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  1. #1
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    EAS (European Auto Source) caught manipulating/misleading M3 dynos?

    Ok, this was sent to me anonymously as no doubt it is going to be deleted very shortly where it originated. If it is, that in of itself should raise some eyebrows.

    EAS has a new dynojet and from what I have seen it reads pretty high. They have been claiming big gains with euro software which made me scratch my head. Some questions have been asked though regarding what baseline they use and if they exaggerated the gains for sales. Look, people try to make their dynos look as good as possible as they are a strong selling point but many of us rely on the honesty of the company publishing dynos. ESS has played this dyno game for sales for a long time and it would disappoint me greatly to see EAS engage in similar behavior essentially selling their integrity for dollar bills.

    The evidence here is hard to argue with but anyone should be able to look it over and come to their own conclusion:

    Looks like he was right.

    Instead of using the highest stock baseline, he choose to use one that was clearly underpowered to make the gain look more significant than it really was.

    http://anony.ws/08f

    Difference between run 2 ( the one he used ) and four ( the one he should have used ) is here:

    http://anony.ws/08p

    And for those still in dispute - Download the run files from this particular car, make sure that RPM is at the bottom axis using STD correction, Smoothing 5, and draw your own conclusions:

    https://rapidshare.com/files/3468017...sdynomanip.zip

    You'll need winPEP from the Dynojet website.

    Very misleading IMO.

    Run files are downloadable at http://tinyurl.com/72tfazd
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

  2. #2
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    These are the original graphs posted by Tom@EAS where you can see the baselines chosen:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge

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    Common practice in the tuning world. I try to use the highest of both, or the average of 3 of both.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Common practice in the tuning world. I try to use the highest of both, or the average of 3 of both.
    It is common practice but it needs to stop.

    Highest run should be used right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It is common practice but it needs to stop.

    Highest run should be used right?
    In some cases, No, A forced induction car first run with a stone cold intercooler will yield a spike in unrepeatable results. In both tuned and stock cases. We choose to run them a few times up to temp to get a good repeatable - baseline.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    In some cases, No, A forced induction car first run with a stone cold intercooler will yield a spike in unrepeatable results. In both tuned and stock cases. We choose to run them a few times up to temp to get a good repeatable - baseline.
    But in this particular case where no supercharger is involved do you believe the intention was to mislead and exaggerate?

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    Yes. Usually an M3 takes a few runs to stabilize trims. N/A cars are a different breed.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BrenM3 Click here to enlarge
    Yes. Usually an M3 takes a few runs to stabilize trims. N/A cars are a different breed.
    It's difficult to argue this was not intentional.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Closed on bimmerpost now with no explanation. They also edited it and removed the whole end of the thread.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Closed on bimmerpost now with no explanation. They also edited it and removed the whole end of the thread.
    Hate to say it but I called it.

    Guess that shows everyone what's up. I'm really disappointed with EAS.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Hate to say it but I called it.

    Guess that shows everyone what's up. I'm really disappointed with EAS.
    Very disappointing. Especially because they are making some decent products, etc. There should be no need to massage the data for the extra few HP.

    I posted in the feedback forum asking for an explanation. If there is none or it makes no sense, then I won't be posting there anymore.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Very disappointing. Especially because they are making some decent products, etc. There should be no need to massage the data for the extra few HP.

    I posted in the feedback forum asking for an explanation. If there is none or it makes no sense, then I won't be posting there anymore.
    You won't get an explanation.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    You won't get an explanation.
    I don't think so either. Which is why I'm prepared to stop posting there and put my balls on my Macht Schnell Stage II intake before replacing it.

    I'll post there why I'm leaving, then when they delete it, you can put it up over here.

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    They will no doubt delete it. I won't.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Wow, what a bummer. Even my post was deleted and mine was very fair taking a neutral stance. All I did was post a dyno review from a completely independent and third party individual and dyno facility.

    Sad to see stuff like this get filtered out when us as a community deserve the right to know the truth.

    In any case, the MS Stage 2 Intake and UDPs have proven to show some gains. We all know how frustrating and expensive it can be to pull out every pony possible out of this NA motors, so every bit counts.

    The terrible part about the tuning industry is how people manipulate dyno data or specifically choose very optimistic DynoJet locations to sell their products and deceive potential clients. There has been a lot of buzz in the E46 M3 community, just as there has been with the E90 M3 guys.

    Yet another reason why I enjoy coming to these forums. No BS here. No filter. Real data. Real automotive talk. Real car junkies. No hellaflush stretched tires.
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
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    I thought this was common knowledge? I dont knock EAS for doing it. Every company does it. It sucks because it only leaves 2 options, play the same game somess companiess do, or post lesser numbers.

    I do find it odd that in one thread they are called out for an inflated dyno, and in another other companiess use that spessific dyno to boast how good a spessific kit is. im tempted to buy said kit and show what it really does

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I thought this was common knowledge? I dont knock EAS for doing it. Every company does it. It sucks because it only leaves 2 options, play the same game somess companiess do, or post lesser numbers.

    I do find it odd that in one thread they are called out for an inflated dyno, and in another other companiess use that spessific dyno to boast how good a spessific kit is. im tempted to buy said kit and show what it really does
    Sometimes I feel like it's a losing battle. People have downplayed the gains I made with my Evolve Tune on my E46 M3, especially compared to another competitor. When in reality, said competitor is known to use very optimistic dynos and most people don't really understand how to use a dyno properly. It's said really. At the end of the day, I just keep reminding myself that I have nothing to prove. As long as I am happy with the shape and form my car has taken and that I work with honest individuals, all is good.

    Don't get the VFE kit!!!! You know which one to get Click here to enlarge
    2002 E46 M3 6MT | Jet Black . Black Nappa | My GermanBoost Build Thread
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    lol, I love the VF kit!Its the fastest S/C'd car ive ever rode or driven in.
    10's @129 is display of power being made, and they didnt post a single dyno, spinning to something faster without correlating ET says nothing about power made Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I thought this was common knowledge? I dont knock EAS for doing it. Every company does it. It sucks because it only leaves 2 options, play the same game somess companiess do, or post lesser numbers.
    I figured this was common knowledge in the tuning world. Yes it's a little misleading, but they are trying to stay competitive and sell their product. It's kind of like saying they should only use the worst "after" dyno for their tune, which obviously no company would do. I don't even have an M3, but I don't really see this as anything more than marketing honestly.
    Current: 2012 CTS-V - stock for now
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    I'm not interested in arguing about whether this was marketing or not to be honest.

    I just don't think vendors should be able to have posts deleted like that with no explanation. EAS should have the option of not replying, or replying. They should not be able to delete the questions they don't like.

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    I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did... I really like M3Post but the amount of $#@! that's covered up really makes my stomach churn.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    yea i agree with all you guys. what i have done in all in my reviews i posted my lowest and highest for both na and boost graphs. This way people can see the range of my data, not just Glory runs or trying to get highest delta.
    F10 M5 : ??????
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  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike Benvo Click here to enlarge
    I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did... I really like M3Post but the amount of $#@! that's covered up really makes my stomach churn.
    LOL ya I have been saying this forever...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by akh23456 Click here to enlarge
    yea i agree with all you guys. what i have done in all in my reviews i posted my lowest and highest for both na and boost graphs. This way people can see the range of my data, not just Glory runs or trying to get highest delta.
    EAS knew exactly what they were doing. They have worked with Sal from evolve in the past, and have dynoed tons of M3s, so they know exactly how they behave on the dyno.

    I have no problem with vendors being vague if that is their policy. Look at Dinan - they just release "a graph" for their intake and they really don't explain it or participate in the forums. People still buy their stuff. No indication of where the numbers came from, although they are a lot more reasonable than some of the ones I've seen EAS throw around recently.

    The fact that people have had problems getting their dyno files from EAS and now this crap just goes to show that they were deliberately trying to deceive the community to make their product look better.

    This is actually the first time I've seen this crap on m3post *first hand* vs. through someone else telling me. Gintani got caught manipulating graphs and m3post let the post stay; wonder why EAS has a special deal. Actually I don't care...

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    I think all vendors have done it at one point or another. I did it at cambertoe, but it was to remove useless trolling from ignorant people trying to point the blame for a problem we created. Hell we are even guilty of it, but we locked a thread because the guy was trying to commit serious insurance fraud through our shop, and when we wouldnt do it, he made a bogus story trying to paint us as a ripoff shop. Yet the E90post minions posted all over Facebook and in some other threads like 'oh look, ACM is trying to hide something'. Typical rumor bull$#@! to feed into the drama.

    Stuff like that I see the reason in doing, but manipulating dynos in order to achieve the most probabilities of sales is old stuff. People dont want fake numbers, just be honest. If high hp isnt the strong point, then focus on its other traits.

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