Close

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 87
  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    2,949
    Rep Points
    2,882.2
    Mentioned
    78 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    29


    Yes Reputation No
    Did you pull the whole intake manifold or just remove the Airbox, Tb, and electrical junction box? I'll probably be tackling this over the weekend.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    120
    Rep Points
    228.9
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3



    Yes Reputation No
    Below is what the low pressure fuel sensor looks like.

    Click here to enlarge

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    120
    Rep Points
    228.9
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3



    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Did you pull the whole intake manifold or just remove the Airbox, Tb, and electrical junction box? I'll probably be tackling this over the weekend.
    After I struggled trying to just pry the bracket up with the intake mani on I realized it wasn't happening and there was no way I was getting room under the electrical box to unscrew the bracket.

    cn555ic recommeded loosening the intake mani a lil, but at that point it just made sense to pull the intake mani and get access to the sensor. All in all it is a pretty easy and straight forward job... Getting to the point where I was originally stuck (prying/unscrewing the electrical box) took me about 25 min. i run without the cowl so it was simply the hvac filter housing, intake filters, diverter valves, charge pipe (and tmap), and throttle body.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts
    2,949
    Rep Points
    2,882.2
    Mentioned
    78 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    29


    Yes Reputation No
    Sounds easy enough, maybe i'll give it a shot tomorrow. Thanks for your help.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    120
    Rep Points
    228.9
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3



    Yes Reputation No
    Anytime.. let us know if you have any struggles.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    This is dejavu for me.

    Exactly the same pattern.

    Two weeks ago I got the 29F3 code for Low pressure sensor......pegged at 6.4 bar.

    Car ran fine though.

    Then I started to notice my bank 1 and bank 2 fuel trims were diverging about 20%, so I replaced the LP sensor.

    Surprisingly, the bank 2 fuel trims were hoverng near maximum after I replaced the sensor - so the trims were actually worse and the spread between them widened to 40%..Click here to enlarge

    I had 3 new injectors lying around, so I replaced all three bank 2 injectors with new ones.

    Tzu met up with me and coded them for me.

    After I reset adaptations, the fuel trims are back to being 20% apart.....but only above 9 psi of boost. Under 9 psi they follow each other within 5%.

    So replacing the injectors helped solve half my problem......but I still don't know why bank 1 and bank 2 fuel trims still read 20% apart.

    Before I threw the sensor code two weeks ago, the trims were almost identical.

    As of today, bank 2 trims will read +10% while bank 1 trims will read -10%.

    Within normal parameters, but still a fairly significant spread.

    Anyone have any ideas on why that would be? Click here to enlarge

    This happens with meth on and meth off BTW....so it doesn't look like classinc uneven meth distribution.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    The other 3 in bank 1 might be on their way out as well.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,058
    Rep Points
    1,149.6
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    Also, I beleive those injector adaptation values I was showing u are long term values. We probably should have reset them.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
    The other 3 in bank 1 might be on their way out as well.
    That's definitely a possibility here I would think.

    BMW only replaced two of my injectors under the HPFP recall campaign, so four are original to the car with about 50K miles on the clock.

    I was thinking that the other possibility might be the fuel pressure regulator?

    From what I understand of the fuel system, if the HPFP is getting less than 72 psi from the low pressure side, then the DME can keep the flow pressure valve completely open to compensate.

    Not sure if this would lead to fuel trim deviation though.

    Remember that the deviation only happens on high boost = when there would be more demand for fuel and the regulator would have to be working harder......that is why I am suspecting a marginal fuel pressure regulator might be at play here.

    Any thoughts on this?

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Also, I beleive those injector adaptation values I was showing u are long term values. We probably should have reset them.

    Hey Tzu!

    That's probably the case based on a couple of datalogs I pulled on my way home......that is when bank 2 maxed out.

    So I reset all adaptations via Procede and did a Procede reset as well.

    Shortly after this fuel trims settled to where they are now: Bank 1= -13 Bank 2 = +11


    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DCAFS; 10-22-2012 at 08:27 AM.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    They used to look like this and settle in around +10 or so for both banks:

    So based on comparing the two graphs.....bank 1 is now reading rich in the first graph above. That could be the bank 1 injectors starting to go as well?

    Click here to enlarge

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Valley Stream NY
    Posts
    3,350
    Rep Points
    2,779.7
    Mentioned
    85 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    28


    Yes Reputation No
    I dont think a bad regulator would cause that, otherwise it would affect all 6 injectors...

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
    I dont think a bad regulator would cause that, otherwise it would affect all 6 injectors...
    Yes that makes sense to me too......

    But I'm thinking that perhaps the fuel rail would not be evenly pressurized if the regulator was not able to keep the low pressure fuel line pressurized at the 5 bar (72 psi) target (as boost pressures get above 9 to 10 psi in my case that is when the divergence starts to happen).

    But then I would imagine that the High Pressure Sensor would throw a code if the rail pressure was out of spec?

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,684
    Rep Points
    3,343.8
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    Try Cobb, see what happens with your trims Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,058
    Rep Points
    1,149.6
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Yes Reputation No
    That is strange. I'm out of ideas at this point. I don't suspect LPFP. Bank 1 reading rich only indicates that the bank is getting more fuel than the setpoint, and pulling back as a result. The opposite is true for bank 2.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,684
    Rep Points
    3,343.8
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    On my car with the procede I always had issues with trims deviating from each other by at least 10-15%. As I was running meth it was blamed on meth distribution. Then I stopped running it, ran only pump and reset adaptations, and STFTs still deviated heavily. Once I moved to Cobb that issue has never come back, meth or not, no hardware changes.
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Try Cobb, see what happens with your trims Click here to enlarge
    I know....I know.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Yeah....but up to a couple of weeks ago (before my car threw the Low fuel sensor code) my fuel trims on both banks followed closely even when spraying meth for over six months steady now.

    Here is how they looked up until the sensor crapped out....and this is spraying meth!

    Click here to enlarge

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,684
    Rep Points
    3,343.8
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    Yeah....but up to a couple of weeks ago (before my car threw the Low fuel sensor code) my fuel trims on both banks followed closely even when spraying meth for over six months steady now.

    Here is how they looked up until the sensor crapped out....and this is spraying meth!

    Click here to enlarge
    As I mentioned before, it is not impossible to have trims follow each other with the procede or any piggyback. Its that with time the two will start to deviate from each other and you'll be wondering about it again. With COBB on its own in there they've never deviated from each other no matter what was done on about 50 cars we've custom tuned so far with all sorts of setups out there, stock turbos/rbs/pump/pwm meth/pps meth/ethanol/race gas. The only thing we've seen in terms of piggybacked electronics on the DME affecting fueling is sometimes the DP fix that people wire in throws off AFR in the two banks making one bank run 0.5 leaner than set target and the other bank richer than target. Once it was pulled out from the DME's harness AFR went back to target.

    I guess there are always exceptions to every rule so anything is possible but I wouldn't think in your case it'd be the regulator or the LPFP as fuel from there is common across the engine (single fuel rail). It can't be the HPFP either. It could be injectors but you've replaced them. It can be LTFTs that were learned over time due to a bad injector which are throwing off the STFTs and if you haven't reset learned adaptations then IMO that'd be the thing to do first before anything else.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 10-22-2012 at 12:10 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    As I mentioned before, it is not impossible to have trims follow each other with the procede or any piggyback. Its that with time the two will start to deviate from each other and you'll be wondering about it again. With COBB on its own in there they've never deviated from each other no matter what was done on about 50 cars we've custom tuned so far with all sorts of setups out there, stock turbos/rbs/pump/pwm meth/pps meth/ethanol/race gas. The only thing we've seen in terms of piggybacked electronics on the DME affecting fueling is sometimes the DP fix that people wire in throws off AFR in the two banks making one bank run 0.5 leaner than set target and the other bank richer than target. Once it was pulled out from the DME's harness AFR went back to target.

    I guess there are always exceptions to every rule so anything is possible but I wouldn't think in your case it'd be the regulator or the LPFP as fuel from there is common across the engine (single fuel rail). It can't be the HPFP either. It could be injectors but you've replaced them. It can be LTFTs that were learned over time due to a bad injector which are throwing off the STFTs and if you haven't reset learned adaptations then IMO that'd be the thing to do first before anything else.
    Yeah LTFT's for sure.

    That is exactly what happened when Tzu recoded my 3 new bank 2 injectors......we did not reset my adaptations and my fuel trims for bank 2 rose another 10% until I reset all the adaptations the next day.



    But be aware Dzenno.....I did not replace all 6 injectors - only the bank 2 ones because the fuel trims for bank 1 look pretty normal to me.

    Surprsingly, Here is what the bank 2 trims looked like right after I installed the new LP sensor (but before replacing any injectors):


    Click here to enlarge



    So you can clearly see why I replaced the bank 2 injectors only.

    I tend to think that I should replace the remaining three injectors as it's not hard to do and at 70,000K it's probably time anyways.

    As far as switching to Cobb goes - you know I would do that if it wasn't for the investment and integration into the Vishnu PWM kit.

    From all my inquiries, it looks like I would have to purchase a complete HSF4 kit in order to integrate with Cobb.

    Cost wise that is not so attractive to me.......$700-800 for Cobb, $300 for a Pro-tune as the OTS maps need to be tweaked out, $1K for the HSF4 kit.

    That's around $2K to switch tunes.

    But I'm open to the idea.

    Gonna try and troubleshoot this trim problem a bit more but if I don't get anywhere then I will probably consider switching to Cobb at that time.
    Last edited by DCAFS; 10-22-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,684
    Rep Points
    3,343.8
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    I'm not saying "switch to Cobb". I'm not sure why you're thinking that. The other day on the phone when you called I said that getting a 30 day trial from Cobb and trying it on your car is the free/easy way of checking your hardware with a tune that doesn't involve additional electronics in the mix and a different approach to fuel control. If the issue goes away with OTS maps (say Stage2+aggressive given your hardware) then its not your hardware and you can stop wasting time/money there. I am well aware of the costs to switch tunes, not sure why you brought that up, probably miscommunication.
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I'm not saying "switch to Cobb". I'm not sure why you're thinking that. The other day on the phone when you called I said that getting a 30 day trial from Cobb and trying it on your car is the free/easy way of checking your hardware with a tune that doesn't involve additional electronics in the mix and a different approach to fuel control. If the issue goes away with OTS maps (say Stage2+aggressive given your hardware) then its not your hardware and you can stop wasting time/money there. I am well aware of the costs to switch tunes, not sure why you brought that up, probably miscommunication.
    Yes...you are right.

    From that phone conversation you only suggested using Cobb as a process of elimination....you did not imply anything other than that.....sorry for the miscommunication here.

    I was speaking more in terms of converting to an equivalent meth setup on Cobb as I now have on Procede.

    I don't think I can simply integrate the Vishnu PWM kit by simply buying the HSF4 controller.....I would have to get the entire kit. Click here to enlarge

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,684
    Rep Points
    3,343.8
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DCAFS Click here to enlarge
    Yes...you are right.

    From that phone conversation you only suggested using Cobb as a process of elimination....you did not imply anything other than that.....sorry for the miscommunication here.

    I was speaking more in terms of converting to an equivalent meth setup on Cobb as I now have on Procede.

    I don't think I can simply integrate the Vishnu PWM kit by simply buying the HSF4 controller.....I would have to get the entire kit. Click here to enlarge
    I've asked Aquamist about the conversion before and was told its easier to sell one kit and get the other instead of piecing things together. I'm sure it can be done though but its not cheap. Regardless, this isn't what you're after anyways. You're troubleshooting an issue and I was trying to save you some money in the process by trying a different approach that can cost you nothing and is easy enough to try with pump gas as your issue is also present without meth with the procede.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    254
    Rep Points
    328.3
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I've asked Aquamist about the conversion before and was told its easier to sell one kit and get the other instead of piecing things together. I'm sure it can be done though but its not cheap. Regardless, this isn't what you're after anyways. You're troubleshooting an issue and I was trying to save you some money in the process by trying a different approach that can cost you nothing and is easy enough to try with pump gas as your issue is also present without meth with the procede.
    I know and I think that is good advice too.

    Just want to spend a bit more time on the fueling side of things before I try this alternative, since all of this behaviour started when my Low Pressure sensor flaked out......and replacing the bank 2 injectors did improve the situation.

    There were signs of blowby and corrosion upstream from the o-ring seal on one of the original injectors I pulled out.......so there are some signs pointing me to the problem being hardware related to some degree here.

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DCAFS; 10-22-2012 at 03:59 PM.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    111
    Rep Points
    200.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    3


    Yes Reputation No
    @DCAFS - How old are your pre-cat O2s? Might want to consider changing them if they're anywhere near 50k miles. You can use two of the Bosch 17098, cheaper than the N54-specific 17102 for bank 2. You just need to make sure you label them properly and coil up the excess bank 2 wiring neatly using the clips on the HP rail. Saves about $60-90.
    James Muskopf
    RRT Racing
    2007 E92 335i/6MT Procede Rev3 w/PWM meth, otherwise stock
    E28 M5, R171 SLK320

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •