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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Myaddiction Click here to enlarge
    AEM guys have been doing the same thing with used GM flex fuel sensors. It's a simple 0-5v output. It'd be great if Terry integrated this into the JB4. You can find those sensors for 100 bucks.
    Yes it's really no problem. If you don't have meth just use the meth input as that is already tied to a boost additive system, etc, that we can scale nicely for you.
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  2. #52
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    1) The JB can't advance timing where you will see much more significant power gains than simply putting some E85 in the tank and running a more aggressive map.

    2) Yeah, stopping at 2 pumps is complicated. You do realize that I'm PRO Ethanol, and when I want to use it I'd have to stop at 2 pumps, so what? So how does that make me stupid? Too stupid to be comfortable removing an ECU? Please. I know you don't know me, so I will assume you also don't know what I do for a living or have invested my life doing.

    What if the closest E85 is a 30 minute trip out of my way? What if I'm on a road trip and don't want/need E85 to cruise down the highway? What if there are significant gains to be had from timing advance that the stock ECU + JB4 can't offer on very high E-concentration? What happens on a Cobb ATR map previously tuned for high ethanol is used when no E85 stations are around? Have to pull out the AP and switch back to a different map? No problem, sure, but still not exactly convenient.

    These are the questions to ask.
    Wow?! Did I ever call you (or anyone) stupid?

    My point was only a customer who think mixing fuel is to much of a hazzle might not be a customer who feel comfortable to remove their ecu.

    Maybe there is more power hidden at wot with stock turbos with a higher than 50% E85 content, I dont know. But I have been running 19psi with E85 and meth and do feel that I prob wouldnt want to advance timing more than the stock curve...
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  3. #53
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    They flash the car at $100. Not bad.

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    I always fill in the wanted % of e85 and gas. I don't think the ethanol content varies much so I don't think I need a sensor.

  5. #55
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    I think Shiv mentioned that the flash was included in the price of the flex fuel kit. In any case, the point that I got out of this thread is that the flex fuel kit will have a place in the n54 market for those that want it.

  6. #56
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    Other than bogus Shiv propaganda which always ruins more for himself than it does good, bottom line is that this is a cool feature, could be useful if 100% ethanol was possible on this car and you were tuned to the bleeding edge with timing where you might risk an engine due to overadvance. However we know very well the DME is more than capable of proactively backing out timing based on feedback from the piezo injector tips and no ond in their right mind would tune a car to the bleeding edge without knowing the octane in their tank. You can talk all you want but those going all out simply wont do that and they WILL be datalogging. By far most ppl are looking for reliability still with adxed power.

    Its functional and cool but at the same time way too expensive and just overhyped. Remove Shiv's brainwashing from it and lower the price and personally I'd say its a nice to have feature why not.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 08-11-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    1) The JB can't advance timing where you will see much more significant power gains than simply putting some E85 in the tank and running a more aggressive map.

    2) Yeah, stopping at 2 pumps is complicated. You do realize that I'm PRO Ethanol, and when I want to use it I'd have to stop at 2 pumps, so what? So how does that make me stupid? Too stupid to be comfortable removing an ECU? Please. I know you don't know me, so I will assume you also don't know what I do for a living or have invested my life doing.

    What if the closest E85 is a 30 minute trip out of my way? What if I'm on a road trip and don't want/need E85 to cruise down the highway? What if there are significant gains to be had from timing advance that the stock ECU + JB4 can't offer on very high E-concentration? What happens on a Cobb ATR map previously tuned for high ethanol is used when no E85 stations are around? Have to pull out the AP and switch back to a different map? No problem, sure, but still not exactly convenient.

    These are the questions to ask.
    procede only advances timing on the dyno. havent seen anything to state otherwise. its marketing
    people $#@! about doing all the simplest things to their cars. you think they are going to want to pull the dme and send it out? shiv markets to 2 kinds of people, retards, and morons. usually a combination of both, and more often than not, under 22 years old, with this as their only car. meaning they cant live with voluntary downtime. I wish him the best of luck getting this to someone other than the fanboys so we can see how gret it is, more accuratly, how great it is not.

    you asked a few questions, but implied no other solution can cope, so tell me, how can the new procede cope with them. that is the question to ask

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    procede only advances timing on the dyno. havent seen anything to state otherwise. its marketing
    people $#@! about doing all the simplest things to their cars. you think they are going to want to pull the dme and send it out? shiv markets to 2 kinds of people, retards, and morons. usually a combination of both, and more often than not, under 22 years old, with this as their only car. meaning they cant live with voluntary downtime. I wish him the best of luck getting this to someone other than the fanboys so we can see how gret it is, more accuratly, how great it is not.

    you asked a few questions, but implied no other solution can cope, so tell me, how can the new procede cope with them. that is the question to ask
    hahaha LM always coming in with the heat! I approve. Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    After reading a few of Shiv's comments on E90, im beginning to think no one let him know that Cobb added a fuel scalar, since he continues to claim that Cobb cannot support E85... wtf is he talking about? Plus the fact that he touts that PROcedeflash (lol) is more capable than Cobb... $#@! please.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CaliforniaBred Click here to enlarge
    hahaha LM always coming in with the heat! I approve. Click here to enlarge
    LM doesn't really have a filter that I've noticed Click here to enlarge and he's more than happy to keep the attacking/questioning attitude up. the rep he's received speaks for itself, people here like it.
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  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    We get it. You think it's overpriced. Put it to rest. Others will see the value and have the opposite opinion.


    Only the most rudimentary benefits. You don't exploit full benefits of ethanol by simply adding some and watching your logs look slightly better with fewer / no timing corrections.

    Like I said for now the fifth time in this thread? If you can add 3+6, you can run the ethanol without paying $800 bucks for the privilege! No constant logging required Click here to enlarge I'll even make it simpler for you, since Mr. hardcore racer can't be bothered, make it 1+1 and tune for that! Go to regular pump, add 3 gallons, go to E85 pump add 3 gallons! Not rocket science now, is it? You don't need to log constantly for that mixture, once-over is good enough. PS: No laptop needed for the AP... click the round black button and have at it! Click here to enlarge

    Anyone who wants to run ethanol will eventually have to pull up to more than one pump. How does this help your arguement? Will they also want to check logs and update maps if their E-concentration changes?

    Nope, it's called switching maps. I guess it's similar to trying to calculate the amount of boost you're running in a race because you don't know what E85 ratio is in your tank. DAMN I LOST 2 SECONDS ON MY LAP! MY E85 CONTENT WASN'T HIGH ENOUGH!

    That would make 3 questions (i.e. how many Rev 3s?)
    1) My guess is you're oversimplifying and are do not know what exactly is changed in the ECU flash update. No more fuel pressure codes. No more lean codes from higher concentrations of ethanol and bolt-ons or upgraded turbos. And still retain the ability to run zero to very high ethanol while allowing the piggy to alter timing, fuel and boost on the fly based on the E-content sensor.

    The point is even dimsport has access to fuel pressure tables. So why let the piggyback do something that the ECU can do? Redundant for marketing purposes. PS: Thank you for mentioning the major deficiency we've been talking about the Procede for years now and that Shiv refused to acknowledge until late last year when he came out with rev2.5/3. Perhaps in the year 2014 this will all make sense to you.

    2) Mixing methanol takes a gallon jug and a quart measuring jar. Mixing E85 and gasoline results in surprisingly large variances in actual ethanol concentration. Shiv posted he used a 50/50 mix, and the Siemens sensor reported 60% instead of the assumed 48%. Was the E85 lower than 85% or the pump gas higher than 10%? Who knows?

    Again, fuel trims. The same fuel trims that saved your ass from inaccurate methanol mixtures, aged methanol mixtures and pump gas variances.

    Wow, you argue like an angry teenager trying to prove something to his parents sometimes.

    Actually if you noticed, I clearly stated that the product has a market for those who can't be bothered to measure ethanol ratios. Looks like you're one of them; kudos to you.
    .

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    Isn't this akin to the arguements from the flash crowd against the JB4 - e.g. just let the ECU take care of timing while the piggy increases boost and makes the ECU think it's running lean and pushes more fuel.

    Tune an ATR map to 50/50 mix and if you don't have your laptop and have to fill up on a trip, just let the ECU handle the trims and hope you don't have too much timing for pump gas?
    What the hell are you talking about? Map flashing is done through the AP. Connect, flash map while pumping gas, done.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    It's brilliant. There is a select group of people willing to throw money at him to buy whatever overpriced solution he is selling. He's be a fool not to keep that gravy train rolling. Click here to enlarge

    In so far as the $800 flex fuel sensor system, while the data is useful, I don't see it as being any more useful than ignition advance and fuel trim trends when autotuning E85. I think for $150 I could justify a sensor, which BTW their Rev2 hardware can read just as easily as their Rev3 hardware, but given the high price and risk associated with messing around with fuel lines, I think the negatives outweigh the positives. For a basic E85 autolearning system I think we've proven the JB4 is quite capable without the extra cost and install headaches of a flex fuel sensor. But if anyone ever wants to connect one there is an extra analog input on the G4 board which can accommodate it. And many extra analog inputs on the G5 board.

    With regard to the flash tune, it does makes fuel management with heavier E85 mixes a lot easier. Although the way he's programmed it the car will be incapable of running a "stock map" with the procede removed, since his base flash is 13psi with too rich air/fuel ratios, and the idea of shipping DME's around to load his flash is very outdated and impractical. I'm biased but I much prefer our solution. We've developed the back end flash map using the Cobb AP platform, which allows customers to load the map from the convince of their driveway. Oh, and unload it too, should the need arise. And by investing in the Cobb platform they are not limited to maps we might provide for them. Not to mention have resale value and flexibility.

    I also noticed a lot of marketing time spent on CPS advance. I guess that is directed in our direction? I don't really get it though. First I've found 14 degrees to be more than adequate to produce the 420rw+ figures he is touting. We've made 440rw without meth @ 14 degrees. But say you want 16 degrees. Why not just flash a 16 degree map to the DME and then use CPS to offset from that when you need less? Not really a big deal? And our hardware supports CPS advance anyway. We just don't have it implemented in production firmware.
    ding ding ding we have a smart one on our hands!

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Other than bogus Shiv propaganda which always ruins more for himself than it does good, bottom line is that this is a cool feature, could be useful if 100% ethanol was possible on this car and you were tuned to the bleeding edge with timing where you might risk an engine due to overadvance. However we know very well the DME is more than capable of proactively backing out timing based on feedback from the piezo injector tips and no ond in their right mind would tune a car to the bleeding edge without knowing the octane in their tank. You can talk all you want but those going all out simply wont do that and they WILL be datalogging. By far most ppl are looking for reliability still with adxed power.

    Its functional and cool but at the same time way too expensive and just overhyped. Remove Shiv's brainwashing from it and lower the price and personally I'd say its a nice to have feature why not.
    Would Shiv sell the hardware for $100 less if we already have an AP? I doubt it. It costs him nothing to flash Click here to enlarge

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Would Shiv sell the hardware for $100 less if we already have an AP? I doubt it. It costs him nothing to flash Click here to enlarge
    The way he is doing it is a big pain in the ass. He has to read out the DME file, hand make changes in each table using an editor, and then reupload to the DME. It's just obsolete technology. At least an hour of labor each I bet and then they need to hope it boots up, hope they don't mix it up or damage it in shipping, etc. He's delusional if he thinks that is a viable solution for any reasonable volume of customers. Although, if only 10 customers buy the kit then it's probably not a big deal. I don't know what their customer base is these days but I got my first procede vs. JB4 inquiry in a long time a couple days ago. I get several Cobb vs. JB4 inquiries daily. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The way he is doing it is a big pain in the ass. He has to read out the DME file, hand make changes in each table using an editor, and then reupload to the DME. It's just obsolete technology. At least an hour of labor each I bet and then they need to hope it boots up, hope they don't mix it up or damage it in shipping, etc. He's delusional if he thinks that is a viable solution for any reasonable volume of customers. Although, if only 10 customers buy the kit then it's probably not a big deal. I don't know what their customer base is these days but I got my first procede vs. JB4 inquiry in a long time a couple days ago. I get several Cobb vs. JB4 inquiries daily. Click here to enlarge
    It's very similar to the progressive methanol logic, except it's fully scaled 0-5V as opposed to it being scaled to an injection mode. I'm done arguing the points, if someone has $800 bucks to burn and have to deal with shipping ECUs to Vishnu, have at it. I am all but certain you could incorporate this into the JB4 with an ATP base map with CPS if the hardware is sourced elsewhere. APs hold their value very well, so I consider it more a deposit than an investment. Click here to enlarge

    IMHO, the scale would need to be different for stock turbos and upgraded turbos though. Even Shiv admits that exceeding 50-60% E85 won't do much for stock turbos. I still don't get why he tapers boost so heavily up top though. The result is painfully obvious in his dyno traces.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    IMHO, the scale would need to be different for stock turbos and upgraded turbos though. Even Shiv admits that exceeding 50-60% E85 won't do much for stock turbos. I still don't get why he tapers boost so heavily up top though. The result is painfully obvious in his dyno traces.
    Not sure if its related (didn't look at dynos or logs posted) but I know they continue to have big shift boost spikes on automatic cars when boost is held at higher RPM. So the tapering is likely to help keep those in check.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  18. #68
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    I love when Terry just 'owns' everything on multiple forums in one post.. Haha
    ///M5 LCI
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Not sure if its related (didn't look at dynos or logs posted) but I know they continue to have big shift boost spikes on automatic cars when boost is held at higher RPM. So the tapering is likely to help keep those in check.
    Appears to be the same mapping for both manuals and autos though. Could be wrong!

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    The only way I see this being worth money is if the fuel scalar in the DME changed based on a lookup table from the input from the ethanol sensor. That would allow you to get full performance on any mix without having to reflash or change maps on anything. If that is what Shiv's kit does, then awesome I will wait for someone to make it cheaper and buy it. If that isn't what is happening, then its just a patch to me. If I have to run a patch I'd rather run it with a cobb and JB4 than with procede anything.

    Is it possible with a DME flash to link the fuel scalar table to a 0-5V ethanol sensor output?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    procede only advances timing on the dyno. havent seen anything to state otherwise.
    That's a point for Vishnu to counter, out of my purview.

    its marketing people $#@! about doing all the simplest things to their cars. you think they are going to want to pull the dme and send it out?
    People even have shops do oil changes for them, too. Oh Em Gee, what a stupid dumbass - can't even change their own oil. Maybe they have better things to do with their time and have enough money to pay someone else to do it for them. Most of my customers are financially quite sound and have the means to pay someone else to do the brain and physical work. You have to understand this paradigm, since most of you are arguing from the point that you, yourselves, are knowledgable and capable of doing it on your own. That's fine. Just because someone else doesn't want to/know how to doesn't make them an idiot. Maybe they make more in a few hours than you do all week, and it's a waste of their time to dick with it? I have customers like that, too.

    There are lots of tunes/kits out there for BMWs which require the end-user to remove and send out the DME for reflash. The technology to send just the data file and upload a reflash is out there, but not everyone offers it, yet. I work with Epic Motorsport on lots of customer's racecars, and he uses a USB-OBD2 converter and software to read and upload new maps. I can't see why Vishnu wouldn't offer the same service in the future, but so what? This Flex-fuel option is brand new, not even officially released, yet. Every tune product out there for our cars has been updated and refined many times over since initial release, and I would suspect that this would be a smart improvement for Vishnu.

    shiv markets to 2 kinds of people, retards, and morons. usually a combination of both, and more often than not, under 22 years old, with this as their only car. meaning they cant live with voluntary downtime. I wish him the best of luck getting this to someone other than the fanboys so we can see how gret it is, more accuratly, how great it is not.
    Again, you're pigeon-holed into your way of thinking - anyone who thinks differently is obviously immature and stupid. Really effective debate tactic, here.
    you asked a few questions, but implied no other solution can cope, so tell me, how can the new procede cope with them. that is the question to ask
    There are of course ways to get similar benefits of high / varying ethanol concentrations via Cobb alone or stacking JB/Cobb, which seems to be the only "acceptable" two methods here on Bimmerboost. Terry is 100% correct in that you can simply flash more advance via ATR and use JB4 G5 to use CPS offsetting should your tune be too aggressive if your ethanol mix is insufficient. I don't know which one works "better", since I have not seen any public info on extensive high-ethanol testing other than what Shiv has posted, so far.
    James Muskopf
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    In so far as the $800 flex fuel sensor system, while the data is useful, I don't see it as being any more useful than ignition advance and fuel trim trends when autotuning E85.
    People think differently, and it's refreshing that you, as a direct competitor with no love for Shiv, do temper your comments instead of blowing off like a pressure cooker.
    I think for $150 I could justify a sensor, which BTW their Rev2 hardware can read just as easily as their Rev3 hardware...
    Cheaper sensors are cheaper for a reason, too. I'd opt for the sturdier metal housing, myself. You can also count on the Siemens sensor being a quality product.
    but given the high price and risk associated with messing around with fuel lines, I think the negatives outweigh the positives.
    Haven't seen the supplied hardware for the FF sensor and plumbing, but this is no more dangerous than changing a fuel filter on any earlier BMW: Pop the quick-connects, install new component.

    With regard to the flash tune, it does makes fuel management with heavier E85 mixes a lot easier. Although the way he's programmed it the car will be incapable of running a "stock map" with the procede removed, since his base flash is 13psi with too rich air/fuel ratios, and the idea of shipping DME's around to load his flash is very outdated and impractical. I'm biased but I much prefer our solution. We've developed the back end flash map using the Cobb AP platform, which allows customers to load the map from the convince of their driveway. Oh, and unload it too, should the need arise. And by investing in the Cobb platform they are not limited to maps we might provide for them. Not to mention have resale value and flexibility.
    According to Shiv:
    The DME will be perfectly usable with the Procede and flexfuel hardware removed. The DME mapping isn't particularly aggressive. Making the tune aggressive is mainly the job of the Procede in response to the flexfuel signal. The changes to the DME maps are mainly to smoothen things out and to remove some internal limits.
    Which means, yes, the mapping is fundamentally different but still capable of running stock. It is, however, a PITA if you were to have to return it to stock. This would be possible by any shop with an Autologic or the dealer to update the ECU back to the latest BMW software release. Or you'd remove all the add-ons and send the ECU back again to get restored. That case does make it a PITA.

    Odd I don't see any complaints on having to buy 2 tunes for your solution. Not that I disagree with your solution, it's just interesting that I don't see the typical whining from those people who post "Where can I find the cheapest XYZ?" I hate those threads. Makes me think like LostMarine - 22yo kid, only car, can't even afford the payments and insurance, and has to resort to the cheapest mods they can find. Buy a Toyota, I say.

    I also noticed a lot of marketing time spent on CPS advance. I guess that is directed in our direction? I don't really get it though. First I've found 14 degrees to be more than adequate to produce the 420rw+ figures he is touting. We've made 440rw without meth @ 14 degrees. But say you want 16 degrees. Why not just flash a 16 degree map to the DME and then use CPS to offset from that when you need less? Not really a big deal? And our hardware supports CPS advance anyway. We just don't have it implemented in production firmware.
    You have a different take on the CPS tuning than he does, but if you were to debate it constructively on a forum, we'd all be better for it.
    James Muskopf
    RRT Racing
    2007 E92 335i/6MT Procede Rev3 w/PWM meth, otherwise stock
    E28 M5, R171 SLK320

  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    .
    Nice job on the reply, makes it really hard to follow and impossible to respond inline.

    Like I have said many times now, mixing IS NOT the issue - it's availablility of ethanol at any given time AND the ability to tune even more aggressively than your magical 3+6. I don't have an ethanol station close by, but if I wanted to fill up with any amount I chose, I could, any time, anywhere. Do you see the value in the FF system? No, clearly not, since you're comfortable with 3+6 and no further investigation. Fine. Higher concentrations have benefits of more power, more boost, more advance, leaner AFRs. Your cookie-cutter 3+6 doesn't maximize the benefits of ethanol. If I see you post 3+6 again, I'm going to scream. You just don't get it. Any concentration, any time, anywhere.

    Since you cannot possibly think like someone other than yourself, this debate has become futile. Not everyone thinks like you, and you'll have to learn that. Some people don't want to have to switch maps, whether it's 90 seconds during a fillup or not. Some like chocolate, some vanilla. Some people make their own ice cream, some poeple don't want to bother with it and just buy it ready to eat. I'm sure you'll comment that those people who don't want to switch maps or make their own custom ATR maps for whatever amount of ethanol they want are complete morons, idiots, Shiv's lapdogs, whatever.
    James Muskopf
    RRT Racing
    2007 E92 335i/6MT Procede Rev3 w/PWM meth, otherwise stock
    E28 M5, R171 SLK320

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
    If I see you post 3+6 again, I'm going to scream. You just don't get it. Any concentration, any time, anywhere.
    James, this is getting pretty tiring to be honest. Its a good feature, it'll work out for some and obviously hit the spot in your case, have fun with it and enjoy it. Why does everyone have to jump on the bandwagon when people don't see much value here given you simply can't run pure E85 where such a feature might actually be very useful?

    You can't run any concentration any time. Fill up with 100% and let's see you rip it. Don't datalog, you don't need to, the system will take care of everything for you (if you really believe that...my advice, datalog!).
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    James, this is getting pretty tiring to be honest. Its a good feature, it'll work out for some and obviously hit the spot in your case, have fun with it and enjoy it. Why does everyone have to jump on the bandwagon here when people don't see much value here?

    You can't run any concentration any time. Fill up with 100% and let's see you rip it. Don't datalog, you don't need to, the system will take care of everything for you.
    You're right, I'm getting a little to defensive/obsessive. I'd love to try it, and I'm sure I'll have some teething problems - car has 60k miles on it now, LFPF? Anyway, I just get a little too irritated that a few of the most vocal here are so intolerant of a different viewpoint. You and others have acknowledged it's at least a cool idea. We'll wait now for public release and testing. I'm going to have to find that only E85 Shell station in my area that's about 15 miles from me through heavy traffic in the suburbs.

    I believe BrianMN has tested 100% E85, but full results have not been posted, yet.
    James Muskopf
    RRT Racing
    2007 E92 335i/6MT Procede Rev3 w/PWM meth, otherwise stock
    E28 M5, R171 SLK320

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