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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
    Well the explanation I got from an EX Porsche motorsport engineer is that Liquid to air is good for a while but once the liquid heats up and you cant cool it off fast enough then the IC becomes useless but Air to Air can cool much faster and would be more consistent. Dunno how to argue with that but I have no reason not believe this But I'm sure there is more to it then that also. Like IC efficiency yada yada.
    I suppose once the liquid is heated up it would take more energy to cool down but liquid cools faster than air as it can move more heat more quickly.

    This is the reason liquid cooled computers can be over-clocked more than air cooled.

  2. #27
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    Air to water intercoolers are better for short bursts. Water has a specific heat capacity many times that of air, waters density is about 62.4 lbm/ft3 and air is about 0.07 lbm/ft3, almost 1000 times less dense. This has a huge effect on heat transfer. Water is much better at moving heat, but once it gets hot, it doesnt like to change temperature.

    This means that initially an air to water intercooler is much more effective, but once it has absorbed a lot of that thermal energy it will not want to change temperature (and we call this heat soak).

    Since an air/air IC is always exposed to new ambient air, although the cooling effectiveness from ambient is much less than air/water, they can overcome heatsoak quicker and are generally more popular among daily driven cars.

    Thats not to say you cant work with a water/air, in a manner where the water circuit has a radiator to shed heat from the water, you are now combating the tendency for water to want to remain hot.

    There are more and more stock cars out there that come with air/water ICs, but do know they come with some type of radiator to shed the heat.

    Hope that explains it.
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    Click here to enlarge

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Air to water intercoolers are better for short bursts. Water has a specific heat capacity many times that of air, waters density is about 62.4 lbm/ft3 and air is about 0.07 lbm/ft3, almost 1000 times less dense. This has a huge effect on heat transfer. Water is much better at moving heat, but once it gets hot, it doesnt like to change temperature.

    This means that initially an air to water intercooler is much more effective, but once it has absorbed a lot of that thermal energy it will not want to change temperature (and we call this heat soak).

    Since an air/air IC is always exposed to new ambient air, although the cooling effectiveness from ambient is much less than air/water, they can overcome heatsoak quicker and are generally more popular among daily driven cars.

    Thats not to say you cant work with a water/air, in a manner where the water circuit has a radiator to shed heat from the water, you are now combating the tendency for water to want to remain hot.

    There are more and more stock cars out there that come with air/water ICs, but do know they come with some type of radiator to shed the heat.

    Hope that explains it.
    This is exactly correct, nice job.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge

    Another Graph I found.

  5. #30
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    nice find
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Monster135 Click here to enlarge
    Who VF? They released their kit. My friend has it on his E90 and there are a couple of other cars running their system. I got a chance to take a ride in his car last week. The car pulled hard with all four of us in it. Hopefully no issues like they had with the E46s.
    The VF kit has not been released to the public, both VF e90s are currently using pre production units.

  7. #32
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    hmmmm maybe once my warranty is up I might know where to turn to for some boost...

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tom @ eas Click here to enlarge
    The VF kit has not been released to the public, both VF e90s are currently using pre production units.
    Thank you for the added information.

  9. #34
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    I have to say, it is the best looking kit. Props to AA.

    Now they just need to stop selling those ADV boat anchors.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    I have to say, it is the best looking kit. Props to AA.

    Now they just need to stop selling those ADV boat anchors.
    I don't get why they are involved with ADV at all.

  11. #36
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    I wanna see the IC set up ...

  12. #37
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    AA looks like they have built another great kit! I am not so sure if i would buy it though cos im not a fan of HKS blowers even though i dont see anything wrong with them. I would rather go Gintani or ESS. Click here to enlarge

    The AA Mani is gorgeous and so is the Gintani and ESS ones Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

  13. #38
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Anyone notice the HP rating of that HKS supercharger? It's only 250-500!

    http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=3767
    09 Alpine White E92 M-DCT / ESS VT2 Supercharger w/ NITROUS / Borla Race Exhaust
    10.87 @ 131 mph in the 1/4 Mile
    60-130 MPH in 6.23 secs (Nitrous)
    60-130 MPH in 6.87 secs (Boost only @ 7.5psi)

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mikewads Click here to enlarge
    Anyone notice the HP rating of that HKS supercharger? It's only 250-500!

    http://www.hksusa.com/info/?id=3767
    That is a general figure but more than enough for the S65.

    What is really freaking interesting is the max rpm of 100,000 Click here to enlarge

  15. #40
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    Meaning reliability.
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    That is a general figure but more than enough for the S65.

    What is really freaking interesting is the max rpm of 100,000 Click here to enlarge
    I don't know man. I tend to believe that supercharger is made for smaller 4 and 6 cylinder motors. Which is the majority of HKS customers.

    The general figure listed for my V3 blower is 775hp
    09 Alpine White E92 M-DCT / ESS VT2 Supercharger w/ NITROUS / Borla Race Exhaust
    10.87 @ 131 mph in the 1/4 Mile
    60-130 MPH in 6.23 secs (Nitrous)
    60-130 MPH in 6.87 secs (Boost only @ 7.5psi)

  17. #42
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    Well, I find it hard to believe that Active would choose and undersized blower but I'll do some research and see what I can come up with as you have me intrigued.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mikewads Click here to enlarge
    I don't know man. I tend to believe that supercharger is made for smaller 4 and 6 cylinder motors. Which is the majority of HKS customers.

    The general figure listed for my V3 blower is 775hp
    OK, one thing I just found was that AA uses this blower on the E36, E46, and now the E9X. So, part of the choice was likely that they already had a large supply of these blowers and it kept cost down.

    Am I concerned it is a little undersized? Not sure yet, but I don't think it will support the HP level of a T-trim or even the V3's.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Well, I find it hard to believe that Active would choose and undersized blower but I'll do some research and see what I can come up with as you have me intrigued.
    I thought they had 2 versions of the HKS blower
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GG///M3 Click here to enlarge
    I thought they had 2 versions of the HKS blower
    They have a few versions but they use this one across the 3 platforms.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Air to water intercoolers are better for short bursts. Water has a specific heat capacity many times that of air, waters density is about 62.4 lbm/ft3 and air is about 0.07 lbm/ft3, almost 1000 times less dense. This has a huge effect on heat transfer. Water is much better at moving heat, but once it gets hot, it doesnt like to change temperature.

    This means that initially an air to water intercooler is much more effective, but once it has absorbed a lot of that thermal energy it will not want to change temperature (and we call this heat soak).

    Since an air/air IC is always exposed to new ambient air, although the cooling effectiveness from ambient is much less than air/water, they can overcome heatsoak quicker and are generally more popular among daily driven cars.

    Thats not to say you cant work with a water/air, in a manner where the water circuit has a radiator to shed heat from the water, you are now combating the tendency for water to want to remain hot.

    There are more and more stock cars out there that come with air/water ICs, but do know they come with some type of radiator to shed the heat.

    Hope that explains it.
    i always liked water-air as you can have a seperate resiviour and pack it with ice, and rewire to keep it running when the car is off Click here to enlarge

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i always liked water-air as you can have a seperate resiviour and pack it with ice, and rewire to keep it running when the car is off Click here to enlarge
    I've heard this before. Do you literally put ice into the reservoir or put a pack of ice around the outside of the reservoir? Are there different fluids that would help with heat soak. For example with bikes, we use water wetter at the track.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gixxer_kidd Click here to enlarge
    I've heard this before. Do you literally put ice into the reservoir or put a pack of ice around the outside of the reservoir? Are there different fluids that would help with heat soak. For example with bikes, we use water wetter at the track.
    usually you have to modify or purchase a different tank and replace. one that has a larger mouth. you have to put a switch inline so you can run the pump while the car is off.
    on the bottom there should be a valve to drain the coolant/mix fluid. once you flush the fluid you can fill with distilled water. when you get to the track or wherever your going, drain about 80% of the water and actually pack icecubes into the tank. run the pump and the water will flow around cooling things off. with enough time you can repeat this process again as the ice will be melted within a few minutes. this way by the time you get to the staging lights (if at a track) you still have ice in there for your run.

    artcile on the subject:

    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...reservoir.html

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    usually you have to modify or purchase a different tank and replace. one that has a larger mouth. you have to put a switch inline so you can run the pump while the car is off.
    on the bottom there should be a valve to drain the coolant/mix fluid. once you flush the fluid you can fill with distilled water. when you get to the track or wherever your going, drain about 80% of the water and actually pack icecubes into the tank. run the pump and the water will flow around cooling things off. with enough time you can repeat this process again as the ice will be melted within a few minutes. this way by the time you get to the staging lights (if at a track) you still have ice in there for your run.

    artcile on the subject:

    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...reservoir.html

    good stuff! thanks for sharing.

  25. #50
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    Usually for drag racing or grudge matches on the street you will fill up your air/water intercooler with ice and you will see huge IAT drops.

    It wont last very long though, the ice melts, duh.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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