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Thread: RB vs ASR gen 2

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    RB vs ASR gen 2

    So I'm following a thread on e90 about a guy installing ASR turbos on his 335xi, which is awesome and I'm excited to see his results. Where I'm confused is where he says ASR is claiming 600whp for upgraded twins on their "gen2"? I had thought all upgraded twins were kind of limited on what could be done, as there is only so much to work with, but 600whp on meth + race gas is intriguing if it retains similar torque.

    From the post (two different users):
    "The gen2 upgrade also retains the gen1 turbine wheel but instead of a cast compressor wheel you get a billet one. As the OP explained, blade length was increased just over 6mm's due to a smaller hub diameter (due to being billet) and they also modified the inducer/exducer. This will be good for an estimated 50+wheel. Time will tell obviously but abid has told me on multiple occasions that he expects 600 (maybe even more) wheel on race+meth."

    "...ASR also explained that typically increasing a/r ratio increases lag, but since their turbine wheel flows so efficiently they mathematically chose the correct a/r to match turbine speed & flow. From what I've seen of the RB's they do not do this process. It looks like they weld a v-band flange to accept their larger CHRA and cut the manifold for the larger turbine wheel, but that's all. Given the fact that ASR's turbine side of their manifold is modified to a larger a/r ratio and their turbine wheel is bigger, that would explain a lot as to why their turbos maintain full boost and power to the rev limiter as compared to others."

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    Interesting. Do the ASR's come with updated actuators. One of the big selling points of RB's (to me at least) would be updated actuators.
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    Comparisons are odious

    but I bet by rb is just as powerful if someone is able to get all the power
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    I'll send a technical retort later. If sticky approves. But the bottom line is discussion is pointless. Abid is a daydreamer, pipedreamer, who should start answering his phone so his customers don't need to call me for tech support on ASR Turbos. And for $7k at that... Lol. I've spoke to numerous would be or has been ASR customers, and the only takers usually get a very large discount ($4k-4.5k purchase price). He still has never even upgraded the internal wastegates, just tries to use an actuator as a bandaid (which his last design was horrific). In fact that OP on E90 still has the 6mm style in his pics.

    Those guys posting tech info are words composed by Abid himself.

    He's close now to completion, it'll be interesting to see it break a bunch of records.

    Rob

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    So I'm following a thread on e90 about a guy installing ASR turbos on his 335xi, which is awesome and I'm excited to see his results. Where I'm confused is where he says ASR is claiming 600whp for upgraded twins on their "gen2"? I had thought all upgraded twins were kind of limited on what could be done, as there is only so much to work with, but 600whp on meth + race gas is intriguing if it retains similar torque.

    From the post (two different users):
    "The gen2 upgrade also retains the gen1 turbine wheel but instead of a cast compressor wheel you get a billet one. As the OP explained, blade length was increased just over 6mm's due to a smaller hub diameter (due to being billet) and they also modified the inducer/exducer. This will be good for an estimated 50+wheel. Time will tell obviously but abid has told me on multiple occasions that he expects 600 (maybe even more) wheel on race+meth."

    "...ASR also explained that typically increasing a/r ratio increases lag, but since their turbine wheel flows so efficiently they mathematically chose the correct a/r to match turbine speed & flow. From what I've seen of the RB's they do not do this process. It looks like they weld a v-band flange to accept their larger CHRA and cut the manifold for the larger turbine wheel, but that's all. Given the fact that ASR's turbine side of their manifold is modified to a larger a/r ratio and their turbine wheel is bigger, that would explain a lot as to why their turbos maintain full boost and power to the rev limiter as compared to others."
    I dont think there has been a single customer ASR dyno published, I am assuming its because they dont deliver (as the RBs proven over and over).

    And 5mm in the center of the compressor (where speed is the lowest) does it really equal to 50whp?

    I know he is a competitor but what is @Rob@RB feedback on 600whp?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I dont think there has been a single customer ASR dyno published

    I thought Lord Voldermort (aka Shiv) had ASR turbos at one point, no?
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    The pictures look good. In for dyno results on stage 2. If they ever publish them Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    So I'm following a thread on e90 about a guy installing ASR turbos on his 335xi, which is awesome and I'm excited to see his results. Where I'm confused is where he says ASR is claiming 600whp for upgraded twins on their "gen2"? I had thought all upgraded twins were kind of limited on what could be done, as there is only so much to work with, but 600whp on meth + race gas is intriguing if it retains similar torque.

    From the post (two different users):
    "The gen2 upgrade also retains the gen1 turbine wheel but instead of a cast compressor wheel you get a billet one. As the OP explained, blade length was increased just over 6mm's due to a smaller hub diameter (due to being billet) and they also modified the inducer/exducer. This will be good for an estimated 50+wheel. Time will tell obviously but abid has told me on multiple occasions that he expects 600 (maybe even more) wheel on race+meth."

    "...ASR also explained that typically increasing a/r ratio increases lag, but since their turbine wheel flows so efficiently they mathematically chose the correct a/r to match turbine speed & flow. From what I've seen of the RB's they do not do this process. It looks like they weld a v-band flange to accept their larger CHRA and cut the manifold for the larger turbine wheel, but that's all. Given the fact that ASR's turbine side of their manifold is modified to a larger a/r ratio and their turbine wheel is bigger, that would explain a lot as to why their turbos maintain full boost and power to the rev limiter as compared to others."
    Hah, the notorious ASR Click here to enlarge No customer has agreed to post ASR turbo dynos for several years, so if this guy posts dynos, I'm sure he is Abid himself Click here to enlarge At least the text is typical Abid Click here to enlarge

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    I think the OP has it wrong on which turbos that guy has on the other forum.

    I read he has the GEN1 ver2 that comes with the oil and water lines, and the GEN2 are still in productin.

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    Do a search on ASR here and you will quickly cross them off your list.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I dont think there has been a single customer ASR dyno published, I am assuming its because they dont deliver (as the RBs proven over and over).

    And 5mm in the center of the compressor (where speed is the lowest) does it really equal to 50whp?

    I know he is a competitor but what is @Rob@RB feedback on 600whp?
    I think we had a dyno here somewhere, I'm not going to go dig for it though or do anything to promote ASR until large outstanding amounts owed to our members are refunded:http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...SR-Engineering

    Also, talk to @George Smooth Abid still owes him money from an exhaust that was never delivered. Just stay away, this person does not deserve our business.

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    Why ASR was removed as a vendor from BimmerBoost: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ed-as-a-vendor

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    Why even bother? Rob stands behind his product and is much cheaper to boot. Dealing with Rob was a great experience.

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    I don't want to bash ASR personally as I've never even spoken to them let alone dealt with them, but I will have to say, RBs, the power they provide, quality and countless customer/independent dynos and Rob's beyond exceptional customer service are top notch and truly hard to beat...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    I'll send a technical retort later.
    Thanks Rob, as always I appreciate your deep knowledge on the topic. 600whp is a bold claim for twins, but as I dig more into ASR it seems like a bit of a pipe dream. I guess as you say, we'll see if/when the gen 2 is completed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I know he is a competitor but what is @Rob@RB feedback on 600whp?
    This is mostly what I didn't understand, I had never heard of anyone claiming anything like 600whp on twins for the N54. Now I'm understanding a bit more Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by farbmw Click here to enlarge
    I think the OP has it wrong on which turbos that guy has on the other forum.
    No I understand he has the gen 1 with the water/oil lines, was mostly curious on the gen 2 and how anyone could claim 600whp was possible.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why ASR was removed as a vendor from BimmerBoost: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ed-as-a-vendor
    Click here to enlarge WHOA!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Why even bother? Rob stands behind his product and is much cheaper to boot. Dealing with Rob was a great experience.
    If I upgrade the turbo(s) on my car, it will be with Rob or a custom single should a manifold ever come available and Terry wants to tune it. I was just confused about someone claiming 600whp on twins, needless to say after reading more about ASR I have my answer.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I don't want to bash ASR personally as I've never even spoken to them let alone dealt with them, but I will have to say, RBs, the power they provide, quality and countless customer/independent dynos and Rob's beyond exceptional customer service are top notch and truly hard to beat...
    No small wonder why people go with RBs, sounds like ASR let the dust settle a bit and is now trying to get back in the game, hoping people like me that don't have knowledge of them will give them a shot. Now I really feel bad for the 335xi guy on e90post that just had these put in, I sure hope it works out OK for him, but jeez what a history ASR has...

    So in the standing mile, 180mph, does anyone know if Abid was running nitrous? I found some posts where he trashes on cars running nitrous being 30mph behind him in the mile? It sure doesn't take nitrous to hit 150mph in the mile, so that got a laugh out of me, shoot a stock 335i might be able to do 150mph in the mile Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Those guys posting tech info are words composed by Abid himself.
    Rob
    Exactly, direct words for marketing through a customer who had not completed the install at the time. Let the customer speak for the product after install. I hope the guy gets some good results with his stage 1, but the 600whp claims for stage 2 seem a little far fetched with all we know about the breathing through the original supporting plumbing.

    The things mentioned on the stage 2 seem marginal at best when talking about the size of these turbos, but they do add to the ASR marketing points and profit margin. I'm just hoping this guy isn't being used as a marketing proxy, so other people end up with the same troubles mentioned on the thread sticky posted.

    I would love to see a retort by you on this forum. I sure don't trust a single set of glory dyno numbers from ASR that they seem to be clinging to for marketing.
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    I'm sure rob could send us a center section upgrade for cheap if these stage 2 ASRs make power. Not holding my breath though.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ShrtBus Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Gen 2?

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    From the thread on e90 gen2 aren't done yet so I take it those are the same as the OP in that thread.

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    Forge actuators? There goes the stealth factor. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Forge actuators? There goes the stealth factor. Click here to enlarge
    Somewhere on n54tech there is a thread on Rob testing of different actuators, think the stock ones came out on top Click here to enlarge
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    2 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Holy hell...my fanboy alarm is going off, but then I read the bold part, there is no way this is Abid, right??? Wow at hypocrisy in the underlined areas...

    Originally Posted by alr335xi
    "The fact of the matter is that the wastegate flapper has never rattled or failed on any of ASR's turbo upgrades nor will they ever. The rattling comes from the incorrect tension from the stock actuator during vacuum to boost transition. If the flapper is the problem, how come non of ASR's turbo upgrades have wastegate rattle issues? To make matters worse you constantly see RB and his fan base trying every method they can to make false claims about ASR's product just to promote their own, pretty childish and unprofessional if you ask me. RB even went as far as stating that Shiv was having problems tuning ASR's turbos with stock actuators, so they decided to make an actuator upgrade to mask the problem, which is a complete made up and fabricated lie. The fact is RB doesn't have the funding or the knowledge to to do things the correct way, so they bad mouth others to promote that what they're doing is the best method since they don't have a leg to stand on. They say we charge too much, but yet they are paying over $3k for turbos that cost $150-$200 per turbo that are 20 year old technology from a guy that works out of his garage or basement with no pone number or store front, go figure. He doesn't even offer a 1 year warranty like ASR does, no one in the industry offers any warranty on turbo upgrades like they do. Also, why do more than half of RB's customers complain about their turbos smoking which is documented all over the Internet? These are the guys that will never understand no matter how many facts you put in their face."

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    It seems that it does not take much to set off that non-paying vendor, or vendor proxy over there. I just don't think they can harm RB's great reputation, it's a losing argument.
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    So, we are wasting time again on ASR's stuff, when its been years, and not a single customer dyno, a history of lying/cheating/ blatant riping off of customers?

    Im sorry, werent dyno's promised last year, by more than 1 person, and that never came around?

    Im sorry, weren't there "secret upgrades" happening months ago, that never made even thready-worthy results, let alone a marketing campaign?

    Im sorry, has anyone posted a positive review of ANY asr products?

    The results speak for themselves.

    However, I do see whats about to happen.

    Shiv will push these turbos to 22-24 psi, in the same manner he is pushing his single turbo, with meth as the fueling bandaid, and show a 550-570hp dyno.. same that I have been saying is capable of RB's (regardless if its in or out of effifiency for either set) push the RBs

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