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  1. #1
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    BB Interview with SSP Regarding DCT modification and comparisons to the GTR GR6 Trans

    Click here to enlarge

    BimmerBoost: Tell me about SSP's experience with dual clutch transmissions and why SSP got into this market?

    SSP: To make a long story short, we found a niche that no one else was doing. We researched and researched and surrounded ourselves with knowledgeable people who really know this area. We have a desire to do it as the manufacturers won't give owners the information and the parts. Dealerships will just tell you to get a whole new tranny for about $15k. It should be a crime to sell the whole transmission instead of the parts. Basically, we provide something no one else does for a much better price. There are no parts available and no information on fixing these transmissions so that the Manufacturers can keep the profit for themselves but this is going to change soon.

    BimmerBoost: What torque capacity are you able to take the GTR to?

    SSP: Right now, the GTR is often seeing over 750 pound feet of torque. This is limited due to the tuning. We have 1000 hp clutch packs right now. Those are for cars making almost 800 pound-feet. The problem with the GTR is it just makes so much damn torque, stupid torque. Everything we have thrown at the GTR our clutch packs have held. We had one guy burn a set up but his car was not tuned correctly. It all came down to tuning. I got him a new set, paid for shipping overnight, he got a new tune, and he was tickled pink.

    BimmerBoost: What instantly struck you when you opened up the BMW Getrag unit vs. the Nissan GTR GR6 Borg Warner unit?

    SSP: There was a lot of similarity between the Borg Warner and Getrag clutch packs and the clutch discs were similar. The technology is all really close, someone has to be sharing something between the two companies. The BMW unit more resembles the DSG units used in Audi cars. It is very similar to that along with the Porsche PDK.

    BimmerBoost: Do you believe the power holding potential of both is about the same?

    SSP: It is tough to say. Everything is VERY heavy duty in the BMW Getrag unit. The BMW unit is way stronger than the DSG for example. The BMW will get to around the same point as the GTR unit. It is very hard to say as the GTR was supposed to handle half of what it is handling and it is handling 860+ whp right now. The BMW Getrag clutch discs are a little larger than the Nissan GTR discs.

    BimmerBoost: You mentioned the GR6 is set up better for upshifts than the M3 DCT but the M3 DCT is set up better for downshifts, is this correct and why?

    SSP: I'm going off what has been said about the DCT lag. The GTR is instantly in the next gear. The Borg Warner has better response. We are talking milliseconds here though. The GTR engagement is like night and day though, no hesitation at all. I think the reason for this is partially software and partially hardware as the BMW hesitates. Now, with the GTR we fixed the clutch play in it. The BMW has more clutch play and we need to shim it at 3 mm. Once we shim it, we hope it will fix the DCT lag. So it is 50-50 software and hardware.

    BimmerBoost: There has been a big issue with shift lag in the DCT M3's. It has been largely assumed this was software but it seems you have discovered some reasons for why this is a hardware problem.

    SSP: You don't build an expensive car without having some control. The software recall can only do so much. They upped the line pressure, changed the shift points, and other minor parameters. It comes down to it being cheaper to simply change the software and up the line pressure to increase clamping force as much as possible instead of doing a hardware recall. The software can really only basically raise the line pressure a bit and that is it. The rest is in the hardware.

    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    I learned a few things from this interview. Namely, the BMW DCT is stronger than most people give it credit for and it is really built well with SSP considering it heavier duty on the inside than the Borg Warner unit in the GTR. The clutch discs are also slightly larger so it should be able to handle just as much torque as the GTR.

    The DCT's trans fluid is not exactly the best as mine was in bad shape when they drained it being basically burnt. This is obviously partially my fault due to pushing the DCT so hard but I would be concerned about BMW's claim that the fluid is for the life of the tranny. My feeling is that BMW just wants to keep their costs down like they do with oil changes keeping the interval as far apart as possible. Fortunately, aftermarket fluid is already available.

    Another thing, the factory DCT oil filter is pretty bad. SSP is working on a replacement for this as well which can replaced fairly easily with the transmission still in the car. This will be something those that do track days or race will want.

    The DCT lag is the other interesting thing discussed. Everyone assumed it was just software but the play in the clutch basket seems to be a factor in the response as well. Just as SSP stated, software changes can only do so much. They can up the pressure in the line forcing the clutches to clamp harder/earlier but there is a limitation here. BMW just saw this as their most cost effective solution rather than having to open up every DCT transmission and shim the clutch basket. Also, this would have been embarrassing for Getrag so they probably got together and discussed the cheapest and easiest way to handle it.

    The most important thing to gather from all of this is that we won't be dependent on dealers for our DCT needs and will be able to work on these transmissions and change the parts without the blessing of BMW and without a huge bill from the dealer.


    Here are a couple other things SSP is working on that are interesting for those with big power going through a DCT. What leads to failure often is parts twisting due to the torque. SSP is currently working on a 6061 aluminum billet case for the GTR transmission which will prevent it from twisting under the stress. It will weigh about double, but will be worth it.

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    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  2. #2
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    Nice JOB on the interview
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    Awesome job Joseph, SSP is doing some fantastic stuff, this will give us DCT guys a great option for upgrades, THANK YOU for this!
    08 E92 M3 - DCT
    Bolt Ons - Best ET 11.88 Best Trap Speed 119.8 MPH
    60-130 MPH (3 shifts) 10.71s
    Gintani Stage 2+ Supercharger 60-130MPH (3 shifts) 7.06s
    11.45 @ 131.6 MPH
    579WHP @9.3psi

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    Great interview/write up. Glad to see a company giving options for you guys.

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    I could have told you all about this info if you would have just asked me bro.







    I keed. Good write up dude.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DLSJ5 Click here to enlarge
    Awesome job Joseph, SSP is doing some fantastic stuff, this will give us DCT guys a great option for upgrades, THANK YOU for this!
    We have a DSG SSP set-up installed yesterday with the SSP tranny oil too.

    all can say is that it makes a hell of a difference.

    the Golf have a built motor and GT2871 turbos, oil cooler , tranny oil cooler, intercooler ... basically the works.

    I think STEVE will install some more SSP set-ups real soon
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    We have a DSG SSP set-up installed yesterday with the SSP tranny oil too.

    all can say is that it makes a hell of a difference.

    the Golf have a built motor and GT2871 turbos, oil cooler , tranny oil cooler, intercooler ... basically the works.

    I think STEVE will install some more SSP set-ups real soon
    Any details on that car? What is done to that Golf?

    I'm really wondering how big of a difference the oil itself makes.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Any details on that car? What is done to that Golf?

    I'm really wondering how big of a difference the oil itself makes.
    Well basically the car is set at the VF-RSS kit with some tweaks.
    original turbo comes in a GT2871R spec. Now its a GT2886R so it has a bigger exhaust housing.
    the car also runs a full 3inch exhaust with forged low compression pistons (73mm) and rod.
    Forge intercooler which also pigpacks the stock intercooler so there is 2 on the car.
    custom made oil cooler
    custom made DSG cooler
    GIAC DSG software
    ignition spark amp.
    cold NGK spark pluges
    uprated intank fuel pump
    Schrick cams

    I think that is all for the engine part.

    so now he adds the SSP clutch pack and transmission oil

    He is one happy camper that is for sure.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    Well basically the car is set at the VF-RSS kit with some tweaks.
    original turbo comes in a GT2871R spec. Now its a GT2886R so it has a bigger exhaust housing.
    the car also runs a full 3inch exhaust with forged low compression pistons (73mm) and rod.
    Forge intercooler which also pigpacks the stock intercooler so there is 2 on the car.
    custom made oil cooler
    custom made DSG cooler
    GIAC DSG software
    ignition spark amp.
    cold NGK spark pluges
    uprated intank fuel pump
    Schrick cams

    I think that is all for the engine part.

    so now he adds the SSP clutch pack and transmission oil

    He is one happy camper that is for sure.
    Great stuff, thanks.

    What was it like before the SSP clutch packs and oil?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Great stuff, thanks.

    What was it like before the SSP clutch packs and oil?
    1st of the all I was there for the full install. The clutch discs has to be pre-soaked.
    after that the its very straight forward the SSP disc replaces the stock disc. I did have a past experience with HPA DSG upgrade and it was a mess.
    the clutch had to be sent to BC , Canada and they put the clutch together, the main difference with these 2 companies is that HPA adds more discs instead of making the original replacements stronger.

    but all in all the car pulls much harder shifts faster(you can hear it from the exhaust notes) and crisp too

    enough it Joseph
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  11. #11
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge

    enough it Joseph
    Not sure what you mean here?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not sure what you mean here?
    sorry I was on the phone and typing at the same time.

    I was trying to say... enjoy your new transmission set up.
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

  13. #13
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by EUGENE-Taiwan Click here to enlarge
    sorry I was on the phone and typing at the same time.

    I was trying to say... enjoy your new transmission set up.
    Haha, thanks man, I thought you meant that's enough questions for a second. Sometimes I ask too many things and people get frustrated.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Haha, thanks man, I thought you meant that's enough questions for a second. Sometimes I ask too many things and people get frustrated.
    no man its cool
    Current: 964 WB, 993, Panamera Turbo

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    Thanks for the interview SSP and Sticky and thatnks for educating us on the DCT box Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Quality info and another great contribution to the knowledge base.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SSDD Click here to enlarge
    Quality info and another great contribution to the knowledge base.
    We have a knowledge base?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Apologies. I just meant to this generation of BMW's on the whole.
    Click here to enlarge

  19. #19
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SSDD Click here to enlarge
    Apologies. I just meant to this generation of BMW's on the whole.
    I was just poking fun at a comment somewhere else that we don't have any technical information, you were right one.
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    You know i wonder if they have a better oil for the SMG boxes
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

  21. #21
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports Click here to enlarge
    You know i wonder if they have a better oil for the SMG boxes
    Might be a good idea to ask but I don't believe it will be as large of impact in the SMG as with the DCT.
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    Cool Bro, Please ask them when u speak to them about your Gearbox.
    Click here to enlarge



    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports Click here to enlarge
    Cool Bro, Please ask them when u speak to them about your Gearbox.
    You got it Click here to enlarge
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