because her car has AMG wheels and badges, doesnt mean her car looks anything like a C63.I guess thats my point
    I agree but it's fine if AMG wants to do this as they always have. Why should M hurt M when they have traditionally protect it and elevated it?

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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    well if we are talking about actual monetary value, I dont think that will change at all...to the industry, a true M car is a performance car made with the highest quality components..I dont think a M55o will be worth the same as a M5 jsut because it has the same badges..I think people will know better
    Of course not but the market still is going to be seeing a ton more M badges everywhere now. It loses it's value and certainly to me its unique appeal. I'm not as enthusiastic about having an M car any longer.

    If the mechanical changes weren't bad enough as is now they are selling the curbside appeal of the badge. I'm over it.

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  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    I agree, but the sad truth is, is that the car looks better with the AMG package without having to pay the extra 40k for the AMG motor which she doesnt want..its just business, they're trying to make more money and it works, but just because her car has AMG wheels and badges, doesnt mean her car looks anything like a C63.I guess thats my point
    1) Where are you located? There are some countries that do badge the AMG vehicle even though it is not true to the definition that we, in the States, have made it. That is because they do not sell the AMG versions there so the C350 Sport AMG might be the package.

    2) As far as I know in the States, the AMG badge is reserved these days for those AMG's which have the hand built engines and other performance upgrades, brakes, wheels, etc..

    The wheels are AMG badged because they're AMG parts per se. I had a C350 before switching over to a C63 and loved the AMG package, but on the rear it said C350 and there was no mention of AMG.

    Sure it's all about marketing, but the 6.3 badges on the side and the AMG badge on the rear should belong to the model series and not the "oh, but I have some AMG parts" series.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course not but the market still is going to be seeing a ton more M badges everywhere now. It loses it's value and certainly to me its unique appeal. I'm not as enthusiastic about having an M car any longer.

    If the mechanical changes weren't bad enough as is now they are selling the curbside appeal of the badge. I'm over it.
    yeah I see your point but I still think the car has unique appeal, like I said before..big difference between a M335 and M3...plus who cares what anyone else thinks..you still know youre driving a bad ass M3, not a M335..and anyone who looks at your car or goes for a ride in it will know the same.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HoozyerdaddyC63 Click here to enlarge
    1) Where are you located? There are some countries that do badge the AMG vehicle even though it is not true to the definition that we, in the States, have made it. That is because they do not sell the AMG versions there so the C350 Sport AMG might be the package.

    2) As far as I know in the States, the AMG badge is reserved these days for those AMG's which have the hand built engines and other performance upgrades, brakes, wheels, etc..

    The wheels are AMG badged because they're AMG parts per se. I had a C350 before switching over to a C63 and loved the AMG package, but on the rear it said C350 and there was no mention of AMG.

    Sure it's all about marketing, but the 6.3 badges on the side and the AMG badge on the rear should belong to the model series and not the "oh, but I have some AMG parts" series.
    Im in Florida, now you have me wondering..I thought her car had the AMG badge on it..and I know Ive seen it on other Mercs but that could be the owner slapping it on, not the dealer...I know her car has the AMG package or whatever its called, definetly has the rims, but now Im wondering about the rear badge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    Im in Florida, now you have me wondering..I thought her car had the AMG badge on it..and I know Ive seen it on other Mercs but that could be the owner slapping it on, not the dealer...I know her car has the AMG package or whatever its called, definetly has the rims, but now Im wondering about the rear badge
    Yes, the AMG package on the C350 was one of the biggest selling points for me. The car looked so much better with the AMG wheels and, last I saw, the new C350 Sport package with the red top stitching aren't even available for the C63.

    Now that I have a C63 there are definitely some differences like the front fender and the dual exhaust that make it stand out, but you can get the parts or a body kit to resemble the C63 or even the C63 Black Series. I see a lot of the C300/350 owners in the forums showing off their new parts and they certainly look good. I can definitely appreciate the admiration of non C63 owners who really do love how the C63 looks, but can't afford (or don't want to pay for) a vehicle in that price range. It is fun to see what they have done with their own cars. There are some really sweet rides out there and I've seen quite a few C300's with sweet wheels and other body mods that I would love to do to my C63.

    What it really comes down to is that the owner enjoys their vehicle purchase and can do what they want with their car. Just don't expect everyone to be excited to see a non AMG car badged AMG.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HoozyerdaddyC63 Click here to enlarge
    ...

    What it really comes down to is that the owner enjoys their vehicle purchase and can do what they want with their car. Just don't expect everyone to be excited to see a non AMG car badged AMG.
    I couldnt agree more

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cisi Click here to enlarge
    i think thats exactly the point, now for cheap you get your M car, and it will be just as much M as the other M (the one someone should recognize as the "real" M), M is M. (there is no RM like at audi the RS)
    The reason for this is that M wont mean any kind of performance M-division involvement any more, but just the the idea of owning an M....

    Finally its just like in "The incredibles" when when elastigirl tells flash "we are all special" an he replies "well thats just as much worth, as if no one would be".
    And M is becoming exactly that, normal, for everyone with no meaning performance wise. But a big seller.
    And you can be sure that the one who buys the pseudo M will be very sure about the fact, that he owns a real M car just as much as an M3 is. "hey, but my suspension comes from M (yeah right!), and all this m badges, and ist lover then the normal non M, and M performance is written on my motor". He want care the fact that his M never was at bmw M division even only for 1 minute, and his motor just got a low software tune (if it even got one!). And you will be the stupid who sends 20000 $ more to bmw for an M model just like the other one, as (as you pointed it), very few people will get the difference any more.
    A difference that before everyone(!), even the non enthusiasts, could get just looking at the name of the car.
    anyone else craving some M&M's all of a sudden? Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HoozyerdaddyC63 Click here to enlarge
    1) Where are you located? There are some countries that do badge the AMG vehicle even though it is not true to the definition that we, in the States, have made it. That is because they do not sell the AMG versions there so the C350 Sport AMG might be the package.

    2) As far as I know in the States, the AMG badge is reserved these days for those AMG's which have the hand built engines and other performance upgrades, brakes, wheels, etc..

    The wheels are AMG badged because they're AMG parts per se. I had a C350 before switching over to a C63 and loved the AMG package, but on the rear it said C350 and there was no mention of AMG.

    Sure it's all about marketing, but the 6.3 badges on the side and the AMG badge on the rear should belong to the model series and not the "oh, but I have some AMG parts" series.
    afaik the amg badge is for models that have the amg hand built engine... yes there are amg packages or sport packages for non-amg cars that can be added... but they don't market the car as a C300 AMG or S550 AMG... it would merely have the amg package or maybe even a performance package that gives bigger brakes or something... but if it doesn't have the engine, it's not an amg...

    and yes the owner can buy a badge and slap it on the car... just as easy as someone can slap an m badge on a 328... and when buying a car and you say you want that badge on the car or you won't buy it, then the dealer will put it on for you... even if you drive a c300... or the salesman will buy the badge himself and put it on the car...

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    The video they released to promote the M Performance parts a while back said those parts are engineered by M gmbh and the head of M himself was talking about how those new parts that make up 30% of the car are all directly from M.

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    This reminds me of the hue and cry Porsche loyalists made when Porsche announced it would build a SUV. Many claimed the Porsche brand would be tainted and diluted and their beloved sports car only company was selling its soul to increase market share so they could appeal to a wider demographic. How dare Porsche make anything but two door sports cars! It's blasphemous I tell you. Next thing you know, Porsche will probably make a sedan and the world will end. Now here we are years later and Porsche is going stronger than ever with a full line of SUV's and sedans as well as the many iterations of the incomparable 911. I think the BMW marketing department knows a thing or two. Like it or not, get ready to see more M badges. Brand dilution...nah.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    The video they released to promote the M Performance parts a while back said those parts are engineered by M gmbh and the head of M himself was talking about how those new parts that make up 30% of the car are all directly from M.
    Come on, use your head, they are renaming the "is" line the M Performance Line. What M engineering goes into the 335is currently? 0. It's just marketing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Onetime Click here to enlarge
    This reminds me of the hue and cry Porsche loyalists made when Porsche announced it would build a SUV. Many claimed the Porsche brand would be tainted and diluted and their beloved sports car only company was selling its soul to increase market share so they could appeal to a wider demographic. How dare Porsche make anything but two door sports cars! It's blasphemous I tell you. Next thing you know, Porsche will probably make a sedan and the world will end. Now here we are years later and Porsche is going stronger than ever with a full line of SUV's and sedans as well as the many iterations of the incomparable 911. I think the BMW marketing department knows a thing or two. Like it or not, get ready to see more M badges. Brand dilution...nah.
    It's not the same thing.

    Porsche built an SUV (that I bought) to expand their portfolio. BMW is taking something they already have an applying it to models they already build in a manner that misrepresents what they are and sells people buying it an image that does not apply to the car they are buying. See the difference?

    Yes, M dilution is officially here.

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    AS far as the MB cars are concerned, there are MANY dealers that slap the AMG badge on a NON AMG car IF the owner buys the AMG sport package. Its sad, but ture.

    I agree the cars LOOK better with it, as does my S600 with the AMG package. But you won't be catching me slapping an AMG badge on the trunk any time soon, LOL

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