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  1. #276
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    I'm curious why the fuel tables have a last column of load at 220 ... it will never get to that load, so it seems like there's no reason to adjust these values, right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jeff75225 Click here to enlarge
    I'm curious why the fuel tables have a last column of load at 220 ... it will never get to that load, so it seems like there's no reason to adjust these values, right?
    Upgraded turbos can get to these load cells, but no reason to touch them when running stockers.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  3. #278
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    I am new to COBB & ATR & Tuning so just wanted to get your thoughts, i am FBO (except for Green Panel Filter for lower IAT in Florida) + walbro 450 LPFP, been using cobb s2+ aggressive, very nice, but hitting 18.8 PSI on stockers...so i compared all the map tables in ATR..... saw that Stage 2+ Sport is about 16 PSI midrange and a solid 172 load target thru 6000 RPM, where i usually shift anyway.
    i am going the e-tune route as soon as i get new grippier PSS tires but in the meatime,
    my thoughts are to run lower boost and up the timing just a bit, so instead of aggressive map, load a Stage 2+ Sport map, with the load target of 172 (which will give me the lower boost) and use the aggessive timing numbers in the sport timing map.

    does this make sense?

  4. #279
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    another silly question, i noticed that COBB race map and E30 timing, fuel and load tables are identical...so whats the difference?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by neilvosko Click here to enlarge
    another silly question, i noticed that COBB race map and E30 timing, fuel and load tables are identical...so whats the difference?

    Fuel, timing maps are differnet and the throttle profile is also slighly different.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Here is what I managed to do for my RBs using Cobb ATR. It's a 3-4-5-6 run. Work of art Click here to enlarge This is a map for our 100RON premium fuel (94-95 US octane).

    PS: If anyone wants my maps I will send it to you, just PM me.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  7. #282
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    thats clean and impressive. did you up the timing 1 point at a time?

  8. #283
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    @cstavaru, whats with the timing flatline at the onset of boost?
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  9. #284
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by neilvosko Click here to enlarge
    I am new to COBB & ATR & Tuning so just wanted to get your thoughts, i am FBO (except for Green Panel Filter for lower IAT in Florida) + walbro 450 LPFP, been using cobb s2+ aggressive, very nice, but hitting 18.8 PSI on stockers...so i compared all the map tables in ATR..... saw that Stage 2+ Sport is about 16 PSI midrange and a solid 172 load target thru 6000 RPM, where i usually shift anyway.i am going the e-tune route as soon as i get new grippier PSS tires but in the meatime, my thoughts are to run lower boost and up the timing just a bit, so instead of aggressive map, load a Stage 2+ Sport map, with the load target of 172 (which will give me the lower boost) and use the aggessive timing numbers in the sport timing map. does this make sense?
    You could go that route, you could also just take the stage 2+ sport map and start adding timing until you see some corrections and then back it off until the corrections disappear. Also, if you're not a fan of the huge midrange torque, you can back the load targets off evenmore and run a ~15psi-12psi curve and run a more aggressive timing curve. Go easier on the turbos and help combat CATs.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by neilvosko Click here to enlarge
    another silly question, i noticed that COBB race map and E30 timing, fuel and load tables are identical...so whats the difference?
    It's been a while since I looked at the two maps, but I think the only difference is that the e30 map fuel scalar is adjusted for the ethanol content.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  10. #285
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    Hi Rader,

    so basically open the aggressive stage 2+ map and keep the timing, but lower the load target tables to the values in stage 2+ sport or so ( 188 in aggressive) down to 172 in sport.
    because sport runs 16 psi mid tapering to 12 redline vs 18.8 psi aggressive down to 12 at redline????


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    You could go that route, you could also just take the stage 2+ sport map and start adding timing until you see some corrections and then back it off until the corrections disappear. Also, if you're not a fan of the huge midrange torque, you can back the load targets off evenmore and run a ~15psi-12psi curve and run a more aggressive timing curve. Go easier on the turbos and help combat CATs.



    It's been a while since I looked at the two maps, but I think the only difference is that the e30 map fuel scalar is adjusted for the ethanol content.

  11. #286
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    @rader1, makes sense now, can even take the e30 map (even more advanced timing) and drop the load targets down to stage 2+ sport levels to lower the boost, do a 50/50 e85 mix to ensure proper octane which should lower the boost but keep the advance high.

    i like that idea. this should hold me over until i get new tires and will get the PTF etune then.

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    so i did some math
    stage 2+ drive load tables = stock + 20%
    stage 2+sport load tables = Drive +10%
    stage 2+aggrs load tables = Sport +10%

    probably same with timing just more time to calculate

  13. #288
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by neilvosko Click here to enlarge
    thats clean and impressive. did you up the timing 1 point at a time?
    More like starting from the Stg 2 Aggressive pump gas map and reduced timing until no more timing drops on any cylinder.
    The amount reduced depends on how bad a timing drop was.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    @cstavaru, whats with the timing flatline at the onset of boost?
    It's not a flatline, it's that this is the maximum timing possible at that RPM and load to avoid timing corrections on all cylinders (for my fuel). Car pulls very hard in that area. In the other gears graph that RPM is not in range and that timing area does not appear.

  14. #289
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by neilvosko Click here to enlarge
    @rader1 , makes sense now, can even take the e30 map (even more advanced timing) and drop the load targets down to stage 2+ sport levels to lower the boost, do a 50/50 e85 mix to ensure proper octane which should lower the boost but keep the advance high.

    i like that idea. this should hold me over until i get new tires and will get the PTF etune then.
    Yeah, that should work just fine. Keep in mind that when you lower load targets you are also changing the target timing. However, in your case it shouldn't change much because the 155 and 180 load columns are similar. Once you get started you can fine tune the timing to the car.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  15. #290
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    It's not a flatline, it's that this is the maximum timing possible at that RPM and load to avoid timing corrections on all cylinders (for my fuel). Car pulls very hard in that area. In the other gears graph that RPM is not in range and that timing area does not appear.

    18psi and 0 timing up to 5k.... sounds like a very safe and extremely conservative map. its about time you turn your meth kit back on lol.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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  16. #291
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    18psi and 0 timing up to 5k.... sounds like a very safe and extremely conservative map. its about time you turn your meth kit back on lol.
    +1
    As far as boost control goes that's a damn impressive log but running 0 timing advance until 5K rpms isn't pretty.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  17. #292
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    Took this datalog today, trying to fix the region in the red square. I want it to hold boost a little longer; I have the map tapering off pretty hard after 6k, but it doesn't hold boost between 5k-6k either.

    Should I remove some wgdc in that rpm region, and re-datalog? From 5000-6000rpm, my MAF Req. (WGDC) (g/s) ranges from 347 (5000) to 416 (6000). Both of these are off the top cell on the WDGC Base table, so I "assume" I should only edit the final column. How do I determine the proper "factor" ?


    Click here to enlarge


    Here's what my WGDC Base table looks like:

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DallasBoosted; 03-21-2013 at 12:09 PM.

  18. #293
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    And the above is not just because I want to make more boost and hold power (obviously that would be good) but I don't want to get 30FF codes from it running under req boost like that constantly at the track.

  19. #294
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    You'll want to ADD some DC to the base table if you're constantly under boost.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  20. #295
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    You'll want to ADD some DC to the base table if you're constantly under boost.
    Based on the MAF Req WGDC (g/s) being between 347 and 416 between 5000-6000rpm, I'm assuming I should add a point or two (how much?) to the final column of the table, right?

    How do I know which one to edit down the column? Or do you edit them all?

    Click here to enlarge

  21. #296
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    You'll need to log "Boost setpoint factor" and that will give you the "factor" value you're looking for. More than likely it will be ~2 and above.
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    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  22. #297
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    You'll need to log "Boost setpoint factor" and that will give you the "factor" value you're looking for. More than likely it will be ~2 and above.
    If I look at my actual datalog though, at 5500rpm my WGDC Base is like 30.65, the WGDC after PID is like 35-37 (so that means it added some?) and then the actual WGDC (Bank 1) is like 50-52.

    Help me understand the tables... because 30.65 doesn't appear anywhere in WGDC (base) table. So are those values multiplied by something? Then we have the adder and ceiling tables.. what do those do?

    I'll log the boost setpoint factor and figure that out, but I'm trying to understand the system also.

    Thanks for the help!

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    you can also increase the WG adder to increase PID ceiling. 17psi requested is very aggressive in the top... may what to drop this to around 16psi. I've seen logs of 16psi at 6k, but my car can't do it comfortably in my conditions.

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    Okay I'll try tapering the load target from 190 at 5000 to 177 at 6000, that will lower the req boost undoubtedly and maybe those lines will be closer to each other, so I'll run less of a chance of getting 30FF. I guess there's no point in trying to get it to maintain 16-17psi to 6000rpm?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
    Took this datalog today, trying to fix the region in the red square. I want it to hold boost a little longer; I have the map tapering off pretty hard after 6k, but it doesn't hold boost between 5k-6k either.

    Should I remove some wgdc in that rpm region, and re-datalog? From 5000-6000rpm, my MAF Req. (WGDC) (g/s) ranges from 347 (5000) to 416 (6000). Both of these are off the top cell on the WDGC Base table, so I "assume" I should only edit the final column. How do I determine the proper "factor" ?


    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../QYHzvjZ-1.png


    Here's what my WGDC Base table looks like:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../LsMEpK7-1.png
    The WGDC Base table does not depend on RPM. You need to log the "Boost Setpoint Factor" and "MAF Req. (WGDC)" and increase the values in the table where you have lower boost. Typically the last 2 columns on the last 2 rows in the lower right corner. Add like 4-5 points for 1psi. However you need to also log "WGDC (Bank 1)" and "WGDC (Bank 2)" to see if you really have more room for boost. You can also alter the WGDC I-factor table to try to force the PID system stay closer to the target (this is the last resort, if you get there I will help you but you need to post a log first).

    A cold air intake (as opposed to DCI) and a bigger intercooler with less pressure drop could help you run more boost but these must be carefully chosen.

    However I suppose you know that the turbos are way out of their efficiency range even as you run them now, so the engine backpressure is huge, not to speak about the turbo life and IATs (if you don't run meth).

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