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    Thumbs up Kevin's E85 BURNING HPF Stage 1 Turbo BMW M3 w/HPF-AEM

    Kevin drove and raced his E46 M3 with our stage 2 and 2.5 turbo kits for several years. He recently bought another gorgeous white E46 "SMG" M3 and shipped it to us for our HPF/AEM "E85" tune. This car is running our standard stage 1 turbo system with no other modifications except for our in tank walbro pump upgrade, FIC injectors and E85 for fuel. The switch on his steering column switches between low boost (6psi) and high boost (12psi). The car is so quiet and so smooth. A 620rwhp "stealth" daily driver is very cool. Click here to enlarge
    Chris.

    HPF/AEM w/E85

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    Looks and sounds Great Click here to enlarge
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    EURO 04 M3 Current Mods:GC DAs, Eibach Sways, PF RTAB's, RE RCAs, INTRAVEE II, Black Roundels, ///MFEST Badges, Depo's, Screen protector for NAV display, VCSL Bumper + Race Lip & CF Trunk & CF Rear Diffusor, DIETZ TV in Motion, SS= V1 Headers + catless pipes + X-Pipe + SS Sport Exhaust, Z8 Starter Button, Lamin-X, OEM CSL interior, OEM CSL Steering, OEM CSL Intake, OEM CSL Roof, MSS54HP + OEM CSL Tune, BBS CH's, LIGHTWERKZ, 355mm ST40 BBK, BW Oil Cooler....

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    E85 with the AEM... there we go.

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    I'm liking this E85 setup with the AEM system. I'll have to email Kirk and get details. May ditch the "stage 2" for the e85 tune
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    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nnacpil Click here to enlarge
    I'm liking this E85 setup with the AEM system. I'll have to email Kirk and get details. May ditch the "stage 2" for the e85 tune
    I was very spoiled test driving Kevin's M3 on E85. Sooo smooth.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPF Chris Click here to enlarge
    I was very spoiled test driving Kevin's M3 on E85. Sooo smooth.
    Hopefully you can answer this for me, Chris.. If I go with the Stage 1 setup with the E85 tune on high boost, What is needed with the setup? I pretty much have everything set with Kirk with the new parts: Precision Turbo 6766, upgraded Walbro fuel pump 255lph, and carbon fiber air intake. The only thing I don't have is the FIC fuel injectors that Kevin has on his car. I'm sure I would need to get the upgraded injectors.

    Any possibilities of having 3 tunes: Pump, E70 (winter blend), and E85 (summer blend) instead of the stage 2 tunes (race and meth)?
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    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nnacpil Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully you can answer this for me, Chris.. If I go with the Stage 1 setup with the E85 tune on high boost, What is needed with the setup? I pretty much have everything set with Kirk with the new parts: Precision Turbo 6766, upgraded Walbro fuel pump 255lph, and carbon fiber air intake. The only thing I don't have is the FIC fuel injectors that Kevin has on his car. I'm sure I would need to get the upgraded injectors.

    Any possibilities of having 3 tunes: Pump, E70 (winter blend), and E85 (summer blend) instead of the stage 2 tunes (race and meth)?
    Bump for an answer.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Bump for an answer.
    Just got off the phone with Kirk@HPF. So the thing with Kevin's car is that he is tuned conservatively with ethanol ALL the time. So he's always going to pump ethanol in his tank. I think they tuned it to e70 or something around those lines. He can technically get more power, but it may not be safe for the motor so that's why it's tune the way it is.

    Basically, It's impossibly to tune the different fuel maps between pump and ethanol. The AEM EMS is not capable to do this because of the different variables (timing, fuel, etc.) with the 2 maps.

    So looks like I'm sticking with the stage 2 for now until the new AEM infinity comes out??
    Click here to enlarge
    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    @HPF Chris what turbo are you using for the Stage 1 here? Dyno looks pretty nice I must say
    Click here to enlarge

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    I dont understand this at all. AEM is perfectly capable of multipe tunes..ie pump, pump plus meth, race, race plus meth. At the very least 2 Ethanol tunes could be written..E70 for winter and E85 for summer. The owner has the option of pumping his tank dry between fuels or monitoring ethanol percentage on a built in gauge on the fuel tank. By the second or third tank after switching fuels things should have well evened out. The owner simply must never select a more aggressive tune than his E percentage meter is showing him.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bdave Click here to enlarge
    I dont understand this at all. AEM is perfectly capable of multipe tunes..ie pump, pump plus meth, race, race plus meth. At the very least 2 Ethanol tunes could be written..E70 for winter and E85 for summer. The owner has the option of pumping his tank dry between fuels or monitoring ethanol percentage on a built in gauge on the fuel tank. By the second or third tank after switching fuels things should have well evened out. The owner simply must never select a more aggressive tune than his E percentage meter is showing him.
    Yes, probably 2 ethanol maps can be written but I think the more aggressive E85 tune may be too much power for the S54 stock motor. So Kevin's car has 2 tunes for low and high boost but is constantly running on A conservative lower percentage ethanol map.

    Dave PM me if you want on e46f and we can discuss more in detail.
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    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nnacpil Click here to enlarge
    Dave PM me if you want on e46f and we can discuss more in detail.
    Why advocate PM'ing or going somewhere else?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why advocate PM'ing or going somewhere else?
    Sorry, Dave and I have been discussing this for a couple of days on my turbo build. He's very knowledgeable on the subject and has been helping me get my car E85 compatible. Didn't want to flood the thread on my build.
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    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bdave Click here to enlarge
    I dont understand this at all. AEM is perfectly capable of multipe tunes..ie pump, pump plus meth, race, race plus meth. At the very least 2 Ethanol tunes could be written..E70 for winter and E85 for summer. The owner has the option of pumping his tank dry between fuels or monitoring ethanol percentage on a built in gauge on the fuel tank. By the second or third tank after switching fuels things should have well evened out. The owner simply must never select a more aggressive tune than his E percentage meter is showing him.
    It all comes down to how many compensation tables, or how much realtime calculation an ECU can do.

    3D Fuel Map = RPM X Load X Injector Duty Cycle
    4D Fuel Map = RPM X Load X Aux Sensor X Injector Duty Cycle

    In this case of adjusting for varying alchohol in fuel, the Aux Sensor would be the E85 sensor.

    If an ECU has 4D fuel and ignition mapping, than it should be able to compensate for E85...or E70 real time with an appropriate fuel sensor.

    Better ECU's have 5D and even 6D mapping that allow a wide range of features to be added to engine control.

    Note that my explanation is vendor neutral.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nnacpil Click here to enlarge
    Just got off the phone with Kirk HPF. So the thing with Kevin's car is that he is tuned conservatively with ethanol ALL the time. So he's always going to pump ethanol in his tank. I think they tuned it to e70 or something around those lines. He can technically get more power, but it may not be safe for the motor so that's why it's tune the way it is.

    Basically, It's impossibly to tune the different fuel maps between pump and ethanol. The AEM EMS is not capable to do this because of the different variables (timing, fuel, etc.) with the 2 maps.

    So looks like I'm sticking with the stage 2 for now until the new AEM infinity comes out??

    This discussion is very much on topic. We are talking about the tune choices for Brians car, the reasons they were made and the possibility of something else in a differnt situation for someone with a BUILT motor.

    I understand why an E85 tune on a stage 1 car might produce so much PH that it takes the stock internals over the limit. Some testament for a fuel, huh? No meth or nothin'!
    OK, so make a safe E70 tune that will work with E85 or E70 and still make GREAT power safely...630rwhp. Fine, that's all good.
    But what about a gasoline tune? What about a selectable E85 tune for those of us with built motors? I dont understasnd why a built HPF motor could not chose between 3 pre programmed fuel maps, 68% ethanol(E70), 83% ehtanol(E85) and 91 octane?
    I understand the AEM is incapable of running a FLEXIBLE tune. I am 100% Ok with that. AFAIK, there are Supras, Subarus, and Cobra Mustangs all boosted, all on AEM, with more than one fuel map,,,the two ethanol maps and a single pump gas map.
    Just choose the map that is safe to run with what your Zeitronics E85 gauge is telling what you have.

    I dont know 100% or sure...does Brian HAVE a pump gas tune? One day, for sure, the car will HAVE to run gasoline at least to make it to an E85 station. How would gasoline burn on an E70 tune? What would happen?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bdave Click here to enlarge
    This discussion is very much on topic. We are talking about the tune choices for Brians car, the reasons they were made and the possibility of something else in a differnt situation for someone with a BUILT motor.

    I understand why an E85 tune on a stage 1 car might produce so much PH that it takes the stock internals over the limit. Some testament for a fuel, huh? No meth or nothin'!
    OK, so make a safe E70 tune that will work with E85 or E70 and still make GREAT power safely...630rwhp. Fine, that's all good.
    But what about a gasoline tune? What about a selectable E85 tune for those of us with built motors? I dont understasnd why a built HPF motor could not chose between 3 pre programmed fuel maps, 68% ethanol(E70), 83% ehtanol(E85) and 91 octane?
    I understand the AEM is incapable of running a FLEXIBLE tune. I am 100% Ok with that. AFAIK, there are Supras, Subarus, and Cobra Mustangs all boosted, all on AEM, with more than one fuel map,,,the two ethanol maps and a single pump gas map.
    Just choose the map that is safe to run with what your Zeitronics E85 gauge is telling what you have.

    I dont know 100% or sure...does Brian HAVE a pump gas tune? One day, for sure, the car will HAVE to run gasoline at least to make it to an E85 station. How would gasoline burn on an E70 tune? What would happen?
    Kirk said if he really needed to run pump gas, he would be in limp mode
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    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    It all comes down to how many compensation tables, or how much realtime calculation an ECU can do.

    3D Fuel Map = RPM X Load X Injector Duty Cycle
    4D Fuel Map = RPM X Load X Aux Sensor X Injector Duty Cycle

    In this case of adjusting for varying alchohol in fuel, the Aux Sensor would be the E85 sensor.

    If an ECU has 4D fuel and ignition mapping, than it should be able to compensate for E85...or E70 real time with an appropriate fuel sensor.

    Better ECU's have 5D and even 6D mapping that allow a wide range of features to be added to engine control.

    Note that my explanation is vendor neutral.
    Forgive. I understand none of this. Let me re phrase. Does a HPF AEM set up have the capability of running a pump gas tune and a seperate ethanol tune. Why not? The Stage 2.5 and up come with four selectable tunes: pump, pump+meth, race, and race+meth.
    Why cant the same ECU do a single ethanol tune and a useable pump gas tune so you would not have to be in the limp mode if you were forced to run pump gas (too far from an E85/E70 source?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bdave Click here to enlarge
    Forgive. I understand none of this. Let me re phrase. Does a HPF AEM set up have the capability of running a pump gas tune and a seperate ethanol tune. Why not? The Stage 2.5 and up come with four selectable tunes: pump, pump+meth, race, and race+meth.
    Why cant the same ECU do a single ethanol tune and a useable pump gas tune so you would not have to be in the limp mode if you were forced to run pump gas (too far from an E85/E70 source?
    We use the AEM's additional fuel and timing maps for race fuel and methanol. The AEM doesn't have all the other tables that would be required to quickly switch from pump gas to pure E85. However.... Someone could simply upload a new map into the AEM when they switch from pump gas to E85 and back. Click here to enlarge

    Chris.
    STAGE 1 M3 TURBO KIT SALE - $13,500!!!!
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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPF Chris Click here to enlarge
    We use the AEM's additional fuel and timing maps for race fuel and methanol. The AEM doesn't have all the other tables that would be required to quickly switch from pump gas to pure E85. However.... Someone could simply upload a new map into the AEM when they switch from pump gas to E85 and back. Click here to enlarge

    Chris.
    Thank you! Finally! I couldnt get the answer anywhere. Well, I could certainly deal with that...for a year or so. I would change to AEM Infinity Flex fuel at my first opportunity of course. But I could dedicate the car to run on pump gas for a long trip. The ideais to always have a tablet or small 10 inch laptop(i have the perfect one) with the software loaded on the hard drive. Correct? How many megabytes are we talking about? Could the program be carried on a simple flash drive? I wonder how long it would take to swap. The important thing is that it CAN be done. Great!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Bdave Click here to enlarge
    Thank you! Finally! I couldnt get the answer anywhere. Well, I could certainly deal with that...for a year or so. I would change to AEM Infinity Flex fuel at my first opportunity of course. But I could dedicate the car to run on pump gas for a long trip. The ideais to always have a tablet or small 10 inch laptop(i have the perfect one) with the software loaded on the hard drive. Correct? How many megabytes are we talking about? Could the program be carried on a simple flash drive? I wonder how long it would take to swap. The important thing is that it CAN be done. Great!
    I have a Lenovo x300 with 5 spare batteries that I keep in my car for troubleshooting. Last time I had to use it was because my jet sucker pump for transferring fuel from one saddle to the other failed. I showed 1/4 tank but it wouldn't stay running. I assumed it was a failed pump but with my laptop connected I could see the car was getting no fuel pressure at all (which would mean all 3 pumps failed which is unlikely). Jason remotes into the laptop and confirmed it looked like I was out of fuel. I had a friend bring 5g of gas and we were back in business.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ZooyorQ Click here to enlarge
    I have a Lenovo x300 with 5 spare batteries that I keep in my car for troubleshooting. Last time I had to use it was because my jet sucker pump for transferring fuel from one saddle to the other failed. I showed 1/4 tank but it wouldn't stay running. I assumed it was a failed pump but with my laptop connected I could see the car was getting no fuel pressure at all (which would mean all 3 pumps failed which is unlikely). Jason remotes into the laptop and confirmed it looked like I was out of fuel. I had a friend bring 5g of gas and we were back in business.
    Yes! I hear you. I bought a 10 inch HP with tons of battery power and I have an inverter that plugs into my cig lighter for emergency charging. I never use that laptop because the keyboard is too small. It would be perfect to keep in the car.
    But I KNOW that Supra guys who are running AEM can switch tunes from E85 to pump gas with just a switch..no fuss. There still may be a way. If not, then I would go the mini lap top route. It would be do able/worth the trouble. For sure.
    So at least I know there is ONE way to skin this cat.
    Then I would want to get with HPF to TRY to optimize their TC as best as can be done. It wont be seamless, but I have seen a video of it working pretty darn well.
    I cant post links yet in this forum...
    Comment: ahhh, the old jet sucker situation...I have heard of this hard to troubleshoot occurrence. Well done.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by HPF Chris Click here to enlarge
    We use the AEM's additional fuel and timing maps for race fuel and methanol. The AEM doesn't have all the other tables that would be required to quickly switch from pump gas to pure E85. However.... Someone could simply upload a new map into the AEM when they switch from pump gas to E85 and back. Click here to enlarge

    Chris.
    This sounds great! Thanks for the answer
    Click here to enlarge
    2006 BMW lllM3 SilverGrayMetallic/Cinnamon/OEM 19"
    llHPF Stage 2 Precision Turbo 6766 w/Open Dump

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    or you could buy a second ems for e85 Click here to enlarge

    swapping that out is a breeze!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dreikraft Click here to enlarge
    or you could buy a second ems for e85 Click here to enlarge

    swapping that out is a breeze!
    What about a second EMS with a harness and a switch? That is do able I believe. Very do able. But at what cost? Would the cost be worth the convenience of not having to load and re load programs?
    Chris? Care to speculate on such a set up? There must be used ECU's around that are affordable that would work? Or would this involve a second HPF DME? I admit, I dont understand it all. It's important to me only that something could be made to work at a reasonable price.

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    heres how i was thinking of it...
    you buy a used aem ems in addition to the one you already have( there seem to be alot for sale these days). have one ems dedicated for ethanol the other for your pump/meth/race etc. fuel maps....when you want to run e85 just pull up and fill up your empty tank with e85. meanwhile you open the hood and swap the ems. its a work around but not too troublesome. your gonna have to check your ethanol content yourself anyway when using the aem everytime you fill up with ethanol at the pump right?

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