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  1. #1
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    Datalogging & Cobb

    I seen a couple people ask about a DIY on the datlogging with Cobb so I'm going to post this up here. This is just a DIY I grew together a while back for somewhere else. I'm in no way an expert or anything. Dzenno, jhershorin, themyst or any number of guys here could expand on this greatly/correct any errors I've made. This is all just based on my logs/maybe the hundred logs I've been able to look through and some supposition on my part.

    There has been a surge in members new to Cobb asking about how to datalog and graph the results. Here's a quick DIY on doing this. This is just to get you started on the right foot. There's a lot to learn and it's pretty fun doing so.
    1) Setup the datalogging list or just use the Default list.
    *RPM, Accel Pedal Pos, TPS ACT, Load Requested, Actual Load, Req Boost, Boost Mean Abs, Cyl 1-6 Timing Correction, Cyl 1 timing, Bank 1 and 2 lambda(AFR) and Boost
    2) Find a long, straight, level and empty stretch of road.
    3) COMPLETELY DISABLE traction control, if you do not do this you will have throttle closures
    4) This step depends on how comfortable you are/how safe it will be to redline 4th gear. If you are comfortable doing that, then you should a 3rd-4th gear pull. If you are not comfortable at those speed(~130mph) then do a 2nd-3rd gear pull.
    4.1) On the AP go to the logging menu and select datalog. The screen then should say something like "Press OK to Begin Recording"
    4.2) Get your RPMs to about 2,500. Allow your RPMs to settle and then press "OK" on the AP IMMEDIATELY before going WOT.
    4.3) Be sure to hold the Accelerator to the floor all the way, do not allow it to return at all.
    4.4) Shift into the next gear and go all the way to redline and then let off the throttle.
    5) Once you have your datalog recorded you need to connect it to your computer and use the AP manager to transfer it onto your computer.
    6) At this point you can use Excel, Zasquatch's excellent Excel grapher(http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665232) or Virtual Dyno(http://bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/)
    6.1) Using VD setup up your car profile and then load your run. Select the icon in the lower right corner of the Dyno summary box and that will bring up the data viewer.
    6.2) select the channels you want to view and review your data.


    Here's a list and explanation of the BASIC(i.e. major) channels that should be logged.


    How to read the Data: I'll go over the main logging channels and what you SHOULD be seeing.

    AFR(lambda): AFR is the ratio of air to fuel as measured by the O2 sensors in the DP. AFRs should be between ~11.7 and ~12.3. You will see a spike during the shift but the AFRs should immediately settle back down after the shift.
    Here's a pic of how AFRs should look
    Click here to enlarge

    Boost: Requested Boost and Boost Mean Abs are what the DME use and are useful when helping to determine if you have a boost leak. Boost is more universally accepted amd understood. Boost the pressure in the Chargepipe as measured at the TMAP sensor. This will vary depending on what map you're running. On stage 2+ Sport you should be seeing ~16.psi tapering down to ~12.5psi. On stage 2+ Aggressive you should be seeing ~18.5psi in the mid-range tapering down to ~12.5psi near redline
    Here's a pic of how boost should look
    Click here to enlarge


    Charge air temps(IAT): IAT is what the Charge air temperature is. This will vary wildy due to mods(namely FMIC and if meth injection is used) and ambient temps/humidity. The lower the IATs the better.

    Tming and Timing Corrections: Timing and Timing corrections are interlinked as timing corrections determines how your timing looks. As soon as you go WOT Timing will spike upwards until the TMAP sensor sees boost and the DME enters "spool mode" at this point the timing will take a serious dive. It"s when the timing begins to recover from this dive that you need to start paying close attention. Timing should steadily climb upwards through the rev range until redline. Timing corrections occur when the DME sees something it doesn't like from the knock detection system or IATs get too high. Timing corrections occur in increments of 3. A -3 timing correction will result in a 3 degree pull in timing(see pic). If you are experiencing constant corrections across multiple cylinders you need try a less aggressive map. Timing on Stage 2+ sport should be ~3 in the midrange climbing to ~7 near redline. Stage 2+ Aggresive should be ~5 climbing to ~11 near redline.
    Here's a simple pic of timing correction in action
    Click here to enlarge
    Here's a pic of a good timing curve
    Click here to enlarge

    Load: Requested load is what the car wants to see/what power it wants it to make. Actual load is what "power" output the car is making. Load is largely determined by boost and when graphed the plot for Actual load and boost wil mirror each other. On stage 2+ sport the requested load line should be flat at ~172, on stage 2+ Aggressive it will taper from ~188 at redline to ~160 near redline.
    Here's a pic of stage 2+ sport load
    Click here to enlarge
    Stage 2+ Aggressive
    Click here to enlarge

    TPS: TPS req is what the DME is commanding and Actual is what the throttle blade position is. Requested should be ~99% and Actual should be ~80%
    TPS Actuall
    Click here to enlarge




    These are just examples. Your numbers may vary slightly depending on conditions. The main thing is that all the curves should be smooth without sudden drops or spikes.

    Here's a graph of it all together:
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  2. #2
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    Great post! Sticky this for sure

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Great post! Sticky this for sure
    Thank you sir!!!
    Click here to enlarge
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    This is great, thanks!
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    @jhershorin posted a great introductory article on our blog as well about doing and reviewing datalogs. I'm pasting full content here for discussion purposes...

    Source: http://blog.protuningfreaks.com/2012...ogging-part-1/

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jhershorin
    DATA LOGGING WITH COBB AP – PART 1

    Data logging is an invaluable tool when it comes to maintaining reliability and checking on your modified car. It allows you to know what your car is trying to do (requested values) and what your car is actually doing (actual values). Knowing the concepts is one thing – being able to understand it and utilize it is another.

    The most common question I get in regard to datalogging is people asking me what is useful to record when doing a pull. The good news is that Cobb setup the default logging parameters really well. It has just about everything you would want to see. It seems the confusion then becomes what all the values in that .CSV file actually mean. This is what I am going to cover in today’s blog entry.

    The first thing I do when opening a datalog is find the exact data that represents the WOT run I am looking for. There are a few ways to do this. One way is to look at pedal position to determine at what point you put your foot all the way down. You can simply delete all the rows above that data point. Then go to the end of the run which is often represented by the pedal position no longer being maxed. I usually like to start by looking at a single gear pull. If your log is of a multiple gear pull it may help to isolate just one of the gears and remove all of the other data (rows in excel).

    Now that we have isolated this pull it is time to see if the car is doing a few things.

    -Is the car requesting the values that I would like it to request?

    -Is the car hitting the values that I am requesting?
    -If the answer is yes to both – is the car happy running these values?

    Lets start with the first question. Depending on the modifications you have done you will want to start by determining if the boost curve is appropriate. The car uses “Boost Req Abs” as the name for how much boost the car is requesting. This value is representative of atmospheric pressure (14.7psi) + boost pressure. Basically, if the value shows 31.58 then the car requesting is requesting 16.88psi (31.58-14.7). This boost curve is directly correlated to the load table that is set in your map. The higher the requested load the more boost you are asking the car to make. Our turbos are rather tiny and can handle 18-19psi (FBO vehicles) in the lower to middle RPMs but quickly need to taper as the RPMs rise to remain within their efficiency island. Once you are aware of these requested values you have the answer to the first question. These are what the car is trying to request – is it what you want the car to be requesting? That is up to you.

    Now it is time to take a look at the actual values to see if the car is running what you are requesting of it. First we take a look at the “Boost Mean Abs” column which represents how much boost the car is making. This is the result of the “Boost Req Abs” and is the actual value the car is creating. In the lower to middle RPMs these values should mimic closely what your “Boost Req Abs” is calling for. As your RPMs increase they may begin to fall a bit below the requested values. This is perfectly okay as Cobb setup the maps to run within acceptable ranges of WGDC so that the turbos are not out of their efficiency range. Your actual load typically will not reach the requested load as there are many limiting factors the car is using when determining how much boost to run. Essentially the car will run the least amount of boost to satisfy the load request for the environmental conditions. I can command 190 load but if It is 84* and humid the car may only hit 178 load and satisfy the many correction tables and calculations in determining output. It is normal for the actual values to not hit the requested values. You want to see that it follows the same increasing and decreasing slope of the requested values as the RPMs rise.

    Now that we have covered the first two questions – we move into the fun part. Is my car happy? To determine this we look at a few things. The first thing to consider is environmental factors. Take a look at the “Charge Air Temp” to see if the conditions are reasonable. Heat is an engines worst enemy and can lead to increased knock occurrences and other power reducing events. As such when your boosted values are higher than 100* throughout the pull it is not ideal – but it is Summer so it is rare to see anything less (water and meth will help). When the temps get this hot it makes for “noisier” datalogs. The second thing I like to look at is the “TPS Act” which represents what the throttle blade is actually doing. The throttle plate will typically show a value of 80-81.xx when it is fully open. During a WOT run if you see it close it may be because of slight overboosts. Small changes in the throttle position are nothing to worry about. In fact, small percentage changes will not even be noticed on a dyno plot. If you have massive closures you may want to investigate into why before continuing. If nothing shows up (or minor blips) then you can continue on to the next area I like to check. Make sure the car is running the AFR you would like. Although we have a Direct Injection motor there are negligible gains from leaning it out too much. In high load, high RPM settings I like to see AFR curves in the high 11:1 range. Now we can move on to timing! “Timing” is a great way to increase power while maintaining steady boost levels. By monitoring knock events we can see how “happy” the engine is running the timing curve set in your map. The n54 is VERY sensitive and seeing -3.88 and other occurrences of timing being pulled is okay. What you are looking for is multiple adjacent cylinders pulling large amounts of timing at the same time. If you are getting a few random negative timing values on a few cylinders here and there it is most likely just noise. Take a few logs and see if they are repeatable in the exact same spot or if it just comes and goes randomly. While playing on a dyno and testing out multiple variations of maps we learned that these random timing corrections are not noticeable in the tq curves. Only when the timing corrections are simultaneously occurring on multiple adjacent cylinders is output actually affected. Therefore we are looking for these larger events. In their absence – it usually means the car is pretty “happy”.

    This is a good start to understanding how logging works. Next week I will do an entry on a good way to setup logs in excel for easy viewing/reading. I am a visual person and like to add columns using formulas to see calculated values as well as inserting graphs for the visual representation of what the car is doing.

  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    @jhershorin posted a great introductory article on our blog as well about doing and reviewing datalogs. I'm pasting full content here for discussion purposes...
    The more info/data the better!!!
    Click here to enlarge
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    Nice contribution radar!!

    I have a spreadsheet that single click loads a csv and analyzes timing columns 1-6, if timing in any cell (time vs cylinder) is less than the max timing any of the cylinders it auto formats it yellow. If it's more than -2 it formats it orange, if more than -4 it formats it red. It also greys out lines of data that are less than 80% TPS so you can see throttle closures and pick out WOT easy.

    It's simple and SO useful on the road. Anyone interested in using it? If so I'll clean up the code and attach it here. Screenie of stock mapping, demonstration purposes of course:

    Click here to enlarge

  8. #8
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    While reading through Jake's entry one thing he does differently than I do is that he says he looks almost exclusively at single gear pulls/deletes other data to make it a single gear. I've always thought it has been helpful to see how the car is able to recover from a shift. How fast AFRs can recover, how the timing reacts(I.e. flat lining or not), if there is a throttle closure post shift etc...
    Any thoughts?
    Click here to enlarge
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  9. #9
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    You want this stickied?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You want this stickied?
    Sure
    Click here to enlarge
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    Well then it's stuck
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  12. #12
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    With it being a sticky and all I think it would be a pretty good place for people to post up there logs for review/discussion. I know the guys at PTF offer their review services for free but if people publicly post up their logs and have people can go through and analyse them then people getting used to logging have a good visual to go by.

    For instance, if someone is wondering what boost oscillations are then they can look through here and see where someone has posted up a log showing boost oscillations then they have a visual to go by.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dfv2 Click here to enlarge
    Nice contribution radar!!

    I have a spreadsheet that single click loads a csv and analyzes timing columns 1-6, if timing in any cell (time vs cylinder) is less than the max timing any of the cylinders it auto formats it yellow. If it's more than -2 it formats it orange, if more than -4 it formats it red. It also greys out lines of data that are less than 80% TPS so you can see throttle closures and pick out WOT easy.

    It's simple and SO useful on the road. Anyone interested in using it? If so I'll clean up the code and attach it here. Screenie of stock mapping, demonstration purposes of course:

    http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...mingdrop-1.png
    Hey, that's a great spreadsheet actually, nicely done. One thing I'd do is not color the cells red until timing is being corrected heavily on 3 or more adjacent cylinders by 4* or more. Some noise is acceptable and may just look bad in the log when in practice its just the DME being a good nanny. I know its getting fancy but if there was a way to correlate a bunch of back to back runs and compare them programatically for areas of pulled timing that matched every time that'd be a great tool to use to know in what areas timing may need to be pulled back a bit and then rerun to see the changes.

    For instance, last night I was out with a car on the road and in low load/cruise situation it pulls timing every now and then with 3.x timing on random cylinders. Those low load (at cruise) areas in terms of timing/boost/fuel have never been touched by us and they're stock programming. If it was a WOT pull you'd think its too aggressive and possibly pull timing out which would be a bad idea as you'd lose some very good torque for no good reason. Just a heads up..

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    @Zasquatch had some great logs of boost oscillations and also some logs of the V402 mapping that fixed the oscillations.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @Zasquatch had some great logs of boost oscillations and also some logs of the V402 mapping that fixed the oscillations.
    Tonight/tomorrow I'm going to go through all my logs and some logs on the forums to compile some screens of common issues. Boost leaks, major timing corrections, oscillations, throttle closures etc... and then talk to sticky about letting me edit the original post to include that stuff.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Heres a log i took tonight. Heres an example of a throttle closure from an over-boost scenario. If you follow the TPS Actual line you can see that i am getting some VERY minor throttle closures. This is the DME reacting to the overboost scenario by closing the throttle plate. If these corrections are more severe you will typically feel a jerkiness during acceleration. This is Cobbs latest Stage 2+FMIC AGG V402 map, i just added some timing.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    I just realized how much that graph sucks to read, ill resize and repost when i get back to my laptop.

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    Here's something i put together this morning. Again, corrections/incite from more learned members are more than welcome!!!

    OK, so here are some of the most common issues encountered in Data logs. I've already discussed what these channels are above^ so i'll just be showing what the actuall graphs look like and just the important information. I'll be circling the problems(when applicable) in red.
    Timing Corrections
    This car is running the stage 1 Sport map on 91 ACN fuel. There are timing corrections throughout the whole pull and at times on all 6 cylinders. These corrections are repeated every pull.
    Click here to enlarge
    This is how the timing looks on the same car during the exact same pull with all those corrections.
    Click here to enlarge
    So, what to do about it? Well, That depends on the cause of the corrections. Consistant timing corrections isolated in 1 or 2 cylinders is most likely a result of a mechanical issue. Routine maintenance(plugs, coils, injectors, port cleaning) can usually take care of or greatly reduce coorections caused by this. However, corrections like those above are almost certainly caused by running a tune more aggressive than the fuel will allow. This can either be fixed by running a less aggressive map OR if you happen to be lucky enough to have access to e85 then you can begin experimenting with e85 mixes to eliminate the corrections.
    This is the same car, running the exact same map in similar conditions on a ~80/20 mix of ACN and e85 and the corrections are gone and the tiiming is exactly where the DME wants it.
    Click here to enlarge
    Boost Leak
    A boost leak is, fortunately, very easy to detect. The DME is hyper sensitive to boost leaks and will usually throw a P30FF code. This is not a 100% guarantee that a small leak(or a leak at the right place) will trigger a boost leak code thats why looking at requested and actual load will give you a heads up if you believe you have an issue. This leak will appear as an inability to hit requested loads. This car is running the stage 1+ aggressive map and at times is 50 points below load target and 4+psi below requested boost. The way virtual dyno scales data doesn't show how big the difference between requested and actual really is. That's when paying attention to the actual values becomes important(or use excel for a more visual heads up.)
    Click here to enlarge

    Throttle Closures
    Throttle closures are usually caused by 1 of 2 things. Traction control induced or in response to overboost. The DME will use the throttle plate to trim the boost to requested levels and are a huge concern. If a large overboost is detected it will slam the plate shut. These are the throttle closres that you can feel. Keep in mind that the TMAP sensor in PRE throttle plate so that during the throttle close the boost will spike due to the restriction created in the charge pipe. Whats important is immediately before and after the throttle closure.
    This is an example of a throttle closure trimming the boost a little. TPS actual goes from 81% to 72%.
    Click here to enlarge
    Here is an overboost induced throttle closure. Boost mean overshoots Requested boost by about 1PSi and then the DME reacts by dropping the TPS to ~50%. This spikes the boost during the closure but as soon as the throttle plate opens back up the boost is dropped to just under requested.
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    awefuckingsome!!! best thread ever!!

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    Something I should mention is the process I use when looking at a log. I don't have the mental resources to open a log with all the channels displayed and just look at it all at once. I start with the RPMs so as to provide a frame of reference(shift points mainly, but if you're not sure what gear the log is of then you can compare RPM ramp up to elapsed time.) Then I do pedal position and TPS. If TPS is clean and smooth than more than likely you're not having over boost issues. If TPS drops off first thing to do is make sure the pedal position didn't back off, someimes you may let off the pedal without even realising it. Then look at IATs. High IATs make everything more sensitive and play a large part in timing. Then look at timing corrections. Then look at timing, keeping in mind that timing is based largely on IATs and even though you may not have timing corrections your timing may not be all it can be. But there's not besides meth that you can do about that. Requested load and actual load(IMO) only come into play if you're suspecting a problem. Actual load is pretty much determined by boost and if you have a leak it'll be off(again, P30FF) or if you live at high elevations it won't reach target but it WON'T throw a code in that situation. AFRs with Cobb are pretty much dead nuts unless you have a hardware issue or you're playing with e85. STFTs are about in the same boat as AFRs, they should be good to go unless experimenting with e85 or meth.
    Click here to enlarge
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    This is a log with the Cobb boost oscillations:

    Click here to enlarge

    And here is a log with 4.02 alpha maps (I havn't really taken many logs with 4.02 beta yet):

    Click here to enlarge

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    Wow, extremely helpful post for me rader1, thank you!
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    Great post, thanks!

    I had some trouble extracting the files linked in Zasquatch's post over at Bpost, found his thread here on BB with links that work correctly :

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...t=cobb+grapher

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Zasquatch Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Snertz Click here to enlarge
    Great post, thanks!

    I had some trouble extracting the files linked in Zasquatch's post over at Bpost, found his thread here on BB with links that work correctly :

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...t=cobb+grapher
    I would be cautious as these are older versions. I will update the post with a beta v1.5.

    The problem wasn't with e90post, but with winzip. My new method of compression should work better. The reason I stopped updating the thread here is because I am not able to update the first post even though I am the creator, which makes version control much more difficult.

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    @Zasquatch, great stuff buddy...just tried the 1.4 for OSX, works really well...1.5 doesn't show the button to grab the log but I guess that's a compatibility issue with OSX...i'm running Office 2011 by the way

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