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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    The majority of the population in the world doesn't want to own a gun, doesn't want to carry a gun, doesn't even want to look at a gun. There is no argument on my part, the United States has the loosest gun control laws in the world already. Why are we not the safest but the bloodiest 1st world country?
    its a good point but I would modify the gun control laws slightly. I would add some sort of poly testing along with a psychological examination before u can buy. You can still get it, it's just much tougher. I have a ccw from Florida and i think its too easy to get one.

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    remember YOUR willingness to relinquish YOUR rights doesnt mean you should have the authority to take away someone else's rights.

    cars kill more people in US than anything else.
    because of this some people choose not to own drive or be around cars
    that doesnt give them the right to take mine.
    i respectfully disagree that gun control is the reason people kill each other.

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    Unbelievable. That gunman should get a death penalty for murdering innocent people for no reason
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sleepr6 Click here to enlarge
    remember YOUR willingness to relinquish YOUR rights doesnt mean you should have the authority to take away someone else's rights. remember YOUR willingness to relinquish YOUR rights doesnt mean you should have the authority to take away someone else's rights.

    cars kill more people in US than anything else.
    because of this some people choose not to own drive or be around cars
    that doesnt give them the right to take mine.
    i respectfully disagree that gun control is the reason people kill each other.
    There is a certain responsibility that has to come along with gun ownerships and sales. The primary use of guns is to take peoples lives efficiently, the rest is secondary...collectors items, target practice blah blah blah...

    In saying that, I respectfully disagree that being able to walk into any store selling guns and then walking out of it with such a device within an hour is responsible enough. As in the last few massacres each time the weapons were purchased legally.
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    There is a certain responsibility that has to come along with gun ownerships and sales. The primary use of guns is to take peoples lives efficiently, the rest is secondary...collectors items, target practice blah blah blah...

    In saying that, I respectfully disagree that being able to walk into any store selling guns and then walking out of it with such a device within an hour is responsible enough. As in the last few massacres each time the weapons were purchased legally.
    negative sir. hunting and target shooting are the #1 reasons, self/home defense becoms a part of that, and they are intwined.
    people are afraid of guns because they are brought up in the current era to be afraid of them, are not taught how to handle them, and how to use them.

    you have a northeastern mentality about. spend some more time in the south and west where children are taught how to use them from a young age. Not to mention states like Texas with an open carry, what are their violent crime rates like? what about Philadelphia/PA

    Criminals dont care about the regulations. Anyone of us can go and get a throw-away for $300right now, do we choose to? no, crack and heroin are completey outlawed and that doesn seem to stop the use and sale, but I dont see all of use right now jonesing for our next fix, right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    negative sir. hunting and target shooting are the #1 reasons, self/home defense becoms a part of that, and they are intwined.
    people are afraid of guns because they are brought up in the current era to be afraid of them, are not taught how to handle them, and how to use them.

    you have a northeastern mentality about. spend some more time in the south and west where children are taught how to use them from a young age. Not to mention states like Texas with an open carry, what are their violent crime rates like? what about Philadelphia/PA

    Criminals dont care about the regulations. Anyone of us can go and get a throw-away for $300right now, do we choose to? no, crack and heroin are completey outlawed and that doesn seem to stop the use and sale, but I dont see all of use right now jonesing for our next fix, right?
    You didn't understand what I meant. I didn't say what the primary use for guns is in the USA or what people put on their applications to obtain them. What I meant is that the gun was invented to take away life and that is what it's primary use is throughout history. Armies around the world don't throw snowballs at each other because that is not an efficient way to kill.

    Going by the statistics compiled in 2010 by the FBI and published by The Guardian looks like the states with most gun related homicides are the southern states....don't know how that can back your argument here:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...crime-us-state

    My mentality about guns is formed entirely by my own opinions not shaped by where I live or who I vote for. Do I want to rid civilians of gun ownership? No I don't. Do I want them to jump through flaming hoops and swim through a pool with sharks? Well that will certainly stop a lot of the people who shouldn't own guns from owning them. Will it stop gun related homicides entirely? Definitely not. This certainly is a problem, this certainly isn't a way people in the 1st world act, and it certainly will not work itself out if we stay the course of doing nothing.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    negative sir. hunting and target shooting are the #1 reasons, self/home defense becoms a part of that, and they are intwined.
    people are afraid of guns because they are brought up in the current era to be afraid of them, are not taught how to handle them, and how to use them.

    you have a northeastern mentality about. spend some more time in the south and west where children are taught how to use them from a young age. Not to mention states like Texas with an open carry, what are their violent crime rates like? what about Philadelphia/PA

    Criminals dont care about the regulations. Anyone of us can go and get a throw-away for $300right now, do we choose to? no, crack and heroin are completey outlawed and that doesn seem to stop the use and sale, but I dont see all of use right now jonesing for our next fix, right?
    texas isnt open carry

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    Yeah, keep making weapons available to anyone, and $#@! like this will keep happening. Why can't people see behind the NRA and weapon lobby's scare tactics?
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    Dark, packed out theater, tear gas, people running in panic. I doubt that getting a lot of achievements in COD and BF are training enough in scenario like this. Even a trained police officer might have trouble finding his target, but I'd trust him over a carrying civilian any day of the week.
    Not all of us are just civilians with a CCW permit and some hours on call of duty. Many "civilians" have more training the most police officers when it comes to weapons employment both in and out of heavy bystander situations.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    you cant CCW in a theatre there. This has already started HUGE $#@! been pro and anti gun lobbyists.

    but all normal people can see that 1 CCw would have stopped it short of what it came too.

    Im currently arguing with a retard that thinks it would have been worse with people and ccw. and i was in the army w/ this guy. what a shame..
    Theaters are blanketed as no go? Wow. Just wow.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
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    LO this pic made me laugh

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    World Fastest (NA) SLS AMG in a Standing 1/2 Mile
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    I'm gonna speak my 2 cents and then be quiet on the subject. Folks can take this whatever way the please but I won't be saying anything else on it...

    1. This man was wearing FULL body armor. That included his legs, groin, neck, head, back & chest... Put that into perspective for a moment of what level of protection that is and why one would wear it.

    2. One or more people with CCW's would have been carrying pistols and would have done what exactly? Besides becoming targets and endangering anyone standing by them when this guy decided to spray in their direction. The best trained Military & Police personnel would have needed to engage in hand to hand combat to disarm him. Popping off rounds with a hand gun wasn't going to stop him. Distract him for sure and if folks had a plan then maybe that helps.

    3. This man had 4 weapons including an assault riffle, he wasn't out for a stroll he was out to kill and achieved his goal rather easily.

    I don't care where you stand on guns. Whether you be for them or against them but we need tougher laws around who gets a gun, how you get it and how long it takes to get one. Along with what types of weapons does the common civilian need. WTF does the average person do with an Assault Rifle? Seriously you don't hunt with them, you're really not at the range shooting with them and what sporting event really requires something like that? Say what you will but at some point logic needs to set in here. This whole thing from the NRA on they want to take your guns is BS. You want guns, fine so be it but then you need to be cleared mentally, criminally and physically to have one of any type. Frankly anyone who wants high capacity clips and the like should be further scrutinized. Frankly I do see any need to a civilian to need extra clip capacity at all but whatever. I digress

    Just because its a right doesn't mean you get to have a gun, its a privilege plain and simple. You need to earn the right to acquire one legally... Got criminal convictions then its a a big NO, ANY history or mental illness or incapacity then NO, can't pass a rigorous training course(Which should cost you a nice fee to the state to take IMO. Again you need to earn the right) to use one then NO you can't have one either. CCW should be for the Military, Police, Armed Security and business owners who deal in cash or valuables ONLY, thats right I said it. Their are some exceptions that may apply here and there but for the most part that covers it. Half the idiots packin a pistol are not really skilled to use it and more likely to get killed with their own weapon.

    Protect your home and family with a weapon, hunt with it or do competitive shooting with them. Thats it IMO you don't need it any other time...
    We stay swingin...
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    The more someone says people dont need weapons, the more they do, free men own guns, servants do not. its plain and simple, shown throughout history

    *Gun History *

    After reading the following historical facts, read the part about
    Switzerland twice

    A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.. From 1929 to
    1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
    up and exterminated.

    ------------------------------

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1..5 million
    Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.

    ------------------------------

    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from
    1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to
    defend themselves were
    rounded up and exterminated.

    ------------------------------

    China established gun control in 1935. From
    1948 to 1952, 20 million
    political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated

    ------------------------------

    Guatemala established gun control in
    1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend
    themselves, were rounded up
    and exterminated..

    ------------------------------

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From
    1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were
    rounded up and
    exterminated

    ------------------------------

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
    educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
    exterminated.

    -----------------------------

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
    because of gun control: 56 million.

    SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
    SWITZERLAND'S GOVERNMENT ISSUES EVERY ADULT THEY TRAIN A RIFLE.
    SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY
    CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD


    With guns, we are 'citizens.'
    Without them, we are 'subjects'.

    During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
    most Americans were armed

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    Crazy! Totally tragic, but with my first kid that is just a year, the thought of children being hurt makes me particularly ill.

    Some maniac killed 3 cops 3 years ago in Pittsburgh no more than 5 mins from my house. Guy was armed to the teeth and with full body armor. Cops landed dozens of shots on him with hand guns to no avail.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...andoff-336537/

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    * Based on survey data from the U.S. Department of Justice, roughly 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the United States during 2008. These include simple/aggravated assaults, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes, and murders.[13] [14] [15] Of these, about 436,000 or 8% were committed by offenders visibly armed with a gun.[16]

    * Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

    * A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

    * A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

    * A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

    • 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
    • 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]


    Click here to enlarge
    During the years in which the D.C. handgun ban and trigger lock law was in
    effect, the Washington, D.C. murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the
    outset of the law, while the U.S. murder rate averaged 11% lower

  16. #41
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    * In 1920, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess any firearm except a shotgun. To obtain this certificate, the applicant had to pay a fee, and the chief of police had to be "satisfied" that the applicant had "good reason for requiring such a certificate" and did not pose a "danger to the public safety or to the peace." The certificate had to specify the types and quantities of firearms and ammunition that the applicant could purchase and keep.[38]

    * In 1968, Britain made the 1920 law stricter by requiring civilians to obtain a certificate from their district police chief in order to purchase or possess a shotgun. This law also required that firearm certificates specify the identification numbers ("if known") of all firearms and shotguns owned by the applicant.[39]
    * In 1997, Britain passed a law requiring civilians to surrender almost all privately owned handguns to the police. More than 162,000 handguns and 1.5 million pounds of ammunition were "compulsorily surrendered" by February 1998. Using "records of firearms held on firearms certificates," police accounted for all but fewer than eight of all legally owned handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales.[40]

    On October 1, 1987, Florida's right-to-carry law became effective.[103]


    * This law requires that concealed carry licensees be 21 years of age or older, have clean criminal/mental health records, and complete a firearms safety/training course.[104]
    * As of July 31, 2010, Florida has issued 1,825,143 permits and has 746,430 active licensees,[105] constituting roughly 5.4% of the state's population that is 21 years of age or older.[106]


    Click here to enlarge

    Since the outset of the Florida right-to-carry law, the Florida murder rate has
    averaged 36% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder
    rate has averaged 15% lower.[108]




    * From the outset of the Florida
    right-to-carry law through July 31, 2010, Florida has revoked 5,674 or 0.3% of
    all issued permits. Of these:




    • 522 permits were revoked
    for crimes committed prior to licensure

    • 4,955 permits were revoked
    for crimes committed after licensure, of which 168 involved the usage of a
    firearm

    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Since the outset of the Texas right-to-carry law, the Texas murder rate has averaged 30% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 28% lower.[115]

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge

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    to equate, I think anyone who has not had at least 40 hours of professional instruction on high speed driving, should be barred from purchasing or obtaining any vehicle that can exceed 55mph and 300 hp.

    Also, due to the complex maneuvers of utilizing a motor vehicle, manual transmissions also will not be sold to any persons not having 120 hours of specific instruction

    Surely, with such a high homicide and accident rate among motorists, this is a real threat that can be detered with more strict control and regulation

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    aditionally, any vehcle that visually or audible produces an "aggressive" attitude shall not be available for registration for use on public roads

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    aditionally, any vehcle that visually or audible produces an "aggressive" attitude shall not be available for registration for use on public roads
    LOL

    You would make a good logical politician. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    I'm gonna speak my 2 cents and then be quiet on the subject. Folks can take this whatever way the please but I won't be saying anything else on it...

    1. This man was wearing FULL body armor. That included his legs, groin, neck, head, back & chest... Put that into perspective for a moment of what level of protection that is and why one would wear it.

    2. One or more people with CCW's would have been carrying pistols and would have done what exactly? Besides becoming targets and endangering anyone standing by them when this guy decided to spray in their direction. The best trained Military & Police personnel would have needed to engage in hand to hand combat to disarm him. Popping off rounds with a hand gun wasn't going to stop him. Distract him for sure and if folks had a plan then maybe that helps.

    3. This man had 4 weapons including an assault riffle, he wasn't out for a stroll he was out to kill and achieved his goal rather easily.

    I don't care where you stand on guns. Whether you be for them or against them but we need tougher laws around who gets a gun, how you get it and how long it takes to get one. Along with what types of weapons does the common civilian need. WTF does the average person do with an Assault Rifle? Seriously you don't hunt with them, you're really not at the range shooting with them and what sporting event really requires something like that? Say what you will but at some point logic needs to set in here. This whole thing from the NRA on they want to take your guns is BS. You want guns, fine so be it but then you need to be cleared mentally, criminally and physically to have one of any type. Frankly anyone who wants high capacity clips and the like should be further scrutinized. Frankly I do see any need to a civilian to need extra clip capacity at all but whatever. I digress

    Just because its a right doesn't mean you get to have a gun, its a privilege plain and simple. You need to earn the right to acquire one legally... Got criminal convictions then its a a big NO, ANY history or mental illness or incapacity then NO, can't pass a rigorous training course(Which should cost you a nice fee to the state to take IMO. Again you need to earn the right) to use one then NO you can't have one either. CCW should be for the Military, Police, Armed Security and business owners who deal in cash or valuables ONLY, thats right I said it. Their are some exceptions that may apply here and there but for the most part that covers it. Half the idiots packin a pistol are not really skilled to use it and more likely to get killed with their own weapon.

    Protect your home and family with a weapon, hunt with it or do competitive shooting with them. Thats it IMO you don't need it any other time...
    Not to say you don't have a good point here and don't know what experience you have with it, but even the latest in body armor will not protect many areas from most types of rounds. Head for example. Even the latest issued military helmets will not stop direct impacts from even most handgun rounds, especially if you are using something with a high muzzle velocity. (9mm, .357 SIG etc.) And personally I load talon rounds in my CC which are basically a hollow point with a heavy sabot in the center which further increases armor penetration (though not technically an armor piercing round).

    When it comes to the rest of the body, it isn't like the movies. A vest may save your life, hell sometimes you may stay standing. But chances are you will go down hard, you will have trouble breathing, and you will have dropped whatever you were hold. At least long enough for someone to restrain you or put a round in something soft.

    As far as the last part, you are wrong. The constitution gives Americans the RIGHT to own firearms that means you get to have them if you so choose. It is not a privilege in any way other than the privilege you have to be an American citizen I suppose.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    aditionally, any vehcle that visually or audible produces an "aggressive" attitude shall not be available for registration for use on public roads
    What do you mean by aggressive attitude?
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    WTF does the average person do with an Assault Rifle?
    A tragedy like this and everyone wants to ban guns. An average person doesn't need it but should have the right to have it. The idea isn't to weaken average citizens and strengthen the state. Why don't you just give them complete control of the population? The whole idea is that people can have weapons so ultimately they can defend themselves from abuse no matter the source.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    You need to earn the right to acquire one legally...
    No, it's a guaranteed right. It's in the Bill of Rights. You don't need to earn it, you get it as a citizen and it can not be taken from you. Any restriction on it is BS.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    The constitution gives Americans the RIGHT to own firearms that means you get to have them if you so choose. It is not a privilege in any way other than the privilege you have to be an American citizen I suppose.
    Exactly.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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