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  1. #1
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    Mustang Dyno & Cobb = no bueno?

    So I went to go get protuned today, quite the frustrating experience. Car oscillated and had throttle closures on the dyno, and actual load on the dyno didn't match what we were seeing on the street. In the end we just street tuned the car. Anyone else run into these issues on a MD? Any luck using a dyno jet instead.

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    I think it wasn't setup correctly. Cobb themselves develops these on a Mustang MD-AWD-500. The irony. Lol. Were you using a 3.01 file? They oscillate on dyno, street.

    -Bren (Cobb Protuner)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    I think it wasn't setup correctly. Cobb themselves develops these on a Mustang MD-AWD-500. The irony. Lol. Were you using a 3.01 file? They oscillate on dyno, street.

    -Bren (Cobb Protuner)
    not sure what he started with but we ended up using the V402 mapping. On the dyno we would see actual load of 170 and be hitting boost ceiling whereas actual load on the street would be 180ish and hitting right under boost ceiling.

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    who was doing the tuning?

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    I just got my car protuned on a mustang dyno. It was a mustang Dyno awd 500SE. My car had no issues.
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    They use the same dyno. Shop was Performance Race Solutions(PRS) in Sanford Fl. It was as if the MD was applying too much load which made the car overboost. Same map on the street would run fine. I dont want to say it was complete and total waste of time, but it was pretty close. In the end we spent about 4 hours making two maps - 1 E85/93 + Meth mix and a 93 Oct + Meth mix map. The tuner was more frustrated than me, and he tried to get things right but in the end im basically running a Cobb Stage 2 +FMIC V402 Aggressive map with more timing and some tweaked AFR's - same thing i was doing in ATR. We werent able to dial in any additional boost in the upper RPM's, couldnt dial in faster boost response. I really wish Cobb could find a way to simplify boost targeting, this PID business is a PITA.

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    Sounds like your tuner is pretty new to the n54

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like your tuner is pretty new to the n54
    3rd one he's tuned. As it stands right now it sounds like theres probably a half dozen people capable of actually tuning the N54 via Cobb. It just sucks to think i would probably lose to a Jb4 or Procede car running the same mods, after spending about 1k more on "tuning." I'm tempted to hit up PTF to see if they could dial in more boost in the upper RPM's, but im just lighting my dollar bills up and smoking them at this point.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    They use the same dyno. Shop was Performance Race Solutions(PRS) in Sanford Fl. It was as if the MD was applying too much load which made the car overboost. Same map on the street would run fine. I dont want to say it was complete and total waste of time, but it was pretty close. In the end we spent about 4 hours making two maps - 1 E85/93 + Meth mix and a 93 Oct + Meth mix map. The tuner was more frustrated than me, and he tried to get things right but in the end im basically running a Cobb Stage 2 +FMIC V402 Aggressive map with more timing and some tweaked AFR's - same thing i was doing in ATR. We werent able to dial in any additional boost in the upper RPM's, couldnt dial in faster boost response. I really wish Cobb could find a way to simplify boost targeting, this PID business is a PITA.
    What were you trying to accomplish out of your tune? Sounds like you were trying to hit certain boost, what was that curve? It doesn't sound like that shop knows what they're doing on this particular car with ATP to be honest.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like your tuner is pretty new to the n54
    Good to see you back!

    Lulz - I don't mean any disrespect but I think Loosh is being generous with that statement. PID tuning is not a new practice. Nearly all newer cars use PID loops and wgdc tables to tune as they are mostly all load based. That is the direction ecu's are going because it is more reliable and consistent (power output). The car outputs that load and adjusts the different parameters to do so most efficiently.

    I have never heard of that shop before so I can not comment on them. I spent 25 years in Florida (Miami, Tampa, Orlando, etc). I come down quite often if you ever want more help. I have my immediate family in Miami and Jacksonville and inlaws in Tampa.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    What were you trying to accomplish out of your tune? Sounds like you were trying to hit certain boost, what was that curve? It doesn't sound like that shop knows what they're doing on this particular car with ATP to be honest.
    The curve we tried running on the dyno was standard Cobb S2+ Agg - nothing special. First pull on the dyno was clean, but timing was conservative as he wanted to get a baseline - 344whp 388wtq i believe on 60/40 meth and 93 octane. Every pull after that it would oscillate and close throttle so bad he would have to abort the run - and he wasnt even touching the PID tables at that point, it was wierd. He tried doing a 3rd gear pull on the same map and it would only hit 16psi and taper down. 4th gear would overboost, 3rd gear would underboost, same map - no changes. Definately a WTF moment.

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    @jhershorin, @dzenno, what kind of psi are you guys seeing up top on an E85 & Meth tunes? I just looked at a PROcede log of 93 octane and meth and the guy is carrying 18psi in the midrange and to redline...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @jhershorin , @dzenno , what kind of psi are you guys seeing up top on an E85 & Meth tunes? I just looked at a PROcede log of 93 octane and meth and the guy is carrying 18psi in the midrange and to redline...
    On my personal car I am running 3.5 gallons e85 and 11.5 gallons of 93. I have 50/50 meth mix in my tank and I am running about 18.5 tapering to 14. I've had it pushing more. I've had it pushing less. I was happy with my tune at this level. I may do an all out track map that will command a little more but as is the car is incredibly fast and fun to drive.

    I am a big proponent of staying within efficiency ranges as much as possible and when I do push them it isn't all TOO far. I don't shoot for max boost, max this, max that. I shoot for what makes the car perform as I want it and the way I want it. I haven't dyno'd it yet but I will soon. I am breaking in a new clutch (that I don't think I like lol) and will do more after.

    It is very reasonable to want more boost up top and it is doable as well. You just have to have a good understanding of about 6-7 parameters and 3-4 tables and how they interact with eachother. Once you have that relationship mapped out in your mind - controlling boost becomes easier. When the seasons change my boost will change but the layout won't. I have it setup to behave in a certain way and because we target load it will everytime. It will just adjust up and down the amount of boost within the limits I set.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like your tuner is pretty new to the n54
    I mentioned this at the onset of the Group Buy at PRS so they could buy the protuner license. I was told it's simple car anyone can figure out (which i know it is not). And here we are.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...unding-regions

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    They use the same dyno. Shop was Performance Race Solutions(PRS) in Sanford Fl. It was as if the MD was applying too much load which made the car overboost. Same map on the street would run fine. I dont want to say it was complete and total waste of time, but it was pretty close. In the end we spent about 4 hours making two maps - 1 E85/93 + Meth mix and a 93 Oct + Meth mix map. The tuner was more frustrated than me, and he tried to get things right but in the end im basically running a Cobb Stage 2 +FMIC V402 Aggressive map with more timing and some tweaked AFR's - same thing i was doing in ATR. We werent able to dial in any additional boost in the upper RPM's, couldnt dial in faster boost response. I really wish Cobb could find a way to simplify boost targeting, this PID business is a PITA.
    same guys that were boosting over 19 psi on the car you keep referencing?

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    Prs has worked on serious cars incuding an 800 whp built rx7...but I am not so sure of their knowledge on German cars. Search youtube; 1bad20b... just dont pee in your pants.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    same guys that were boosting over 19 psi on the car you keep referencing?
    Yep. After talking with the tuner they were actually hitting over 20psi momentarily but it was not sustained. For whatever reason that car was not as quick to have throttle closures, mine acts like a little $#@! anytime it gets past 18.6psi. Maybe its a different ROM or something, not sure. That car was an '08, mine is an early '07.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    Prs has worked on serious cars incuding an 800 whp built rx7...but I am not so sure of their knowledge on German cars. Search youtube; 1bad20b... just dont pee in your pants.
    Yeah my jaw dropped at the some of the cars they had in the shop. Drag RX7 thats shooting for over 2000whp, a handful of large turbo evo's and subies. E36 M3 track car that they were planning on dropping an E60 v10 in but the motor was jacked up. Porsche 997, Mini's, old Ford RS2000 rally car. Some cool cars thats for sure.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah my jaw dropped at the some of the cars they had in the shop. Drag RX7 thats shooting for over 2000whp, a handful of large turbo evo's and subies. E36 M3 track car that they were planning on dropping an E60 v10 in but the motor was jacked up. Porsche 997, Mini's, old Ford RS2000 rally car. Some cool cars thats for sure.
    I actually went to a meet with the guy that owned 1bad20b long before he sold it back when I lived in FL. That was quite possibly the most bad ass car on earth... its sound could turn old men into schoolgirls.

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    That rx7 is a bad $#@!. I saw it at cars and cafe in Orlando back in 2009. Not only fast, but very well kept.

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