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  1. #26
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    I have been a bmw fan all my life, I currently work for a bmw dealership in a small village about 50 minutes west of Münich..I am one of the only bmw enthusiasts there. Something I find telling is not long ago we had an Audi R8 that came in, our whole building was out there looking at it. BMW really has no real sports cars anymore outside of the 1M and the New M3 but that thing is a little fat in my opinion..BMW has been making high revving monsters since well the 3.0 and 3.5CSLs.While I do not mind turbos they will never be as precise as an NA motor.. The new M5 is far to big and boring, there is im sorry nothing exciting about it.. while I did not agree with the looks of the last M5, that S85 is something else a real screamer, that motor still lives in my dreams..I will always own an M3, but will probably stop at the e46M3. When I get the chance Im moving onto my first love Porsche.

  2. #27
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    I think I'm the only one that sees it differently. The M3 had a 6 cylinder engine used most of the time so it's more like them going back to their "roots" than anything else. Although I don't really care since BMW has nothing to get excited over anytime soon from an enthusiasts perspective. It's all about the game of how can we give them less but charge more every single year.
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  3. #28
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    E9x m3's will be for sale everywhere when this new m comes out. Who's to say it won't be moldable like a gtr? Imagine putting a jb4 on the new m and adding 80 whp to a car that already has 450 hp? Lol I bet a tune only new m will walk all these supercharged s65's. I'm excited in the direction BMW is going, turbo motors ftw
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    E9x m3's will be for sale everywhere when this new m comes out. Who's to say it won't be moldable like a gtr? Imagine putting a jb4 on the new m and adding 80 whp to a car that already has 450 hp? Lol I bet a tune only new m will walk all these supercharged s65's. I'm excited in the direction BMW is going, turbo motors ftw
    No one is $#@!ing about the turbos. Were just $#@!ing that M is taking base model production BMW engines out of 335s and throwing some cute little bits on them and calling them M motors.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  5. #30
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    No one is certain it's a n54, n55 motor, although it seems likely. Btw, what do you think BMW did with the e30 m3? That motor is based on a motor in the regular 3 series, same with the next gen e36 US version m3.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    No one is certain it's a n54, n55 motor, although it seems likely. Btw, what do you think BMW did with the e30 m3? That motor is based on a motor in the regular 3 series, same with the next gen e36 US version m3.
    That's what they did in the beginning, then they started to make their own engines.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  7. #32
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    Really only with the s65 though....
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  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Really only with the s65 though....
    and the S85
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  9. #34
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    I meant in the m3....but yes your right.
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  10. #35
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    Anyone know how drastically different the S54 is from the M54?
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Btw, what do you think BMW did with the e30 m3? That motor is based on a motor in the regular 3 series
    wrong

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Anyone know how drastically different the S54 is from the M54?
    different crank, block, head, pistons, rods, head, cams, vanos (IIRC)...actually i can't think of anything that's the same.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    wrong
    See e30 m3.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3

    "Based on the 1986 model year E30 3-Series, the first M3 was introduced with a 2.3*L I4 S14B23 engine (also known as S14). The engine design was based on various BMW parts: basic block layout from the M10 4-cylinder (found in the 2002 and 320 series) overbored and reinforced to similar specifications of the BMW M88 inline-6. The valve train and head architecture from BMW's M1 and, later, M6 inline-6-cylinder was adopted for aggressive breathing."
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  14. #39
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    "As the S85 was BMW's first V10 engine, it was given a new series in the nomenclature. While V8 engines are designated by "60s" and V12 engines labeled as "70s", the S85 was badged with an "80" despite it having fewer cylinders than the "70"-series engines.
    The S85 spawned a related S65 V8 engine for the 2008 BMW M3. Although the "65" designation is apparently out of order compared to the other V8 engines (which follow "62" and "63" sequentially), the S65 was badged such since its design is largely derived from the S85 minus two cylinders, and not related to BMW's other V8s.
    Unlike other BMW engines, there are no mass market "M" or "N" versions of the S85 and S65 and nor is there any shared parts, as these engines are used exclusively in BMW M performance vehicles.[3]"
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  15. #40
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    This is actually a better site than wiki...

    http://www.bmwdrives.com/bmw-m-history.php
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jäger Click here to enlarge
    I have been a bmw fan all my life, I currently work for a bmw dealership in a small village about 50 minutes west of Münich..I am one of the only bmw enthusiasts there. Something I find telling is not long ago we had an Audi R8 that came in, our whole building was out there looking at it. BMW really has no real sports cars anymore outside of the 1M and the New M3 but that thing is a little fat in my opinion..BMW has been making high revving monsters since well the 3.0 and 3.5CSLs.While I do not mind turbos they will never be as precise as an NA motor.. The new M5 is far to big and boring, there is im sorry nothing exciting about it.. while I did not agree with the looks of the last M5, that S85 is something else a real screamer, that motor still lives in my dreams..I will always own an M3, but will probably stop at the e46M3. When I get the chance Im moving onto my first love Porsche.
    yup, gimme a good stout NA platform and ill choose the snails thank you very much.
    theres plenty of old platforms that will be fun to work with in the future but im with you...there won't be very many new platforms to play with!

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Scourge82 Click here to enlarge
    I stand corrected, I read that Audi was switching but didn't realize that Merc was too. Going smaller with turbos is what everyone is doing nowadays. Just hoping the M division will make their own engine and not go down the 1M route.
    the hearts have already been broken. i wouldn't put it passed them to shove another non s motor into yet another M. Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Anyone know how drastically different the S54 is from the M54?
    " The S54 engine used in the E46 M3 is the ultimate and final evolution of the iron-block S50 inline-6 that powered the European-spec versions of the E36 M3. Though derived from the 3.2-liter S50 B32 unit, the S54 features the following enhancements:

    Increased cylinder bore to 87mm (from 86.1mm) for a new total displacement of 3,246cc
    Modified camshafts
    High pressure Double VANOS continuously variable valve timing system with faster operation at high rpm
    Increased compression to 11.5:1 (from 11.3:1)
    Advanced BMW/Siemens MSS 54 engine management control
    Electronic throttle activation with two M Dynamic Driving Control response modes
    Finger-type rocker arms for reduced reciprocating mass and friction<
    One-piece aluminum head casting for lighter weight<
    Scavenging oil pump to maintain pressure during heavy cornering. "

    " Though based on the regular production M50 24-valve inline-six used in many BMW models of the era, the European version of the S50 B30 engine has a number of unique components developed by BMW Motorsport (later renamed BMW M). These include:

    Increased bore (to 86mm) and stroke (to 85.8mm) for a total of 2990cc
    Increased compression to 10.8:1
    Ported and polished cylinder head
    Individual throttle bodies for each cylinder
    Heavy-duty valve springs
    Continuously-variable VANOS valve timing on the intake stroke
    Bosch Motronic M3.3 engine management control
    Dual mass flywheel
    Free-flowing intake and exhaust systems
    In this guise, the S50 B30 produces 286 hp (DIN) at 7,000 rpm and 236 lb/ft of torque at 3,600 rpm. These engines are equipped with dual catalysts for all markets. The European and U.S. versions of the S50 B30 powerplant share similar cast iron engine blocks and have an identical capacity of 2990cc. However, the U.S. version (known as the S50 B30 USA) retains the less complex head design and two-stage (non-stepless)VANOS valve timing system of the normal M50 engine upon which it is based. It also does without the European-spec model's individual throttle plates for each cylinder. Compression is slightly lower at 10.5:1. One benefit of the U.S. version is that it retains hydraulic lifters, thus periodic valve adjustments are not needed "

    - source is http://www.bmwdrives.com/bmw-m-history.php
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  19. #44
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    i think a inline 6 TT is better then a v8 in every way! now if that v8 was TT then omg
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forcefed Click here to enlarge
    I think that its great that they are switching to FI. I guess people who dont like fuel efficiency, power, and modable cars should beware Click here to enlarge
    Weird, never saw M cars having problems with mods before. If you mean cheap mods, sure.

    I think it would be great if we had the choice instead of it being made for us. You know, like what Porsche is able to offer?

    Unless you think the turbo is a better car than the GT3? Because I don't. I kind of like instant response, flat curves, and high revs.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kueks29 Click here to enlarge
    Rejoice not too early

    For one has AG-man not to look at the M-GmbH, on the other hand does not provide the basis for the V6.
    Builds namely on the S65 and not on the S63Tü ...

    Alone proves that the info is not very realistic. Because he would have inside knowledge, then he would know the basis of the V6.
    Furthermore, it was just missed by all employees of the M-GmbH, a muzzle. They had to sign, that the mention of the letter "R" (in English I) or "V" will cost the job.
    and ... only 5 days after this action arises out an AG-proclaimed funny guy:
    "Yes, it will be an I6 in the M3 ..."??

    Those who believe a thing like that??
    How do you know it will be a V? I agree that makes the most sense but how do you know?

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    On a side note, M3 + V8 never went well together. Yes the S65 is lighter than the S52, engine response is great yabba yabba. But BMW should have kept the V8 for the M5.

    I suspect the move to put the S65 in the E9X M3 was dictated by the fact that the last gen M5 had a V10 and BMW needed a V8 somewhere in the lineup. So they sacrified the M3 spirit and put 2 extra cylinders in the M3.
    What are you talking about? Didn't go well together how?

    The S65 is lighter than the S54. It makes much more power. It allows them to race competitively in ALMS as they were running a V8 with the E46 and it was fine.

    The M3 started with a 4 cylinder, did a 6 not make sense for it? Your point makes no sense.

    The M3 got a V8 for several reasons, read this, educate yourself: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...ower-potential

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Gotta disagree. Mercedes AMG is switching from 6.2 NA to 5.5 liter forced injection, in the S5 Audi moved from 4.2 V8 to 3.0 SC V6. Downsizing is the norm right now Click here to enlarge

    But the next M3 will outperform current gen M3 by a large margin. Turbo = lots of torque which the S65 lacks badly. Peak HP will also increase. The big questions are firstly if BMW can keep the weight down and, secondly, what they will do to offer good engine response of the new FI engines.
    The M3 doesn't lack torque and it's a car about horsepower with revs not torque down low. A 4.0 liter V8 doesn't lack torque and certainly not with the M3's gearing.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    The S65 is inefficient? It's always been an inline 6 in the M series? We should put a non S engine in an M series? Oh, and the S65 is "torqueless". The latest M3 has more rear wheel torque than a Z06 up until 3rd gear - it can achieve this through gearing and an insane redline.
    Some of these people have no idea what they are talking about. Finally a good post.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, no one compares a stock N54 to an S65. Take a tuned N54 to allow for a more even comparison. And DRIVE a tuned N54 to feel what 600NM feel like at as low as 2k rpm.

    Efficiency of the S65?? Around 16 liters/100km in normal driving. I average 12 liters on my car. And I certainly don't drive like a grandma. With gas prices going through the roof, fuel efficiency becomes real important even for sports cars.

    Yes, engine response of the S-engines is great. That's what BMW needs to improve on with the FI engines, can't deny that.
    You didn't understand what he was saying.

    A tuned N54 still doesn't have the M3's gearing. Gas prices? Who cares? These are M cars not Civics.

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