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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    In theory, and as designed by the Constitution yes, but im sure there will be a State "Penalty" for not enforcing it, ie less $ for xyz programs ect.. Same $#@! as always
    nope, government can't hold state funding hostage. That provision was found unconstitutional by Justice Roberts as well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    red
    Sorry many but your understanding of evolutionary theory here is wrong, it is only based on the ability to survive an propagate. In terms of a single organism...the ability to survive to, and, spread your genes, and see these offspring do the same. So like he said, "poor" people are actually far more successful at this...in terms of individuals or economic classes. But it really is a theory (law.) that should be applied to the species as a whole, not socioeconomic groups or even over such small time frames as single generations.

    On that note, anyone ever see the movie Idiocracy? Scary ish.
    Last edited by Forced Air; 07-02-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Only people who win are the insurance companies. Maybe if the legal system was not set up to reward people for accidents you could live without an insurance company.
    I completely agree that insurance (and for that matter basic healthcare) should not be a for profit business.
    Last edited by Forced Air; 07-02-2012 at 11:16 AM.
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  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Sorry many but your understanding of evolutionary theory here is wrong, it is only based on the ability to survive an propagate. In terms of a single organism...the ability to survive to, and, spread your genes, and see these offspring do the same. So like he said, "poor" people are actually far more successful at this...in terms of individuals or economic classes. But it really is a theory (law.) that should be applied to the species as a whole, not socioeconomic groups or even over such small time frames as single generations.

    On that note, anyone ever see the movie Idiocracy? Scary ish.

    Love that movie.


  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shahsk Click here to enlarge
    nope, government can't hold state funding hostage. That provision was found unconstitutional by Justice Roberts as well.
    when did that happen?

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Sorry many but your understanding of evolutionary theory here is wrong, it is only based on the ability to survive an propagate. In terms of a single organism...the ability to survive to, and, spread your genes, and see these offspring do the same. So like he said, "poor" people are actually far more successful at this...in terms of individuals or economic classes. But it really is a theory (law.) that should be applied to the species as a whole, not socioeconomic groups or even over such small time frames as single generations.

    On that note, anyone ever see the movie Idiocracy? Scary ish.
    only successful, not favored, and thats because of the handouts they are given, take away the welfare and foodtsamps and all the do-goodery funded by taxpayers and see how well they reproduce with out sustanence

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    when did that happen?
    When "obamacare" was upheld.

    http://www.ijreview.com/2012/06/9398-why-chief-justice-roberts-made-the-right-long-term-decision-with-obamacare/



    "Finally, he struck down as unconstitutional, the Obama-care idea that the federal government can bully states into complying by yanking their existing medicaid funding. Liberals, through Obama-care, basically said to the states — ‘comply with Obama-care or we will stop existing funding.’ Roberts ruled that is a no-no. If a state takes the money, fine, the Feds can tell the state how to run a program, but if the state refuses money, the federal government can’t penalize the state by yanking other funding. Therefore, a state can decline to participate in Obama-care without penalty. This is obviously a serious problem. Are we going to have 10, 12, 25 states not participating in “national” health-care? Suddenly, it’s not national, is it?"

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    Obamenycare or the Affordable Care Act (ACA) is principally a health insurance coverage act. For a good accessible read on what it covers, look an analysis the Detroit Free Press performed (http://www.freep.com/article/2012062...dable-Care-Act). While coverage for Americans to healthcare is one aspect of the crisis this country faces, the bigger issue is the cost of health care that the ACA minimally addresses.

    A quote from the center for economic policy and research sums up the real problem well " the projections of explosive long-term deficits are entirely dependent on projections of exploding health care costs. If the United States had per person health care costs that were comparable to costs in other wealthy countries (all of whom enjoy comparable or better health outcomes), then we would be looking at long-term budget surpluses not deficits.".

    Amazing that politicians talk about defense spending, social security, social program spending etc., but won't get their asses to work on the 800 pound gorilla in the room preventing long term sustainability of the country, therefore the government.

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    I love the movie Idiocracy.

    Here comes your attorney.
    Fritoooo Pendejooooo!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What are you basing this on?

    How about insurance companies should be non-profit strictly for your protection and you get a % of your money back if you did not need anything from the insurance company?
    I've seen numbers from 1%-5% net profit thrown around on the internet from people in the business. I suppose you should take that with a grain of salt, I have nothing hard to back it up.

    So, non-profit insurance companies? It seems to me that you're asking for the government to administer all insurance in that case. How would you encourage private investment in insurance companies if they are non-profit?

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    only successful, not favored, and thats because of the handouts they are given, take away the welfare and foodtsamps and all the do-goodery funded by taxpayers and see how well they reproduce with out sustanence
    So your saying let people starve to death? Opens up another whole can of worms, but regardless I don't think there is any chance of that happening .
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  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmwm3gt Click here to enlarge
    I love the movie Idiocracy.

    Here comes your attorney.
    Fritoooo Pendejooooo!
    LOL right? Great horror movie.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
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  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andrew20195 Click here to enlarge
    I've seen numbers from 1%-5% net profit thrown around on the internet from people in the business. I suppose you should take that with a grain of salt, I have nothing hard to back it up.

    So, non-profit insurance companies? It seems to me that you're asking for the government to administer all insurance in that case. How would you encourage private investment in insurance companies if they are non-profit?
    The idea would be companies that don't have profits to stock holders as a priority. There are plenty of companies that aren't privately held. You can pay enough to have good employees, management, etc. and still be "non profit" Yes the employees profit as they are payed for there work, but any surplus in the company ofter operating costs is just refunded or used to improve service to customers rather than to pay stock holders.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    So your saying let people starve to death? Opens up another whole can of worms, but regardless I don't think there is any chance of that happening .
    Rather than let people starve to death, allow this problem to take care of itself without government intervention. Society can decide whether to allow the starvation (and a litany of other social issues) to continue. Everyone knows the celebrities that clamor on about how government needs to take care of the poor... Imagine if each of them gave 10% of their wealth to legitimate charities that addressed these needs as an example for others to follow. Or volunteered in their communities. A dollar given to local charity has a much greater impact than a dollar taken by the Feds and redistributed via x bureaucrats.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by andrew20195 Click here to enlarge
    I've seen numbers from 1%-5% net profit thrown around on the internet from people in the business. I suppose you should take that with a grain of salt, I have nothing hard to back it up.

    So, non-profit insurance companies? It seems to me that you're asking for the government to administer all insurance in that case. How would you encourage private investment in insurance companies if they are non-profit?
    Charity is non-profit currently and seems to have plenty of investment.

    My idea would be that the insurance company is capped at a certain amount of people with all finances displayed publicly. So it does not take on more than it can handle. Whatever the amount of money it takes to begin it can be either from outside investors (who get a % return of excess funds to encourage investment, but the company still is not for profit and this is still less than whatever it costs for ppl to pay monthly/quarterly whatever) or from actual individuals. You can pony up X amount to be in the program if you have X amount of finances which is returned to you if nothing happens. Essentially, it would be more difficult to get accepted but if you are in you have the potential to get all your money back. No doubt we would get complaints this would cater to the rich but I do not see why people don't understand they cater to the super ridiculously wealthy by paying insurance in the first place with how the companies clean up from funds from the entire population and do not return them.
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  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    Rather than let people starve to death, allow this problem to take care of itself without government intervention. Society can decide whether to allow the starvation (and a litany of other social issues) to continue. Everyone knows the celebrities that clamor on about how government needs to take care of the poor... Imagine if each of them gave 10% of their wealth to legitimate charities that addressed these needs as an example for others to follow. Or volunteered in their communities. A dollar given to local charity has a much greater impact than a dollar taken by the Feds and redistributed via x bureaucrats.
    Let's pass a law that celebrities need to give up 10% of their wealth. I just solved world hunger.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Let's pass a law that celebrities need to give up 10% of their wealth. I just solved world hunger.
    I don't think the ghost of Ronald Reagan would appreciate that very much ...Click here to enlarge

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    It's true. All these celebs saying the poor need to be helped out but noooooooo don't do it with my money, use someone else's money. I have a private campaign fundraiser with obutthole tonight that will cost me $40,000 a plate....I can't afford to give up more to help that poor man over there.

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    I don't support it one bit. There is ruling in there too that the govt has the right to view your own insurance policy and determine wether you need to drop it and sign up with their plan?


    With everyone on the govt back, we will end up just like Canada. Good luck waiting for that heart valve replacement when youre 65. You will be put on a waiting list and when your number is called you get to go in and get your operation.

    But what if they can't operate for 8 months? And at the rate you are going you will only last 3 months?
    Oh well, I'm sorry, better start calling your loved ones and tell them you will be 6ft under soon.

    There is a guy who's on the E28 forum who is watching one of his best friends die because of the govt 'free healthcare'. Sure it's free to the public, but if you are outside the Preferred age you have to wait or you get denied. Someone who's 19 might need that valve too, and we have to be fair...you lived long enough, that 19 yr old needs his shot at life. That is the mentality of socialist society and free healthcare. Obama was raised on this whole bull$#@! fairness thing.....oh someone has more money/cars/house than me...that's not fair, you should give me some. Like hell I will....I busted my ass and came from nothing! And I'm doin just fine for myself! My parents are divorced but you don't see me complaining or pointing the blame at them cuse 'I couldn't do good cuse they weren't good parents.'. I took the initiative to change my group of friends, and hang out with people that actually had goals in life, not just to sit around smoke pot and gEt drunk. Guess what? I took notes, busted my ass and got 3 jobs, paid off all my debt and set goals for myself.

    So many people complain 'oh the system is holdin me down, I gotta sell this rock to make money'. No you $#@!in don't, you could get a job at McDs or Burger King but 'nah bro that's wack'. Your ego is so big it's beneath you to work at such a place. Working near the ghetto in my past I've seen it all....livin in a shack but damn that sure is a real nice 2011 BMW 750 you got parked out front. Gold chains and 1000 bucks worth of clothes on you (which I have never understood why) but usin your baby mamas food stamps to buy food. Damn I'm hungry but $#@! I just copped them new Jordan's, I'm so fly and swagged out. The media plays this into people's minds that materialistic things are what make you rich, when in reality it's the opposite. I learned the hard way that you need to fall on your own sword sometimes in order to better yourself. I stayed humble and never got mad at someone for having more than me, I just tried to figure out a way to get to where they were at Click here to enlarge

    Bmwm3gt, aren't you from Europe? That would explain the socialist leaning ways you debate...the govt runs everything over there.


    Oh and by the way, Obama, his whole family and all of congress are exempt from this obummercare.

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    You know what really would help? Crushing all these unions that bleed this country dry with overinflated pensions.

    Thats one of the main reasons alone why NY state is so poor. Union pensions are so drastically overinflated that the state can't keep up with paying for them. That would drop the tolls on the bridges here, reduce taxes and make businesses more competitive for employees.

    Here, in case you didn't know, your pension is only averaged from the first and last 3 years at work. So you could do some good overtime when you first get hired, then sit on your ass for another 17 years, then work retarded amount of overtime to the point where your OT is almost equal to your standard salary, and then you retire. Suddenly your pension after only 20 years of work is more than your regular salary while you were at work!

  21. #71
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    I'm not really familiar with this, but how much do you guys have to pay for this type of tax?
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  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
    I'm not really familiar with this, but how much do you guys have to pay for this type of tax?
    Americans don't pay for anything. Not even the government. We borrow. We borrow, and we borrow, and we borrow...
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  23. #73
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Matt@AUTOCouture Click here to enlarge
    With everyone on the govt back, we will end up just like Canada. Good luck waiting for that heart valve replacement when youre 65. You will be put on a waiting list and when your number is called you get to go in and get your operation.

    But what if they can't operate for 8 months? And at the rate you are going you will only last 3 months?
    Oh well, I'm sorry, better start calling your loved ones and tell them you will be 6ft under soon.

    There is a guy who's on the E28 forum who is watching one of his best friends die because of the govt 'free healthcare'. Sure it's free to the public, but if you are outside the Preferred age you have to wait or you get denied. Someone who's 19 might need that valve too, and we have to be fair...you lived long enough, that 19 yr old needs his shot at life. That is the mentality of socialist society and free healthcare.
    With all due respect, please let me know when this 'person' actually dies. I've heard enough anecdotal evidence in my life that Canadian healthcare is the terrible with people dying left and right to become numb to it. Medicine is given based on need, not want, in Canada. Being close to dying will put you at the front of the line always. If he exists and he's chosen for whatever reason to go with and wait for a biological valve instead of mechanical at his age(and condition from your post) I'm not sure what to say.

    For reference:
    Cardiac surgery wait times in Ontario: http://www.ccn.on.ca/ccn_public/uplo...e_May_2012.pdf
    Cardiac surgery wait times in ATL Canada: http://www.gov.ns.ca/health/waittime...e.asp?pid=1060
    My wait time for appendicitis(burst): 0 mins, straight to a hospital bed, straight to triage nurse then floor doctor with surgery sometime shortly after.
    My wait time for concussion/broken shoulder: 30-40 mins to a bed, instant xray, 35 addl mins waiting for MRI.

    The Canadian system isn't perfect but I'm sick and $#@!ing tired of hearing people with no actual experience with it hammering on and on about it because of either anecdotal evidence or your news provides such a balanced and non-lobbyist point of view of it.

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    Greece has Healthcare for all as well and if you dont have a pocket full of cash to grease the doctors and nurses you will end up dying on a gurney in the hallway .
    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DAGREEKNYC Click here to enlarge
    Greece has Healthcare for all as well and if you dont have a pocket full of cash to grease the doctors and nurses you will end up dying on a gurney in the hallway .
    Correct same with all the countries over there. People in the USA don't get it.
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