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  1. #26
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    Great info dzenno, thanks for sharing !

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    Very nice!

    You are almost getting me convinced to buy the damn BMS OCC. Almost. LOL Click here to enlarge

    I will vote for sending your head to VAC to get reworked. This will be of major advantage when and if you decide to go single turbo.

    As for the coolant mixed with oil, check your thermostat housing gasket. Those are known to deteriorate rapidly and cause leaks.
    From all the things I've lost,
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  3. #28
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    Water pump and thermostat were replaced maybe 15000km ago..
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Funny thing is so far, the mix of posts here is just like me going back and forth on what to do with it...all over the place basically, upgrade everything, don't touch anything, just port the head, do everything so i can copy Click here to enlarge
    I'm in that camp, awesome info as always dz, much appreciated!

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    Nice write-up. I think you should wait and piece together a single kit, Shiv stated the head flows well and VAC hasnt posted any results yet. Sometimes the best move is not to move at all.

  6. #31
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    Nice Dzenno, looking forward to what you do next. You sir are a true N54 community leader, always willing to share you projects and give technical insights for everyone's benefit.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by redlineryder Click here to enlarge
    Nice write-up. I think you should wait and piece together a single kit, Shiv stated the head flows well and VAC hasnt posted any results yet. Sometimes the best move is not to move at all.
    It seems like head could use some work though, because Shiv had to ramp from 16psi to 22.5psi as the motor revved out to keep torque flat. Not saying that is the only factor either.

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Water pump and thermostat were replaced maybe 15000km ago..

    My apologies, I meant the oil thermostat housing instead of the normal thermostat. I have no idea what I was thinking.
    From all the things I've lost,
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  9. #34
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    If a single is you goal then start upgrading. Yank the rods and pistons, get different HG to drop compression slightly, do the head work, upgrade springs/valves and rev that bith out to 8k. If you did all this to look at it, then you have alot of spare time. lol

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    My apologies, I meant the oil thermostat housing instead of the normal thermostat. I have no idea what I was thinking.
    That was replaced 25,000km ago Click here to enlarge typical 100,000km gasket job on this car it seems

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    If a single is you goal then start upgrading. Yank the rods and pistons, get different HG to drop compression slightly, do the head work, upgrade springs/valves and rev that bith out to 8k. If you did all this to look at it, then you have alot of spare time. lol
    Yes a single is a goal but not the kind kicking around right now. It wasn't just to look at it Click here to enlarge well, I'm lying, it was 50/50 to look at it
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #36
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    would ported intake help the turbos to boost ?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  12. #37
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    Who is doing the work on this head?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Funny thing is so far, the mix of posts here is just like me going back and forth on what to do with it...all over the place basically, upgrade everything, don't touch anything, just port the head, do everything so i can copy Click here to enlarge
    I'm with that Click here to enlarge

    Srsly, I would at least throw some forged CP pistons with a bit lower compression ( la Alpina) in. But then, I don't know which components would need to be upgraded next, to increase reliability and withdraw more power. The community lacks well documented N54 builds! Click here to enlarge

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    At the very least, I'd polish up the ports. Any pics of the valve faces or cylinders & sleeves? Mine were pretty black...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    At the very least, I'd polish up the ports.
    Absolutely.

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    Polish the intake ports won't really do anything. It can actually be advantageous to leave them "bumpy", especially in port injection cars. The exhaust ports can be polished to mirror finish without issue.

    The biggest changes are going to be from porting, bigger/lighter valves, the cutting near the valve seat, running lighter valve-train parts, better valve springs and possibly switching to solid lifters if you can deal with the maintenance.

    Don't really know what the bottom end can take at the moment, but a built head would DEFINITELY be beneficial, especially with something like Shiv's kit.

  17. #42
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    I don't think polishing would do anything, possibly hurt performance in this case. Reading up on some cylinder head work stuff over the past few days I've gathered that in FI the surfaces at the ports should actually be done in a non-smooth finish (as if finished with a coarse sand paper). If you actually look at the OEM intake ports you'll notice they're not smooth either. The idea has to do with the way air behaves when under pressure. You can think of it as a thick liquid moving heavily through the pipes. It likes to stick to things in its path. The non smooth surface on the ports makes for fine air pockets that air goes in. With air in those pockets, additional air volume moves over the top much easier and faster increasing port velocity. Obviously a of physics there at play on how to actually optimize it but that's about what happens in a nutshell.

    @SlicktopTTZ , thanks for the advice. I don't think I'd be changing out to solid lifters at this time. Pistons/rods/bearings/springs/seals all make sense but we'll see.

    I pulled one of the intake valves/springs out last night to have a look. They seem to already have been cut nicely at the seat and also seem to be heat treated at the bottom. Comparing to some performance valves online just visually these seem to have some good quality to them BUT I have zero experience in determining any of this stuff.

    One of the main reasons I'm doing any of this is to learn quite a bit along the way. That's the reason I'm also not rushing into it and want to gather info/data and good reasons for changing an OEM part for an aftermarket one while having a decent understanding of the OEM pitfalls/benefits and possibly outcomes. I'm definitely not looking to just go in there and start to randomly replace parts for no good reason.
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    Nice so I guess no over sized rings?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    would ported intake help the turbos to boost ?
    Larger intake ports will give higher cylinder pressure (more power) under boost. But it will give less power and less response at very low boost and low RPM's.

    It is quite common that a good porting includes makeing the runners smaller in some areas and larger in other areas to improve power and response over a wide RPM range. And as other have stated, a good seat and valve job is important.

    Bottom line is that porting is generally no near as important on turbo engine as for N/A where the cylinder pressure is directly dependent in how the intake and exhaust runners, airbox and headers are tuned. Instead of porting the intake you can as well just increase boost to achieve the same result as long as the power level is not extreme. Porting is probably not needed until you have hit the boost roof by some reason, i.e. squeezed the last PSI out of the turbos within it's effective range.

    The practical limit for streetable N54's is how much air the actual turbo can supply and how much power the N54 can take rather than if the intake runners are ported or not. Just my 2C.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by farbmw Click here to enlarge
    Nice so I guess no over sized rings?
    Which over sized rings exactly and why?


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by R1000K3 Click here to enlarge
    Larger intake ports will give higher cylinder pressure (more power) under boost. But it will give less power and less response at very low boost and low RPM's.

    It is quite common that a good porting includes makeing the runners smaller in some areas and larger in other areas to improve power and response over a wide RPM range. And as other have stated, a good seat and valve job is important.

    Bottom line is that porting is generally no near as important on turbo engine as for N/A where the cylinder pressure is directly dependent in how the intake and exhaust runners, airbox and headers are tuned. Instead of porting the intake you can as well just increase boost to achieve the same result as long as the power level is not extreme. Porting is probably not needed until you have hit the boost roof by some reason, i.e. squeezed the last PSI out of the turbos within it's effective range.

    The practical limit for streetable N54's is how much air the actual turbo can supply and how much power the N54 can take rather than if the intake runners are ported or not. Just my 2C.
    With Shiv's single it is already fairly obvious "something" is up as the torque is dropping with boost that is flat across from 4 to 7+k rpm. Now, given procede is still running stock VANOS configuration, maybe that is the limiting factor as well. Maybe adjusting the VANOS timing would provide for a flatter torque curve with raised boost.

    @Laloosh was saying before that the reason our torque is dropping off towards redline was due to the turbine housing limitation that is choking it. While I agree the stock and hybrid turbos have much more restricted exhaust housings than say Shiv's single, the same torque drop off (provided boost is flattened and timing is being raised) is still there. One of Shiv's recent dynos had 16psi to 22.5psi towards redline, tapering up, so that the torque curve would be flat across and not drop. Its great when the turbo can fill the void, however, isn't this telling that even with a de-restricted exhaust side the head or the VANOS timing configuration are a considerable limiting factor for the air pump the engine is? What else can it be?
    Click here to enlarge

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    @dzenno, you are right, I believe that the limiting factor for efficient airflow at that point (having shiv's single and manifold) is going to be in the head/valve-train and plumbing.

    There could be possible restriction even at the throttle body at the 600whp mark. I haven't calculated it out. But it is obvious that volumetric efficiency goes down past 5000RPM. I believe the head and valve-train is holding it back, and perhaps some software changes could help, but almost every other build I've seen needed changes beyond just modifying the variable valve timing.

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    The tourque will fall with RPM since the valves are open for shorter periods given the boost is fixed. I agree manipulating the VANOS would probably mean a lot to move the torque up in RPM, thus getting more top end if this is desired. Personally I'm just as interested in high low- and mid range power too and not only in top end that is a must for low ET's if grip permits.

    I've just begun to use the 335 after winter stop. The winter car, X3, is in for repair due to a failed 4wd distributor (don't know right term in your language...) The N54 engine is simply friggin awesome. Thanks for breaking new ground to the next level dzenno.

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    Its just engine speed. Any turbo car is going to have a humpish torque curve… it’s just where does this fall in the rpm range, and all depends on the turbo. Any head/plumbing work will result in a similar looking curve… just more area under it. VANOS would have an effect.

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    2 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Its just engine speed. Any turbo car is going to have a humpish torque curve… it’s just where does this fall in the rpm range, and all depends on the turbo. Any head/plumbing work will result in a similar looking curve… just more area under it. VANOS would have an effect.
    We have been remapping the VANOS tables in the DME for the last couple of weeks. With the exception of small (ie, can almost be mistaken for run to run dyno variance) down low during spool-up, there hasn't been any notable gains up top. BMW did not leave that much on the table in that respect.

    My post of the day Click here to enlarge

    And as Josh said, any engine is going to see a natural VE curve (with torque falling off up top). No pump is perfect at all rotational speeds. Especially one that was designed to provide full torque at ~2000rpm. Despite this, it's pretty amazing that this engine, with a suitable turbo, is capable of still making peak power at max revs. I suspect the same will hold true when we rev it out to 8k. Pretty cool.

  25. #50
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    One thing that comes into play is if the stock VANOS operation already extends the duration to it's maximum or not. More duration means power is moved up RPM wise.

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