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Thread: Cobb Tuning Stage 2 E82 135i takes on an Evolve tuned Stage I E60 M5

              
  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    What does a tuned E60 M5 trap? I know the car is no slouch, thats for sure. BTW, im Cobb, FBO, Meth, & E85. Like i said, i would LOVE to come play.
    Good tune, exhaust, headers, race gas, scoops, and it will do 122.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Good tune, exhaust, headers, race gas, scoops, and it will do 122.
    I would be thrilled if i could keep up with that, not sure. Hoping to hit a test & tune tonight, praying for 120's.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    I would be thrilled if i could keep up with that, not sure. Hoping to hit a test & tune tonight, praying for 120's.
    You won't hit 122 in Florida in the summer. You are going to need some good air.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Good tune, exhaust, headers, race gas, scoops, and it will do 122.
    I trapped 120.19 on the Evolve tune w/ RPi intake on 93 octane. That night I realized I had a faulting throttle actuator that wouldn't let me launch the car, hence my horrid 60' time. It would just roll off the line from 600RPM instead of the 3500RPM it does when healthy. But I did pull a CLK63 Black Series 3x on the highway on the way home that nightClick here to enlarge

    -TZ

    Click here to enlarge
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Black Raven, Auto, Recaros, Stock for now..

    E60 M5 SMG - Sapphire Black exterior, Black interior,
    Full leather, Ventilated comfort seats, Aluminum trim, Alcantara Headliner, Matte Black front/side grills, 20% window tint, Plasti Dipped Black Wheels, Hardwired 9500ix, RPI scoops(Red), Block off plates, BMC filters (c/f delete), Evolve-R Stage 2 Tune, Muffler & Secondary Cat Delete

    P500s S6 DSC OFF- ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.. Unless it's wet out
    Click here to enlarge
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
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    I trapped 120.19 on the Evolve tune w/ RPi intake on 93 octane. That night I realized I had a faulting throttle actuator that wouldn't let me launch the car, hence my horrid 60' time. It would just roll off the line from 600RPM instead of the 3500RPM it does when healthy. But I did pull a CLK63 Black Series 3x on the highway on the way home that nightClick here to enlarge

    -TZ

    Click here to enlarge
    Not bad at all.

    I think headers and race gas will get you a couple more, easy.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    Not bad at all.

    I think headers and race gas will get you a couple more, easy.
    I agree 1000%
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Black Raven, Auto, Recaros, Stock for now..

    E60 M5 SMG - Sapphire Black exterior, Black interior,
    Full leather, Ventilated comfort seats, Aluminum trim, Alcantara Headliner, Matte Black front/side grills, 20% window tint, Plasti Dipped Black Wheels, Hardwired 9500ix, RPI scoops(Red), Block off plates, BMC filters (c/f delete), Evolve-R Stage 2 Tune, Muffler & Secondary Cat Delete

    P500s S6 DSC OFF- ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.. Unless it's wet out
    Click here to enlarge
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    You won't hit 122 in Florida in the summer. You are going to need some good air.
    Hence why im praying for only 120 lolClick here to enlarge

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
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    Needs to be rerun with an Automatic 135i with FBO and E85.... It wouldn't have looked as good for the M5. 135s have trapped over 120 as well...
    It would need to be a 135i with basically everything to have a chance. And I still would take the top end of the S85 with bolt on's.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    It would need to be a 135i with basically everything to have a chance. And I still would take the top end of the S85 with bolt on's.
    It would be a great match-up.. But if the FBO 135i better have minimum a car and a half lead on the M before the SMG gets into 4th gear. IMO my car doesn't get fast until I get into 4th around 100 mph. A lot of people don't realize how freakish the acceleration of a modded M5 is over 100 MPH. I'm always happy to educate in person Click here to enlarge

    -TZ
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Black Raven, Auto, Recaros, Stock for now..

    E60 M5 SMG - Sapphire Black exterior, Black interior,
    Full leather, Ventilated comfort seats, Aluminum trim, Alcantara Headliner, Matte Black front/side grills, 20% window tint, Plasti Dipped Black Wheels, Hardwired 9500ix, RPI scoops(Red), Block off plates, BMC filters (c/f delete), Evolve-R Stage 2 Tune, Muffler & Secondary Cat Delete

    P500s S6 DSC OFF- ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.. Unless it's wet out
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    For the launch the 135i needs a LSD IMO but we are running again in a week or two & from a dig should be interesting. I have noticed that N55's are stronger than the N54 from what I have seen, less prone to heat soak.

    I have ran four different variations of 135i's and they all get slower and slower on every run, heat soak is there kryptonite and summer temps don't help them at all.

    I'll tell him to keep his windows up on the next runs....lol.


    I ran 135i N55 meth JB4+ (map 7), etc. pulled on it @ 4th. I'll track that guy down and see if I can get a video up.
    Last edited by khyber; 08-02-2012 at 04:06 PM.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by khyber Click here to enlarge
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    For the launch the 135i needs a LSD IMO
    If you have traction an open diff doesn't really have a disadvantage from a stop. Many good 60 foots have been set without an LSD by the N54 cars.
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  12. #37
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    M5 pulled it pretty hard, even down low. Impressed to say the lease from both cars though lots of room left on each of them

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
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    M5 pulled it pretty hard, even down low. Impressed to say the lease from both cars though lots of room left on each of them
    yeah they do. Only problem is E60 M5 mods to get a marginal amount of whp increase get super pricey Click here to enlarge lol

    135i guys have it easy.... Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by khyber Click here to enlarge
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    135i guys have it easy....
    And less satisfying.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by khyber Click here to enlarge
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    yeah they do. Only problem is E60 M5 mods to get a marginal amount of whp increase get super pricey Click here to enlarge lol

    135i guys have it easy.... Click here to enlarge

    Sort of...

    De-cat it
    Modify the induction system
    tune it
    = beast

    N54 requires significant boost increase and cooling mods "just" to put up a consistent fight, and it's 1000lbs lighter give or take...
    Alpha ///N - YouTube: 95CSL
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    lol I jsut got it like 2 weeks ago!!..plus im still trying to decide which one to get..i think im going with the evolve r tune

    good choice. I'm thinking about upgrading to Evolve Alpha-N.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    that 135i is not taking the M5 from a dig, roll, backwards, or anything else for that matter..the M5 is a beast..i had a cobb stage 2+ agressive FBO 335i and it was fast, but it doesnt compare to my M5 now, and all I have on the M5 is rpi scoops, block off plates, bmc filters, and miesterchaft full exhaust..cant wait to see how it is once I get it tuned
    WOW what a sin! Click here to enlarge

    But seriously man, I wouldn't give a cent to those guys at eisenhaus/gthaus. Bunch of crooks.

    And as for the tune, i suggest get an Alpha-N tune.
    Last edited by Sorena; 08-03-2012 at 05:50 AM.

  18. #43
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    yeah im not really sure what the Alpha N is al about but I defeintly want to look into it..I went on their website and I couldnt tell the difference,,the descritpions were the same for the evolve r and alpha n

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    yeah im not really sure what the Alpha N is al about but I defeintly want to look into it..I went on their website and I couldnt tell the difference,,the descritpions were the same for the evolve r and alpha n
    Search M5Board, a lot of info there. Let me see what I can dig up!

    Alpha-N removes the mafs for a more crisp/less lag throttle response. A M6 owner even reported a better 60-130 vbox time by 0.01/0.02.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
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    yeah im not really sure what the Alpha N is al about but I defeintly want to look into it..I went on their website and I couldnt tell the difference,,the descritpions were the same for the evolve r and alpha n
    I think the trouble you are having is a tuner took the name Alpha-N whereas Alpha-N refers to the tuning approach.

    This is a good explanation:

    I know many folks on this board understand quite well what Alpha-N is, but this is for those who don't understand it. I remember how that felt, so I will offer my version of an explanation.

    An engine management computer, regardless of how sophisticated or crude, really only controls two parameters. The ignition timing and the fuel delivery. The computer (DME or some aftermarket brand) uses an array of input sensors to try and determine what state the engine is in at any point in time. Is it loafing along on the freeway at low rpm, or at max throttle climbing a hill at high rpm? Is it hot outside so that the air is thin? Or is it butt cold and the air is real dense?

    The list goes on, but the goal of the computer at all times is to sample its input sensors and then determine the appropriate output signals for ignition timing and fuel delivery (usually this determines how long the fuel injectors fire, which is called the pulse width, but it can also entail "when" to fire the injectors if the injection is sequential).

    The two most important things that the computer wants to know in order to determine spark and fuel are: 1) engine load, and 2) engine rpm.

    Engine rpm is easily determined from a crank sensor. But engine load is a little more tricky. The best parameter to use in determining engine load is the MASS of air entering the engine at any time. If you can measure the mass of air directly then you are well off. Current BMW's do just this with what is called a MAF sensor, or mass air flow sensor. This is usually some type of heated wire or film, which is cooled by the air flowing over it. In order to keep the wire at the same temperature additional electrical current must be provided, and the measure of this extra current gives a fairly direct indication of the mass air flow.

    Our E30 M3's used a similar system, although it measures the VOLUME of air flowing into the engine. The sensor is called an AFM, which stands for air flow meter. The volumetric flow is determined by how far a flapper (or barn door) is pushed aside by the incoming air. The flapper is connected to a potentiometer (variable resistor, POT, wiper, there are many names). But for the computer to know how much fuel to mix with the air it needs to know how many molecules of air are coming in, and that can only be determined by knowing the MASS of the air, not just the volume. So, we need to combine the AFM air volume signal with an air TEMPERATURE measurement Then the air mass can be determined. So we are ok.

    Note that in both cases the computer has some hard data on how much air is entering the engine, so if you improve engine breathing (header cams etc...), the basic code will still sort of work as the computer is aware of the additional air. It's not perfect, but it works ok most of the time for changes that are not too drastically different than the baseline.

    Alpha-N is different. Here there is no direct measurement of either the mass of air, nor the volume of air entering the engine. That way any possible obstruction from either a MAF sensor or AFM sensor in the intake path is removed. The air can flow right into the engine unobstructed. So how does the computer know what to do? It still has rpm info from the crank, but it can't measure the mass of air coming into the engine for fuel mixture determination?

    The answer, in a crude sense, is that you "train" the computer what to do in a given situation (on the dyno). For every possible combination of throttle position and rpm, the tuner determines the appropriate ignition timing and fuel delivery to yield max power but not incur detonation. The computer just remembers all this (in the form of maps which are stored on a chip), and when it sees a certain combination of rpm and throttle position in the field, it just says "what did they tell me to do in this situation?" and does that.

    So now throttle position and RPM are the two dominant input parameters to the engine computer. This is where the Alpha-N name derives from. Alpha for the angle of the throttle plates and N for RPM.

    Now if you have an Alpha-N system, and add a hotter set of cams that allow more air into the engine, but you do not reprogram the Alpha-N computer, then the computer has no knowledge of the extra air now entering the engine and it just gives the fuel and spark that it was told was appropriate for the milder set of cams. One can see how this could be a problem. Your mixture especially, but also your ignition timing will be way off. If your mixture goes lean you can potentially damage the engine. That is why folks say that an Alpha-N system needs to be retuned everytime you make a change to the engine. The computer is "flying blind" to some extent, although it does at least have an air temp sensor and a barro sensor to try to compensate for density changes in the air due to temperature and elevation.

    I have oversimplified some subjects to make it easier to understand, and as usual there is probably more that I did not say than that I did say about Alpha-N, but hopefully that gets some folks a little closer to understanding it.
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    I miss my m5! Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I think the trouble you are having is a tuner took the name Alpha-N whereas Alpha-N refers to the tuning approach.

    This is a good explanation:

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    thanks for that Sticky, much appreciated..I'll definetly look into this more

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    The Alpha-N tune is somehow dangerous as some say. But if you don't do much vertical travels -like going from a beach to a mountain pick -then you should be fine. Alpha-N gives a razor sharp throttle response and more power.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
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    The Alpha-N tune is somehow dangerous as some say. But if you don't do much vertical travels -like going from a beach to a mountain pick -then you should be fine. Alpha-N gives a razor sharp throttle response and more power.
    It's not dangerous people just say you don't use it with large altitude changes.
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    I have only one experience with a modded V10. I followed a heavily modded e60 M6 around Big Willow. His estimated HP was 580. I have an n54 335 with the following engine mods: dci, procede, meth, dps. I made 412/446 corrected. DA's that day were around 4,000 ft.

    Following the M6 around turn 9, I was able to pull on him on the back straight - from ~ 90 mph to 145 mph. I followed him on 3 laps and just kinda stayed with him and then on the 3rd lap decided to pass...I started 2 cars behind after coming around the turn and ended up dead even with him entering turn 1. My pull was quite strong and kept getting stronger as speeds increased.

    This was an event sponsored by Shift-S3ctor, and there was a side by side roll-on portion of the event later in the afternoon...so I went up to the owner of the M6 and asked him to run. I said..."hey we should run because we are very evenly matched....I'm the gray BMW that was behind you a couple laps".

    The owner of the M6 said, so what kinda car do you have? I said 335 with a dci, procede, meth and dps. The M6 owner's eyes got a big and then proceded to tell me that he was done for the day and not doing any more races Click here to enlarge

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