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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@AUTOCouture Click here to enlarge
    I think all vendors have done it at one point or another. I did it at cambertoe, but it was to remove useless trolling from ignorant people trying to point the blame for a problem we created. Hell we are even guilty of it, but we locked a thread because the guy was trying to commit serious insurance fraud through our shop, and when we wouldnt do it, he made a bogus story trying to paint us as a ripoff shop. Yet the E90post minions posted all over Facebook and in some other threads like 'oh look, ACM is trying to hide something'. Typical rumor bull$#@! to feed into the drama.

    Stuff like that I see the reason in doing, but manipulating dynos in order to achieve the most probabilities of sales is old stuff. People dont want fake numbers, just be honest. If high hp isnt the strong point, then focus on its other traits.
    Agreed! At the end of the day, I really believe honesty and being candid will take one much further than trying to manipulate things for a short-term or quick gain. That applies to anything in life.

    On another note, at least some independent parties have been getting similar results as some of the over-estimated dynos out there for the Macht Schnell/EAS dynos. With a lot of data logging and consistency too!

    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...t+Schnell+dyno

    I'm sure this whole dyno debacle won't really take away from their sales, but it would just be great if there could be a mass movement in the BMW community to start rethinking about the ethics of dyno testing.
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
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  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
    Agreed! At the end of the day, I really believe honesty and being candid will take one much further than trying to manipulate things for a short-term or quick gain. That applies to anything in life.

    On another note, at least some independent parties have been getting similar results as some of the over-estimated dynos out there for the Macht Schnell/EAS dynos. With a lot of data logging and consistency too!

    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...t+Schnell+dyno

    I'm sure this whole dyno debacle won't really take away from their sales, but it would just be great if there could be a mass movement in the BMW community to start rethinking about the ethics of dyno testing.

    yeah one of my biggest pitches when I was doing my own thing was that I might not be the cheapest guy on the block, but you know you will never have an issue with it regarding comebacks and botched installs. And to this day I had no comebacks in the 2.5 years I worked at Camber-Toe. Ive fixed a massive amount of other shops works, who I wont name Click here to enlarge

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    EAS knew exactly what they were doing. They have worked with Sal from evolve in the past, and have dynoed tons of M3s, so they know exactly how they behave on the dyno.

    I have no problem with vendors being vague if that is their policy. Look at Dinan - they just release "a graph" for their intake and they really don't explain it or participate in the forums. People still buy their stuff. No indication of where the numbers came from, although they are a lot more reasonable than some of the ones I've seen EAS throw around recently.

    The fact that people have had problems getting their dyno files from EAS and now this crap just goes to show that they were deliberately trying to deceive the community to make their product look better.

    This is actually the first time I've seen this crap on m3post *first hand* vs. through someone else telling me. Gintani got caught manipulating graphs and m3post let the post stay; wonder why EAS has a special deal. Actually I don't care...
    You may want to calm down. You've just brought up 3 other irrelevant vendors in one thread for no reason. I have yet to see you react as such when someone questions the ess graphs, originally and now... What's your angle?

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    You may want to calm down. You've just brought up 3 other irrelevant vendors in one thread for no reason. I have yet to see you react as such when someone questions the ess graphs, originally and now... What's your angle?
    Why do you assume I'm not calm. Currently eating ice cream.

    My comments regarding those vendors are absolutely relevant. The Dinan comment is related to the marketing aspect of dynos. The Gintani comment is relevant to the fact that not all vendors have the "delete/close thread" button on m3post.

    In general I have very little interest in the whole SC, Gintani, ESS, vbox, etc. debates. I just hope people enjoy their cars.

  5. #30
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    nah man, your tone and vocabulary used are an indication of trying to link everyone into this game, and none of them have anything to do with the topic at hand, and also left out the largest offender.

    Either way, its a simple fix, buy the parts, but dont use their dyno. Its California, im sure there are literally hundreds. better yet, more people need to post their own dyno's from third party dyno's. but thats really no good either, that place Alekshop has a fudged dyno as well, boost reads 2 psi high, and some people use a bleeder valve to let pressure out while doing the dyno IF the dyno does in fact have a working boost trace..

    This is why realworld is better than a manipulated machine intended to push sales or lend credability for after-sales customer satisfaction.

    Hence the reason why I go to 1 of 2 non bmw involved dyno shops, in fact they use the dyno for tuning, not marketing. which is the reason why I offer/request anyone local to go them for results. Sadly only one has obliged. Something scares people when the tests are controlled and can be accuratly measured and quantified

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    nah man, your tone and vocabulary used are an indication of trying to link everyone into this game, and none of them have anything to do with the topic at hand, and also left out the largest offender.
    Everything I've stated is factually accurate to the best of my knowledge. I don't know what else to tell you. I don't own any ESS products and after the hissy-fit Roman got into on m3post with Sal and MikeB, I'm sure I won't.

    Either way, its a simple fix, buy the parts, but dont use their dyno. Its California, im sure there are literally hundreds. better yet, more people need to post their own dyno's from third party dyno's. but thats really no good either, that place Alekshop has a fudged dyno as well, boost reads 2 psi high, and some people use a bleeder valve to let pressure out while doing the dyno IF the dyno does in fact have a working boost trace..

    This is why realworld is better than a manipulated machine intended to push sales or lend credability for after-sales customer satisfaction.

    Hence the reason why I go to 1 of 2 non bmw involved dyno shops, in fact they use the dyno for tuning, not marketing. which is the reason why I offer/request anyone local to go them for results. Sadly only one has obliged. Something scares people when the tests are controlled and can be accuratly measured and quantified
    That really is not a "fix" in my opinion. This is about inflating numbers to sell product, not about whether it adds power, or whether it can be shown to add power. Likewise, I also think this thread is about the fact that m3post apparently does not care that their community is being deceived since they, apparently, deleted all evidence of that.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    That really is not a "fix" in my opinion. This is about inflating numbers to sell product, not about whether it adds power, or whether it can be shown to add power. Likewise, I also think this thread is about the fact that m3post apparently does not care that their community is being deceived since they, apparently, deleted all evidence of that.
    we are all well aware of m3/e90posts agenda and the bias, hence this forum.

    The fix is to do independent testing, post that $#@! up, show what it does in the realworld

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    spinning to something faster without correlating ET says nothing about power made Click here to enlarge
    too funny

  9. #34
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    its true Erm

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Just sad that this goes on. No reason for it. Make a quality product and you will have a customer base.

  11. #36
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    LOL @ neg rep.

    Hey TECH. Nice to see you.

    Others have done independent testing with a fair amount of logging. I don't see a need to do it again honestly.

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Others have done independent testing with a fair amount of logging. I don't see a need to do it again honestly.
    care to share, i havent seen any

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    care to share, i havent seen any
    User Kenny Powers IIRC on m3post did it with BT logging assistance from some other members. Not sure what the policy is here on linking to that site; so I didn't...

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    User Kenny Powers IIRC on m3post did it with BT logging assistance from some other members. Not sure what the policy is here on linking to that site; so I didn't...

    ahh, i found it. All makes sense now. Anytime Pencilgeek is involved, I can assure you the results are skewed. I knew there was a hidden agenda for bringing other parties up

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    ahh, i found it. All makes sense now. Anytime Pencilgeek is involved, I can assure you the results are skewed. I knew there was a hidden agenda for bringing other parties up
    LOL.

    I have no agenda. I'm just an honest guy; which is apparently a liability on the internets.

    The funniest thing about this whole thing is that the ESS guys claim that I am an m3post/Gintani insider, and the Gintani/PG-hate camp think I'm with the ESS. You guys crack me up.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    its true Erm
    When you run a 12.0@125 with the 535 kit I'm going to tell you that a FBO 335+meth that ran 11.7@121 is just as fast because we cant say anthing about the power being made from your car because you "spun to something faster" (meanwhile you were never spinning but cutting yourself short by short shifting into second to prevent wheelspin) without a correlating ET Click here to enlarge lol

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Hey TECH. Nice to see you.
    Likewise!

  18. #43
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    Any way to stay on topic?

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge

    The funniest thing about this whole thing is that the ESS guys claim that I am an m3post/Gintani insider, and the Gintani/PG-hate camp think I'm with the ESS.
    lol, i concur that.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THE TECH Click here to enlarge
    Any way to stay on topic?
    Nope not possible as this is BB. If some of the threads posts got moved to OT it would be so much easier to get the facts in most of the threads on BB
    Click here to enlarge



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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ERM324 Click here to enlarge
    When you run a 12.0@125 with the 535 kit I'm going to tell you that a FBO 335+meth that ran 11.7@121 is just as fast
    exactly, i concur. i do not see a 535 kit running 125mph. it has realisticly 480hp peak, with no tq and a flimsy powerband Click here to enlarge

  22. #47
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    ^1SICKM ran an 11.2 and his best trap that day was 125.....its possible, not in this heat though

    your right about the torque though lol

  23. #48
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    and 11.5@119 in better weather and linelock. we'll have an actual baseline soon im sure

  24. #49
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I got banned from M3post because of the posts that rburrman made with the dyno graphs from EAS.

    Really not fair. Just becuase I know him and he got ahold of the data and posted them, I got banned and THE TECH got banned too..

    I have been doing business on M3post for years, I'm seriously amazed by this.

    m3post com forums showthread.php?t=716002

    need to add the periods back in link above..

    Really a shame, I really liked M3post and expected a fair playing ground.
    Last edited by Mike Benvo; 07-09-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  25. #50
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    aren't you a vendor there? if so, then it's hilarious.

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