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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    ESS or VF E9X M3 S65 V8 Supercharger Owners - Piggyback Tune stacking Question

    Hey guys,

    My first post here. Turning in my 19psi+meth N54 e92 335 in a few weeks as my 2013 e92 M3 should be arriving shortly. I bought the M3 with the assumption that it needed a blower for the track/airstrip events I participate in.

    Anyway I haven't decided between an ESS 600 and the VF 620, but my decision will be between these two kits.
    I'm curious whether anyone of you have added a piggy back tune on top of the ESS/VF flash tune that comes with the supercharger kits. I haven't decided on whether I'm going with an ESS or VF kit yet, however, no matter what kit I decide upon, I would like to stack a Procede on top of the ESS/VF flash in order to control meth injection and to also take advantage of the Procede's traction control feature (which is fantastic on my 335).

    So...I got to thinking...why couldn't the Procede also "fine tune" a meth-only map? I have seen Drew's VT3 dyno where meth injection made ~ 10 to 15 more WHP. But the ESS/VF tunes aren't specifically designed with meth in mind. Sure they compensate for lower IAT's and higher effective octane, however there could be quite a bit power left on the table.

    I posted this on M3post which wasn't a hot idea since ESS and EAS/VF monitor that site regularly and I doubt anyone will admit to doing this there.

    Thanks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    I'm curious whether anyone of you have added a piggy back tune on top of the ESS/VF flash tune that comes with the supercharger kits.
    Why would you do this? Nobody runs piggy backs on the M3.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    I would like to stack a Procede on top of the ESS/VF flash in order to control meth injection and to also take advantage of the Procede's traction control feature (which is fantastic on my 335).
    I see what you are saying but you just need a good meth controller and I don't think the Procede will be able to offer traction control with the M3 ECU. The 335 and M3 operate their ECU's differently.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    I have seen Drew's VT3 dyno where meth injection made ~ 10 to 15 more WHP. But the ESS/VF tunes aren't specifically designed with meth in mind. Sure they compensate for lower IAT's and higher effective octane, however there could be quite a bit power left on the table.
    Exactly, you would want a dedicated meth tune to make the most power you possibly could. Just added meth and hoping the ECU adjusts timing a bit will never be as effective.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    No need to stack a piggyback on either one, and i wouldnt do it. A basic meth kit is all thats required as shown from more than a few blown m3's.



    I have a basic meth kit on my car, and will gladly show you the differences in a few days

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why would you do this? Nobody runs piggy backs on the M3.

    I see what you are saying but you just need a good meth controller and I don't think the Procede will be able to offer traction control with the M3 ECU. The 335 and M3 operate their ECU's differently.

    Exactly, you would want a dedicated meth tune to make the most power you possibly could. Just added meth and hoping the ECU adjusts timing a bit will never be as effective.
    I was told the traction control feature is included in the M3 firmware but I could have heard wrong. I worked hard dialing in traction on the 335 with an LSD+Michelin PSS+Procede and am assuming traction is much more difficult to obtain from a dead stop when the M3 is blown (on street tires). Since I already have the Procede and since it can control the meth flow and since it MAY have a traction control feature, I thought, what the heck, I can take the M3 to Shiv and he can tune a custom meth map for me.

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    No piggies. Flash is the way to go. We can easily have files tweaked from ESS to suit otherwise.

    The S65 is already a high strung motor, and these cars have excellent traction control from the start, and an LSD. Coupled with wide tires, you shouldn't have an issue with spinning tires Click here to enlarge

    Another word of advice, we do not use meth as a fuel bandaid like so many others do in N54s. There are a few lost motors as a result. Bigger injectors are always a safer bet.

    10whp you will prolly not feel in the butt dyno.

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    Lost Marine has a very basic kit that is more than adequate. We don't run dual or quad CM10 nozzles lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I have a basic meth kit on my car, and will gladly show you the differences in a few days
    Awesome...looking forward to it. I see you have the VF620 supercharger. What meth kit did you go with? Also, do you have an aftermarket exhaust?

    Thanks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Awesome...looking forward to it. I see you have the VF620 supercharger. What meth kit did you go with? Also, do you have an aftermarket exhaust?

    Thanks.
    He does not have the VF620.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Awesome...looking forward to it. I see you have the VF620 supercharger. What meth kit did you go with? Also, do you have an aftermarket exhaust?

    Thanks.
    Its an ESS 535 kit, stock rear section with cut-outs, cat less front pipe.

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    ya'll are just intent on $#@!in release up arent you..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ya'll are just intent on $#@!in release up arent you..
    ?

    Everyone knows what u got Click here to enlarge

    I was gonna make a thread on your car anyway Click here to enlarge

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    OP - Back to your supercharger choice, the ESS 625 vs the VF620 is a better comparison. If you want a kit that uses Meth, look into the AA Stage 2 kit or Gintani Stage 2+ kits
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    OP - Back to your supercharger choice, the ESS 625 vs the VF620 is a better comparison. If you want a kit that uses Meth, look into the AA Stage 2 kit or Gintani Stage 2+ kits
    Thanks, but unfortunately my M3 is in Cali and we don't have 93 octane here so I have to go with the ESS 600 kit. I did see that AA and Gintani actually incorporate meth in their supercharger applications, but overall I like the ESS/VF kits better, and meth is a fairly easy add on. It's just the tuning for meth on ESS/VF that is my problem. Their flashes don't tune specifically for meth. That's why I want to add the piggy.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Their flashes don't tune specifically for meth. That's why I want to add the piggy.
    VF can do a custom tune I would think.

    Where in Cali are you?
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    LM - curious why you went with the 535 kit? I have a stock turbo full weight e92 with just Procede+meth/water+dci+dps and I ran against two 535 M3's at the Shift-S3ctor events (one was a 6MT driven by Pencil Geek and the other was Roman's DCT) and my car was a good match up for these. And your 335 was an absolute beast and my guess is that it would have ran with the VT2 or even VT3 supercharged M3's.

    I would assume you have some tricks up your sleeve, like maybe meth, smaller pulley???


    Thanks.

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    I think he is just starting.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    VF can do a custom tune I would think.

    Where in Cali are you?
    Nice good idea I will speak with Nick and ask about this. So far all of my inquiries about the VF kit have been through EAS...so maybe since this kit is so new, there are somethings that VF might do that EAS doesn't know about yet.

    I'm in South OC so going up to Anaheim to visit VF or even up north to Bay Area to see Vishnu isn't a problem.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    So far all of my inquiries about the VF kit have been through EAS...so maybe since this kit is so new
    Go through VAC, they are on the forum and can help you: @Mike@VAC

    You're in the basically the same area as me.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Great thanks for all the insights Sticky. Do you have a blown M3?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Do you have a blown M3?
    Yes.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Do you mind sharing your set up? Since I haven't decided on a kit I'm interested in what is working for others. Also curious if you are interested in attending a legal side-by-side acceleration event. Shift-S3ctor is trying to do another Airstrip event in SoCal later this year.

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    you dont want to tune for meth. with or without a piggyback, this is not the n54, i would just about guarantee you will join the ranks of a few other procede users that regret pushing the limits with shiv in their corner.

    If you get an intercooled kit, you dont need meth.

    I have a non IC kit, hence meth, but not tuning for it because i want consistant performance, not maximizing it, otherwise, i would have gone with a higher boost intercooled kit.

    VF cars have an outstanding track record with hot laping their cars on roadcourses- no meth
    ESS cars have only recently been trying out meth, no custom tuning required
    AA cars have been using meth for a while, strictly for IAT suppression, but is not required as i have seen the exact same performance on/off meth

    key point, even if you want a s/c'd M, and meth, no need to waste your $ on a procede+meth kit
    this is about 1/4 the reason i want to show how the bosted Ms react to it.

    you may want to go back and re-read shivs comments on CPS offsetting in the N54 from about a year ago, and crossreference with how the S65 does its timing correction, then read his comments on the vishnu meth kit, and get back to us Click here to enlarge

    answer- he lies, and the procede offers no benefit and only increases the risk to your expensive S65

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Do you mind sharing your set up? Since I haven't decided on a kit I'm interested in what is working for others. Also curious if you are interested in attending a legal side-by-side acceleration event. Shift-S3ctor is trying to do another Airstrip event in SoCal later this year.
    I had the Gintani Stage II+ setup but now have a custom Gintani Stage III with built motor and custom built transmission.
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by longboarder Click here to enlarge
    Do you mind sharing your set up? Since I haven't decided on a kit I'm interested in what is working for others. Also curious if you are interested in attending a legal side-by-side acceleration event. Shift-S3ctor is trying to do another Airstrip event in SoCal later this year.
    Here is some old reading: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...rd-Fastest-E9X

    And have fun with this one: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...nd-Viton-seals
    Chrome Space Bar Issue: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...338#post738338


    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    I gotta be honest...I couldn't read through all 50+ pages. I did lol at some of the banter, however. But what I gathered is that your M3 has been out of commission for almost 2 years with a engine build and DCT upgrade, but when ready will be an absolute beast.

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