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Thread: S54 Head & Cam Package Build + Dyno Results

              
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    S54 Head & Cam Package Build + Dyno Results

    Hey guys, brand new to this forum, and thought I'd open up w/this post. This site was recommended to me by a buddy over on M3Forum (where I spend about 99% of my forum lurking time), and he said that this site was a little more technically minded...so I thought that this would be an appropriate first thread. Click here to enlarge I hope that this is the right section to post this in...mods feel free to move it if necessary???

    Anyway, I'm not going to bother repeating everything about the build here, as everything is pretty much covered in the link below. For those of you that lead double lives over on M3Forum, I apologize if this a repost for you. I basically just wanted to explore/develop a head/cam package that would make good reliable power as an alternative for those of us who want to remain NA. There have only been a handfull of builds (that I'm aware of) somewhat similar to this, but the ones that I was most familiar with were based around stroker kits costing $10k +. I wanted to develop a package that was relatively affordable and didn't involve any crazy 'trick' parts...I think that we succeded!

    Enough talking, I hope that you enjoy reading about my build, as much as I enjoyed the actual process! See you guys around...Click here to enlarge

    EDIT: Ooops, looks like I can't post links yet being a noob. Can someone please post it for me? Thanx!

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    Paging Sticky!!
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    Where can I see the build?
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    i wanna read the build! awaiting link

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    Dont link the build. Try and move it over! Copy paste will be your new best friend! haha Click here to enlarge
    Welcome BTW sounds badass!

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    Ok, I was finally able to copy & paste the info. from my first thread. Entire link is below for anyone interested in reading the entire thread over from M3Forum:

    http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=398790

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    Couple pics of the tear down:

    Parts everywhere!
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    More parts everwhere!
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    Uh-oh, looks like someone's missing a cylinder head!
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    URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/m3pic7.jpg/]Click here to enlarge[/URL]

    One more of the finished head ready to go back on!
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    EDIT: Reducer pics below...I'm planning to dyno both w/and w/o the reducer.

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    EDIT: UPDATE Just added a couple of header pics w/the Swaintech White Lightening coating. Flange to port alignment looks great! Also removed the 02 defoulers from the collectors (last shot). Car is in the shop now and the teardown has officially begun, should be up & running within 2 wks!

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    Couple of pics of the airbox:

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    UPDATE 05/31: Couple shots of the head bolted down. ITB's are being ported now!
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    Close-up of the ARP head stud fasteners
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    Couple of mocked up gratuitous airbox pics
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    My catch can set up
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    Update 06/04: Schrick cams, VANOS, and headers installed:
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    Fresh air duct set up down to the CSL bumper opening
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    UPDATE 6/28: Airbox installed, just a couple of more odds and ends to finish it off before we start it up!

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    UPDATE 7/20: Getting her all set up on the dyno for some initial pulls. (Don't worry, the hood was shut for all pulls!) Click here to enlarge
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    This was around the 4th pull after some very preliminary tuning!
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    This was after a brief cool down period w/no other changes!
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    A comparison between my baseline full bolt-on car to now! Holy crap, almost a 60HP gain up top! Notice some flat spots in the graphs due to timing being pulled due to overly sensitive knock settings. Still have plenty of work left to do! Oops, just noticed that this was an earlier pull, the best pull is even more dramatic!
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    UPDATE: After a little more tuning today...still pulling at almost 8700rpm's!
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    UPDATE: Couple pics of the completed product!:

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    Last edited by stosh1; 08-06-2012 at 08:15 AM.

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    Welcome to Bimmerboost!!

    Your crazy build was brought up throughout some random threads thanks to me and @MisterEm haha

    I think you'll enjoy it here. Discussions seem to be more educational and technical. Not many threads on what tire size to get for maximum stretch and hellaflush fitment...

    You'll be a great contribution here with your knowledge and experience. Click here to enlarge
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    Bad ass!

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    Awesome build. Fill us in on the colour of the head?
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    I have seen it to many times...., if we dont have fans in the dyno facility that can simulate a maxed out car on the road at 4th gear WHY close the hood? I have seen many other threads where some claim hood "should" be closed during dynoing..i agree if u can simulate the airflow pushing through radiator/venting hood/supplying air filter with air...why make it harder for the car to produce power? Bmw didnt develope theire car for standing still performance Click here to enlarge (stick your head out through the window at 130mph and see if u think ur local dyno facility´s fan moves the same amount of air)

    Sorry for OT...i just see this darn "hood closed" shizzle on to many places.

    Rgs

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Welcome to Bimmerboost!!

    Your crazy build was brought up throughout some random threads thanks to me and @MisterEm haha

    I think you'll enjoy it here. Discussions seem to be more educational and technical. Not many threads on what tire size to get for maximum stretch and hellaflush fitment...

    You'll be a great contribution here with your knowledge and experience. Click here to enlarge
    Thanx Alex! Yea, I've already noticed the lack of 'which spacer makes my stance look best' threads over, and it's always good to get perspective from other folks. As far as contributing my knowledge and experience...we'll have to wait and see on that I guess.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bad ass!
    Thank you sir!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Awesome build. Fill us in on the colour of the head?
    It's gold.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
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    I have seen it to many times...., if we dont have fans in the dyno facility that can simulate a maxed out car on the road at 4th gear WHY close the hood? I have seen many other threads where some claim hood "should" be closed during dynoing..i agree if u can simulate the airflow pushing through radiator/venting hood/supplying air filter with air...why make it harder for the car to produce power? Bmw didnt develope theire car for standing still performance Click here to enlarge (stick your head out through the window at 130mph and see if u think ur local dyno facility´s fan moves the same amount of air)

    Sorry for OT...i just see this darn "hood closed" shizzle on to many places.

    Rgs
    Yep, I'm aware that this is very debatable topic and I've had many of them, in the end there are always going to be two sides split on this subject. I will say that, yes, there was a very large, powerful fan (not shown) blowing on the front of the car. Does it simulate 130mph air??? Of course not, but how often are you traveling at 130mph??? We happen to think that dyno'ing with the hood closed better simulates the real world environment of the avg. car driving around town. Yes, it get's hot under the hood when you're sitting in traffic, and sometimes impromptu speed events happen under those same conditions.


    Sure, we could have posted up some better numbers w/the hood open, but again...we feel that it's a better representation of what's actually going on under the hood the majority of the time. Maybe if you're driving a track car that sees constant 80-90mph + speeds and have a well sorted intake set up that's not prone to heat soak...then yeah, dyno w/the hood open. When I monitor my IAT's on the street w/the hood closed (obviously), I see much higher temps vs dyno'ing w/the hood open, so we feel that dyno'ing w/the hood closed gives us more accurate data in re. to tuning, and what's actually going on temp wise the majority of the time when you're actually driving your car around town.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stosh1 Click here to enlarge
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    Yep, I'm aware that this is very debatable topic and I've had many of them, in the end there are always going to be two sides split on this subject. I will say that, yes, there was a very large, powerful fan (not shown) blowing on the front of the car. Does it simulate 130mph air??? Of course not, but how often are you traveling at 130mph??? We happen to think that dyno'ing with the hood closed better simulates the real world environment of the avg. car driving around town. Yes, it get's hot under the hood when you're sitting in traffic, and sometimes impromptu speed events happen under those same conditions.


    Sure, we could have posted up some better numbers w/the hood open, but again...we feel that it's a better representation of what's actually going on under the hood the majority of the time. Maybe if you're driving a track car that sees constant 80-90mph + speeds and have a well sorted intake set up that's not prone to heat soak...then yeah, dyno w/the hood open. When I monitor my IAT's on the street w/the hood closed (obviously), I see much higher temps vs dyno'ing w/the hood open, so we feel that dyno'ing w/the hood closed gives us more accurate data in re. to tuning, and what's actually going on temp wise the majority of the time when you're actually driving your car around town.Click here to enlarge
    BMW doesn't care about the hood...or anything else on the body when they are doing drivetrain development. The engine is mounted on a dynamic dyno made by AVL which simulates a LOT of actual road conditions.

    Personally, I don't think the hood being open is as important as what the engine's operating conditions are. It's the temps inside the engine that carry weight....
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stosh1 Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yep, I'm aware that this is very debatable topic and I've had many of them, in the end there are always going to be two sides split on this subject. I will say that, yes, there was a very large, powerful fan (not shown) blowing on the front of the car. Does it simulate 130mph air??? Of course not, but how often are you traveling at 130mph??? We happen to think that dyno'ing with the hood closed better simulates the real world environment of the avg. car driving around town. Yes, it get's hot under the hood when you're sitting in traffic, and sometimes impromptu speed events happen under those same conditions.


    Sure, we could have posted up some better numbers w/the hood open, but again...we feel that it's a better representation of what's actually going on under the hood the majority of the time. Maybe if you're driving a track car that sees constant 80-90mph + speeds and have a well sorted intake set up that's not prone to heat soak...then yeah, dyno w/the hood open. When I monitor my IAT's on the street w/the hood closed (obviously), I see much higher temps vs dyno'ing w/the hood open, so we feel that dyno'ing w/the hood closed gives us more accurate data in re. to tuning, and what's actually going on temp wise the majority of the time when you're actually driving your car around town.Click here to enlarge
    But when driving around town ur are not on the same gear as when u r dynoing, correct? 4th or 5th gear at 8000+rpm? no u cant be doing that in town.

    Why do i say 130mph? guess what speed ur in at the dyno on 4-5th gear at 8000rpm, its not city speed right?

    We were logging IAT yesterday on our PX600 S/C kit..when standing in a traffic light we had 140+F at the airfilter under the hood(sits direct on the supercharger) once we started to accelerate the IAT skydived to 100F and then kept going down to approx 80 degree F before it started slowly to rise a little then we let of throttle ended in around 95 degree F at 120mph. Outside temp was 69,5 degree F.

    Im just saying if ur driving around with hood closed i assume u get the airflow as well from mother nature?

    We are looking to buy a Dyno and we have 1 big demand, a huge fan with variable speed control!

    Take ur time and read what Steve Dinan has to say, i am 100% on his theorys and IRL testing experience.

    http://www.dinancars.com/university/


    Cheers!

    Btw its just from my point of view, what others do and show off is theire problem..we always develope software and tune in road conditons.

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    U know anything about BMW´s ECU´s and how they operate? , if oil cooler is to hot = retard, if radiator is to hot = retard, if EGT is to hot = retard, IAT to hot = retard + thousands of other parameters that are direct related with outside conditions.

    WHY? not enough air cooling the engine.

    // J

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    BMW doesn't care about the hood...or anything else on the body when they are doing drivetrain development. The engine is mounted on a dynamic dyno made by AVL which simulates a LOT of actual road conditions.

    Personally, I don't think the hood being open is as important as what the engine's operating conditions are. It's the temps inside the engine that carry weight....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
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    But when driving around town ur are not on the same gear as when u r dynoing, correct? 4th or 5th gear at 8000+rpm? no u cant be doing that in town.

    Why do i say 130mph? guess what speed ur in at the dyno on 4-5th gear at 8000rpm, its not city speed right?

    We were logging IAT yesterday on our PX600 S/C kit..when standing in a traffic light we had 140+F at the airfilter under the hood(sits direct on the supercharger) once we started to accelerate the IAT skydived to 100F and then kept going down to approx 80 degree F before it started slowly to rise a little then we let of throttle ended in around 95 degree F at 120mph. Outside temp was 69,5 degree F.

    Im just saying if ur driving around with hood closed i assume u get the airflow as well from mother nature?

    We are looking to buy a Dyno and we have 1 big demand, a huge fan with variable speed control!

    Take ur time and read what Steve Dinan has to say, i am 100% on his theorys and IRL testing experience.

    http://www.dinancars.com/university/


    Cheers!

    Btw its just from my point of view, what others do and show off is theire problem..we always develope software and tune in road conditons.
    No problems brutha, like I said, I've entered into this debate many times, and the outcome is always the same when two educated/experienced people just have a difference of opinion. No, my point about the speed was that you spend more time at lower speeds than at 130mph, which is more representational of actual driving conditions/speeds.

    I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that when we look at IAT's both on the street, and on the dyno, our numbers are closer to the street data with the hood closed vs. having the hood open sitting on the dyno. At the end of the day, as long as you're tuning consistently either way, it's the real gains/losses that can't anyway.

    Yeah, I've read Dinan's stuff, and also had the opportunity to speak to him first hand. He also told me that there's no way a $700 set of headers will make as much power as his $2500 headers...well, we've proven that just isn't the case either. His might look prettier, but others make the same power.Click here to enlarge

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    Hardware can be replicated, just buy the hardware and weld it togheter if u know how 2..cheap!Click here to enlarge

    Even if u accelerate from 40mph-80mph the wind flush the car really fast, i see no reason to dyno anywhere with hood closed if u cannot replicate higher airflow, and for BMW factory dynoing they have "weather facility´s" to test and develope the engines.

    Next time someone dyno like that, drive on 2-3th gear with hood closed (Street/City)then and wait until IAT is 140+F, full throttle and do it 2 times in a row, tell me how much horsepower the car did! Dont forget to adjust the ramp up time in the dyno to simulate how many sec it takes to reach rev limit...im guessing not sooo much! Click here to enlarge

    Anywere i will not go deeper, feel free to have your own free opinion, im talking by personal knowledge and how JAWS works.

    Peace!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by stosh1 Click here to enlarge
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    No problems brutha, like I said, I've entered into this debate many times, and the outcome is always the same when two educated/experienced people just have a difference of opinion. No, my point about the speed was that you spend more time at lower speeds than at 130mph, which is more representational of actual driving conditions/speeds.

    I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that when we look at IAT's both on the street, and on the dyno, our numbers are closer to the street data with the hood closed vs. having the hood open sitting on the dyno. At the end of the day, as long as you're tuning consistently either way, it's the real gains/losses that can't anyway.

    Yeah, I've read Dinan's stuff, and also had the opportunity to speak to him first hand. He also told me that there's no way a $700 set of headers will make as much power as his $2500 headers...well, we've proven that just isn't the case either. His might look prettier, but others make the same power.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Hardware can be replicated, just buy the hardware and weld it togheter if u know how 2..cheap!Click here to enlarge

    Even if u accelerate from 40mph-80mph the wind flush the car really fast, i see no reason to dyno anywhere with hood closed if u cannot replicate higher airflow, and for BMW factory dynoing they have "weather facility´s" to test and develope the engines.

    Next time someone dyno like that, drive on 2-3th gear with hood closed (Street/City)then and wait until IAT is 140+F, full throttle and do it 2 times in a row, tell me how much horsepower the car did! Dont forget to adjust the ramp up time in the dyno to simulate how many sec it takes to reach rev limit...im guessing not sooo much! Click here to enlarge

    Anywere i will not go deeper, feel free to have your own free opinion, im talking by personal knowledge and how JAWS works.

    Peace!
    Like I said, it's all good my man, you have your opnion(s) based on your experiences and I have mine...who's testing methods/data are more valid...does it really matter at the end of the day if both wind up at the same end point...different means to the same end. I'm just here to share my build, maybe contribute a little bit, and maybe learn a little bit along the way.Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JAWS Motorsport Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    U know anything about BMW´s ECU´s and how they operate? , if oil cooler is to hot = retard, if radiator is to hot = retard, if EGT is to hot = retard, IAT to hot = retard + thousands of other parameters that are direct related with outside conditions.

    WHY? not enough air cooling the engine.

    // J
    One could say I know a "little bit" about how it works. How do you think I know BMW uses AVL?

    If the oil temp, water temp, and IAT were the same as seen while driving on the road, why would it matter if the hood was open or closed on the dyno. Admittedly, you will probably have an easier time achieving these conditions with the hood open....

    Sorry for the OT stosh1.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
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    One could say I know a "little bit" about how it works. How do you think I know BMW uses AVL?

    If the oil temp, water temp, and IAT were the same as seen while driving on the road, why would it matter if the hood was open or closed on the dyno. Admittedly, you will probably have an easier time achieving these conditions with the hood open....

    Sorry for the OT stosh1.
    IF u have a fan that can move the same amount of air, fine keep hood closed...but i havent seen many of those fans, EVOMS has a pretty nice dyno though..or the fan setup is nice.

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    wow awesome. NA power FTW!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    One could say I know a "little bit" about how it works. How do you think I know BMW uses AVL?

    If the oil temp, water temp, and IAT were the same as seen while driving on the road, why would it matter if the hood was open or closed on the dyno. Admittedly, you will probably have an easier time achieving these conditions with the hood open....

    Sorry for the OT stosh1.
    No worries, nothing wrong w/a little discussion, JAWS started it anyway.Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
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    wow awesome. NA power FTW!
    Thank you sir! Yeah, we're encouraged by the results so far...there's a little more work on the bottem-end and mid-range left to do, along w/a catless exhaust that's next on the list.

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    I can see this pulling on a stock E9x

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwtek Click here to enlarge
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    I can see this pulling on a stock E9x
    I've driven them, and I think that it would certainly give one a run for it's money...

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