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  1. #1
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    E85 RB Turbo Dyno Results

    Hey guys,

    I had a chance to get on the dyno for some RB Turbo / E85 tuning. An extension of our R85/RB tuning thread.

    The car is our 2008 steptronic 135i w/ JB4, BMS Flash (lol) , RB Turbos, BT/CX racing intercooler, and our downpipes, dci, and occ. Temps were in the low 90s.

    We've been running a 50%+ E85 mix working on RB turbo only tuning (no meth), and have come to find we're operating at the limit of our low pressure fuel pump. It's not yet clear whether ours is just giving out or if this is indicative of some sort of wider fuel pump limitation. But work continues on that front. For this testing I installed a "boost a pump" on the low pressure pump and ran it at 100% which is around 17v.

    Even with the BAP in place the low pressure was unable to keep up at higher RPM. Shown as "oil temp" in the logs below. It's targeting 72psi but dropping to around 45psi at peak power. When it goes south of 50 more often than not it takes the high fuel pressure down with it. With the BAP maxed out my options on the dyno were limited so I simply leaned it out and bumped up advance to allow for more output. Fortunately E85 enjoys running leaner.

    The results are in the dyno below. Overall I'm very happy with the power potential. On a colder day 500rw E85 only should not be a problem. And as I've said in the other thread the drivability on these turbos is as good or better than stock. Instant boost and acceleration anywhere you want it. Just the way I like it.

    After the E85 tuning I decided to kick on the meth kit for a couple runs just to see how it might effect the fuel pressure situation. No tuning changes were made other than restoring the normal AFR targets. Same boost and advance curve. It's around a 70% meth mix using a CM10 nozzle.

    Not surprisingly with the meth flowing power dropped. Which is a fairly good indication that the E85 only tuning is about where we want it. You'll notice in the meth log the supplemental fuel provided by the meth kit was just enough to keep high pressure fairly normal to redline.

    In other news, during a couple of the earlier runs the trans started slipping again. It's been doing this off and on since its nitrous days years ago. Might be time for an upgrade soon. Click here to enlarge

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    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 08-23-2012 at 05:55 PM.
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    Your meth results are also with 50% e85? If yes, how can the power be lower with meth cooling the IATs?

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    The water in my meth mix reduces power, as does the richer air/fuel ratio. Since advance is already well set for the E85 mix the net result is less power. Although if I were racing to 150mph I'd feel better about the motor with the meth flowing. Click here to enlarge

    Once the fuel situation is resolved I'll raise boost and advance while on meth. I expect it should be able to do 515-520rw on a cold day.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Sweet numbers, baseline?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Same dyno I've always used, see previous dyno posts for baselines. With the "BMS flash" loaded running its higher than stock load targets it made around 350rw @ around 13psi. Not particularly relevant. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    I have the same LPFP limitation, which I can reproduce on stock turbos running north of 70% E85. Like I've stated in another thread and you're doing a great job demonstrating here, whether or not it's a "lazy" LPFP due to age or wear, it seems to be reality that the LPFP is the first mechanical limit for fuel volume.

    Without knowing the whole story behind this, would you be willing to install a brand new LPFP and do another round of testing to see if this is a problem of age/wear?

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    Terry this is with G5 board?I know you said BMS Flash but which board?

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    Boo only a 50 whp delta over your stock turbo run! Click here to enlarge

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    I happen have a G5 board on but with the BMS flash loaded none of the G5 features are really being used. No CPS offset in here, JB4 fueling is disabled, SLD is handled via the flash, barely much PWM being added, etc. So these results are achievable with a normal G4 board as well.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Same dyno I've always used, see previous dyno posts for baselines. With the "BMS flash" loaded running its higher than stock load targets it made around 350rw @ around 13psi. Not particularly relevant. Click here to enlarge
    I guess it's true these things need to be boosted hard to make big numbers.

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    I never tried to max the OEM turbos out on E85 alone, but likely would have been in the 430-440rw range, as its done on race gas, so a 50rw delta with the RBs sounds reasonable. But remember that isn't 50rw @ 7200rpm only sort of thing. It's an across the board delta.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I never tried to max the OEM turbos out on E85 alone, but likely would have been in the 430-440rw range, as its done on race gas, so a 50rw delta with the RBs sounds reasonable. But remember that isn't 50rw @ 7200rpm only sort of thing. It's an across the board delta.
    With that logic, I'll make 455 whp fully tapped out. Click here to enlarge

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    With that logic, I'll make 455 whp fully tapped out. Click here to enlarge
    Until you get it on the dyno and start tuning it you just never know. Click here to enlarge I don't see any reason you won't make 470rw+ though.
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    I know a bit off topic but we can use sld feature through the flash instead of adding the wiring on the g5?Still a week out on my turbo install but curious as im going to switch to my g5 over the weekend.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jzeee037 Click here to enlarge
    I know a bit off topic but we can use sld feature through the flash instead of adding the wiring on the g5?Still a week out on my turbo install but curious as im going to switch to my g5 over the weekend.
    Yes our backend flash already has an SLD on it. So no need to bother with the extra wires (or $15) Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dfv2 Click here to enlarge
    I have the same LPFP limitation, which I can reproduce on stock turbos running north of 70% E85. Like I've stated in another thread and you're doing a great job demonstrating here, whether or not it's a "lazy" LPFP due to age or wear, it seems to be reality that the LPFP is the first mechanical limit for fuel volume.

    Without knowing the whole story behind this, would you be willing to install a brand new LPFP and do another round of testing to see if this is a problem of age/wear?
    Now that the tools are in place for data collection we should get a lot more customer low pressure data soon to evaluate. Once we have that we can start drawing more concrete conclusions.
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    Oh well already have them so its all good.Nice results.So if no adjustments have been made through the jb4 what is a reasonable power number you would expect to see with this setup?I know it will vary from car to car but just curious what potentially can be made with this setup with and without meth.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The water in my meth mix reduces power, as does the richer air/fuel ratio. Since advance is already well set for the E85 mix the net result is less power. Although if I were racing to 150mph I'd feel better about the motor with the meth flowing. Click here to enlarge

    Once the fuel situation is resolved I'll raise boost and advance while on meth. I expect it should be able to do 515-520rw on a cold day.
    Nice.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Until you get it on the dyno and start tuning it you just never know. Click here to enlarge I don't see any reason you won't make 470rw+ though.
    Depends on the baseline I suppose.

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    Nevermind you already answered that above.

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    T are you loading the blackened flash with the AP?
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Yes
    Burger Motorsports
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    Nice results. I miss playing around with my N54. I should start driving it more often.

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    Did a 50% mix of E85 with Cobb on a S2+ FMIC car. Results were 450whp/510wtq.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Did a 50% mix of E85 with Cobb on a S2+ FMIC car. Results were 450whp/510wtq.
    Stock turbos? Dynapack?

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