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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I guess you US guys just got a peak into european pricing, it is a (sad) joke, especially considering the lower salaries combinded with higher income tax Click here to enlarge
    We pay our share of taxes as well. I got nothing back this year Click here to enlarge
    SOLD --'07 E90 335i, PTF COBB E50, HFS4, ER CP, ETS 7", AA DP, Vishnu Exhaust, DCI, ACT, Nitto Nt555

    '10 E92 335i M, 6MT COBB v3, ER IC, ER CP, VRSF DP, Fuel-it st2
    installing soon: Mfactory LSD, , powerflex subrframe bushings

  2. #52
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    So here goes: it's in german though.

    I asked primariliy about the airbox, some general info about the turbos and what tuning they use. I also told them a bit about my car and that I run downpipes with racecats.

    Hallo,

    vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage. Zunächst der Preis für die Airbox ist 2.080,-- € netto. Natürlich fahren wir jedes Bauteil auf dem Prüfstand aus. Die Airbox ist
    Grundvoraussetzung für Leistungsstufen ab ca. 420PS. Die großen Lader kosten je Stück 1.700,-- € netto und sind bis ca. 520PS notwendig. Die Wastegates
    kann man ändern, ist aber aus unserer Sicht nicht notwendig. Wir hatten bis heute noch keine Probleme. Das liegt aber sicher auch an anderen Punkten wie
    Druckauf und Abbaukurven etc. Wir fahren auch mit den Serien Schubumluftventilen und haben keine Problem damit, aber bisher die besten Ergebnisse
    erzielt.

    Strukturell ist es bei Ihrem Wagen aber nicht sinnvoll Downpipes mit Rennkats zu verwenden. Zum Einen ist es thermisch keine gute Entscheidung und bessere
    Ergebnisse erzielt man, in dem man Downpipes verwendet, die komplett offen sind und zur Vermeidung von Schäden am Zylinderkopf Dehnungsbereiche
    enthalten (häufiger Fehler des Mitbewerbs). Anstelle der Kats dort sollte man die Unterflurkats gegen Rennkats tauschen. Das bring Leistung und verbessert
    deutlich das Temperatur Verhalten. Zu Ihrer Information: Man erzielte ECHTE 400-420PS in völligem Serienzustand alleine durch ein vernünftiges Mapping.
    Siehe Alpina B3S. Die Airbox dort ist eher Kosmetik und für diese Leistung noch nicht notwendig.

    Die Software (Mapping) schreiben wir selber und ausschließlich bei uns im Haus auf jedes Fahrzeug je nach Ausbau angepasst. Wir verwenden keine Boxen
    o.Ä. Das Mapping auf 520PS kostet 1.500,-- €

    Was das Kühlerpack betrifft, wäre es sinnvoll, einen größeren Lüfter zu verbauen (850W anstelle 6xxW)

  3. #53
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I then asked about the installation of the airbox:
    Soweit ich erkennen kann, werden mit der Airbox auch die originalen Luftrohre zu den Turbos hin ersetzt. Eines dieser Rohre verläuft ja hinter dem Motor. Wie verhält es sich dort mit dem Einbau? Muss der Motor ausgebaut werden oder ist der Einbau selber machbar?

    Man kann es mit sehr viel Geduld und dünnen Fingern auch ohne Ausbau des Motors schaffen. Wir bauen den Motor der Einfachheit halber aber aus.

  4. #54
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    Someone translate.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  5. #55
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    What technical questions should I ask them about the turbos? Just let me know so I can pass them on. I'm too much of a noob when it comes to turbo technology so I need to rely on you guys here Click here to enlarge

    That airbox is the tits!! My guess is that it's technically a copy of the Alpina intake from the B3S, which also uses larger inlet snorkels. Tuningwerk does remove the engine to install the airbox and inlet tubes. Quite alot of work involved!

  6. #56
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Someone translate.
    You treat me to it Click here to enlarge

    Hello,

    Thank you for your inquiry. First, the price of the airbox is 2.080, - € net. Of course, we test each part on our dyno. The airbox is
    required for power levels above about 420HP. The big turbos cost per unit 1.700, - € net and are good for up to 520PS. The wastegate
    can be changed, but it is not necessary in our view. We had no problems until today. But I'm sure that is due to other points as
    boost build and release curves, etc. We also take the series diverter valves and have no problem with it.

    Structurally in your car it does not make sense to use Downpipes with Rennkats. Firstly, it is not a good choice and better thermal
    results are obtained using down pipes that are completely open and, to avoid damage to the cylinder head, includes extension areas
    (common mistake of the competition). Instead the secondary cats should be exchanged against Rennkats. This improves power and significantly the temperature behavior. For your information: We obtained 400-420 GENUINE HP in complete original condition alone by a rational mapping.
    See Alpina B3S. The air box there is more cosmetic and not necessary for this power level.

    The software (mapping), we write ourselves and in our house only on each vehicle adapted depending on the configuration. We do not use boxes
    or similar. The mapping to 520PS will cost 1.500, - €

    As for the cooler pack, it would make sense to build in a larger fan (850W instead 6xxW).

  7. #57
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    Ask them what exactly is different about those intake pipes from stock...i think we know tge answer but lers get a confirmation
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    i asked my shop (which installed the turbos and did the custom water/oil lines) about modifying the intake connection to the turbos with them installed and it was a no no answer. Basically as shown in the pictures here you need to remove them, make an alu connection and solder it to the pipe after cutting the stock one.
    Easier is just to remove the OEM ones and just make brand new piping.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Ask them what exactly is different about those intake pipes from stock...i think we know tge answer but lers get a confirmation
    These are replicas of the pipes from the Alpina B3S Biturbo. They are less pancaked than the stock pipes and have a bigger inlet on each side for better airflow.

    The price is rather ridiculous, though, knowing that replacement pipes for the Alpina cost aroun 300 EUR. The problem is just that you can't get these as Alpina does not sell them to non-Alpina cars.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: Audi R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires, Capristo x-pipe
    Gone: Audi R8 V10 2010 manual, ice silver, grey side blades, MTM tune, MTM air filters, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    These are replicas of the pipes from the Alpina B3S Biturbo. They are less pancaked than the stock pipes and have a bigger inlet on each side for better airflow.
    The price is rather ridiculous, though, knowing that replacement pipes for the Alpina cost aroun 300 EUR. The problem is just that you can't get these as Alpina does not sell them to non-Alpina cars.
    Alpina_B3_Lux
    That's what I thought, about the pipes being replicas of the Alpina units. The price is really the problem here. Installation must be another 500 Euros.

    Maybe the airbox can be sourced elsewhere for a better price? But considering motorsport24.de sells the same intake for 2.890 EUR, the price given by tuningwerk ain't half bad (without VAT though).

    At least this intake WILL provide tangible gains, as the inlet pipes are known to be restrictive.

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    The big turbos cost per unit 1.700, - € net and are good for up to 520hp.
    I already posted this on E90post, but the dyno on their website only shows 501hp and a drivetrain loss of almost 100hp which is way too much. On the same dyno I had consistently around 60hp drivetrain loss. I believe that they inflated the drivetrain loss in order to have a marketable 500hp figure.

    The turbos are from Loba Motorsport in Germany, they confirmed that in one of the German forums. Upgraded compressor and clipped turbine, similar to Helix or Turbo Dynamics stage 1, so nothing spectacular and not a full upgrade like RB, Turbo Dynamics stage 2 or ASR.

    The price for the turbos is rather high - with VAT you would have to pay 4000 EUR = 5300 USD, which is more than 2000 USD more than you would have to pay for the technically superior RB turbos.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    The wastegate can be changed, but it is not necessary in our view. We had no problems until today. But I'm sure that is due to other points as boost build and release curves, etc.
    No problems with the wastegates, alright. Any other questions? If anyone claiming to be remotely competent with the N54 says that, then I don't think we need to investigate any further.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    to avoid damage to the cylinder head, includes extension areas
    (common mistake of the competition).
    The necessity of extension areas in the downpipes was discussed extensively several years ago when the first aftermarket DPs came out, as the stock ones have these but most aftermarket ones do not. However, in spite of thousands of these being sold, I have never heard of any damage to the cylinder head.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    As for the cooler pack, it would make sense to build in a larger fan (850W instead 6xxW).
    If all they can think of is a larger fan and not even a bigger oil cooler is considered, then I can't see how they can drive with this car without permanently triggering limp modes.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: Audi R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires, Capristo x-pipe
    Gone: Audi R8 V10 2010 manual, ice silver, grey side blades, MTM tune, MTM air filters, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    That's what I thought, about the pipes being replicas of the Alpina units. The price is really the problem here. Installation must be another 500 Euros.
    That will not be sufficient. As you will have to remove the engine for installation, I would at least double that price. Tuningwerk is asking that much for installation which is around 12-14 hours of work; realistic for taking out the engine and reconnecting everything again afterwards.

    Alpina_B3_Lux
    Current: Audi R8 V10 2013 S-Tronic, daytona grey, carbon side blades, MTM tune, Michelin PSS tires, Capristo x-pipe
    Gone: Audi R8 V10 2010 manual, ice silver, grey side blades, MTM tune, MTM air filters, Michelin PSS tires
    Gone: BMW 335i Individual (Öhlins, PFC brakes, RB turbos etc.)

    Gone: Alpina B3 E46 3,3

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    If all they can think of is a larger fan and not even a bigger oil cooler is considered, then I can't see how they can drive with this car without permanently triggering limp modes.
    Alpina_B3_Lux
    This part got a bit lost in my post. I told them about the cooling mods on my car, and they advised that the fan would be beneficial. It would cost 700 EUR though with the relais and cables.

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
    The turbos are from Loba Motorsport in Germany, they confirmed that in one of the German forums. Upgraded compressor and clipped turbine, similar to Helix or Turbo Dynamics stage 1, so nothing spectacular and not a full upgrade like RB, Turbo Dynamics stage 2 or ASR.
    That's a big disappointment. I was hoping they do some custom work themselves. But in fact they just resell parts readily available.

  15. #65
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    What a waste honestly...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    What a waste honestly...
    No resaonable tuning options in Europe for our own domestic cars. Crap!

  17. #67
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    Stupid question, but is that intake tract just held on with two bolts and pressed onto the turbo inlet? Mine seems pretty snug and reluctant to come off. Didn't want to break it just yet lol.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
    That's a big disappointment. I was hoping they do some custom work themselves. But in fact they just resell parts readily available.
    One of our customers send me this post. I´m wondering. We never confirmed that we buy anything from Loba. We do not have any contacts to them. Our compression and turbine wheel are develop inhouse. We change the bearing with a hq one further we change the wastegate. The thing we leave is the BOV there we don´t see any reason to replace the stock ones. Further it is a interesting thing that someone was writing that we have a copy of the Alpina B3S Airbox. That´s not true. We developed our own one with a much higher airflow. We offer 2 different Airbox types. One we are selling to other tuners, the other one is just for our own customers. The second one is full carbon with much larger carbon air pipes. The next thing is that we offer 3 different types of chargers. 2 modified stock ones, but cut, with both new wheels but with different wheel signature and a 3rd one goes up to 620hp is ball bearing modified Garrett. The standard program means a 1:1 (the first 2 steps) replacement of stock parts. Next the cooling concepts. Here we developed together with a large German industrial supplier own coolers and we produce with 2 small company's. But we also sell parts from others, like all other tuners..... For track cars, i read other comments, we offer always a second oil cooler, a gearbox oil cooler AND a rear axle cooler further a more efficient main cooler. This guy compares a street setup for a customer never see a track with about 400hp with a track car. It´s easy to copy some parts out of a comment. The most carbon parts we offer, are developed by tuningwerk and we own the molds. If other tuners are selling those parts, it doesn´t mean that they are the developer. Sometimes we do a co development. What´s wrong with this? There are many other well experienced tuners with high quality products.... The last point is the criticized pricing. We are selling all of our own part with a 1 year warranty. Next is, that we develop the most parts by our self and we have to take the molding plus the development cost. It´s much easier to copy something like some others. So we calculate our price. If we are to expensive, sorry for that. If i read the air pipes from, Alpina are just 300.-- $ it´s ok. I believe this, but this is a complete different production technology and other molding costs. It will be the same if someone compares a stock front, with production cost of 150.-- $ but moldig costs of 120,000.--$ with a small series production but expect the same price.

  19. #69
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    @tuningwerk, do you have a picture you could share of the difference in size of the upgraded intake pipe and stock, at the inlet to the compressor as well as top where it connects to the airbox...i'd like to see how much more diameter you've managed to give it if that's ok with you
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tuningwerk Click here to enlarge
    One of our customers send me this post. I´m wondering. We never confirmed that we buy anything from Loba. We do not have any contacts to them. Our compression and turbine wheel are develop inhouse. We change the bearing with a hq one further we change the wastegate. The thing we leave is the BOV there we don´t see any reason to replace the stock ones. Further it is a interesting thing that someone was writing that we have a copy of the Alpina B3S Airbox. That´s not true. We developed our own one with a much higher airflow. We offer 2 different Airbox types. One we are selling to other tuners, the other one is just for our own customers. The second one is full carbon with much larger carbon air pipes. The next thing is that we offer 3 different types of chargers. 2 modified stock ones, but cut, with both new wheels but with different wheel signature and a 3rd one goes up to 620hp is ball bearing modified Garrett. The standard program means a 1:1 (the first 2 steps) replacement of stock parts. Next the cooling concepts. Here we developed together with a large German industrial supplier own coolers and we produce with 2 small company's. But we also sell parts from others, like all other tuners..... For track cars, i read other comments, we offer always a second oil cooler, a gearbox oil cooler AND a rear axle cooler further a more efficient main cooler. This guy compares a street setup for a customer never see a track with about 400hp with a track car. It´s easy to copy some parts out of a comment. The most carbon parts we offer, are developed by tuningwerk and we own the molds. If other tuners are selling those parts, it doesn´t mean that they are the developer. Sometimes we do a co development. What´s wrong with this? There are many other well experienced tuners with high quality products.... The last point is the criticized pricing. We are selling all of our own part with a 1 year warranty. Next is, that we develop the most parts by our self and we have to take the molding plus the development cost. It´s much easier to copy something like some others. So we calculate our price. If we are to expensive, sorry for that. If i read the air pipes from, Alpina are just 300.-- $ it´s ok. I believe this, but this is a complete different production technology and other molding costs. It will be the same if someone compares a stock front, with production cost of 150.-- $ but moldig costs of 120,000.--$ with a small series production but expect the same price.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    @tuningwerk , do you have a picture you could share of the difference in size of the upgraded intake pipe and stock, at the inlet to the compressor as well as top where it connects to the airbox...i'd like to see how much more diameter you've managed to give it if that's ok with you
    I'm also interested in this, as well.

    Do your intake pipes mount to the factory airbox? If so, do you sell these pipes separately?
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I'm also interested in this, as well.

    Do your intake pipes mount to the factory airbox? If so, do you sell these pipes separately?
    They don't mount to the factory airbox as they're apparently larger diameter and last I checked they don't sell them separately
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I'm also interested in this, as well.

    Do your intake pipes mount to the factory airbox? If so, do you sell these pipes separately?
    They don't mount to the factory airbox as they're apparently larger diameter and last I checked they don't sell them separately
    Click here to enlarge

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