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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well he said he has done one part of his upgrades on his car and has a second waiting for when he needs it. He mist have done something right as before this everyone was saying the fuel system was tapped out around 500whp and he's about 130whp over that now and only hasn't gone higher because of the map sensor. As for him showing online what it is I hope he's realized that is not the right approach, do what you do and show people you can make it work. If they want it they can come to you to get it, no need to feed all your R&D to the competition so they can criticize it all while trying their damnedest to copy it lol.
    505whp on pump only 94 octane. Doesn't seem like much of a fuel upgrade. All the gains over 500whp seem to be directly a result of meth and 4 nozzles.

    I guess we will see. HPF got 494whp on 92 octane, 17psi. That is without Shiv's fuel system upgrade. HPF said their goal first is to push pump only, with only a change to stock map sensor. The owner of the car said he expects mid to upper 500whp, no meth and no fuel system upgrade. Who knows HPF might be a little too optimistic.


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    505whp on pump only 94 octane. Doesn't seem like much of a fuel upgrade. All the gains over 500whp seem to be directly a result of meth and 4 nozzles.

    I guess we will see. HPF got 494whp on 92 octane, 17psi. That is without Shiv's fuel system upgrade. HPF said their goal first is to push pump only, with only a change to stock map sensor. The owner of the car said he expects mid to upper 500whp, no meth and no fuel system upgrade. Who knows HPF might be a little too optimistic.
    We have yet to push the system to it's pump gas limit. Although we were coming close to it in terms of octane/knock constraints at 500+whp. Running on race gas would allow us to bump up boost more and probably make closer to 600whp (without meth). But when you can inject methanol to make the burn more stable, octane much higher and IATs much lower, it doesn't make sense to not use it. Our primary goal here is to tune the engine the way it wants to be tuned. Not to prove any point to anyone in particular.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robert Click here to enlarge
    We have yet to push the system to it's pump gas limit. Although we were coming close to it in terms of octane/knock constraints at 500+whp. Running on race gas would allow us to bump up boost more and probably make closer to 600whp (without meth). But when you can inject methanol to make the burn more stable, octane much higher and IATs much lower, it doesn't make sense to not use it. Our primary goal here is to tune the engine the way it wants to be tuned. Not to prove any point to anyone in particular.
    thats a bull$#@! answer. you, shiv or robert, are well aware people are dying for pumpgas numbers first, and good pumpgas #'s would highlight the "fuel" system upgrade, if their is one (other than meth of course)
    good example is hpfs data, pump-pump/meth-race/meth

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thats a bull$#! answer. you, shiv or robert, are well aware people are dying for pumpgas numbers first, and good pumpgas #'s would highlight the "fuel" system upgrade, if their is one (other than meth of course)
    good example is hpfs data, pump-pump/meth-race/meth
    Judging by the number of single turbo conversions we have booked ahead of us, I'd say we are doing a respectable job of answering questions and providing the info that people have been demanding. As a tuner, I'm always well aware of the difference between sound tuning and silly tuning. If you would like to support 600+whp on pump (or race) gas alone, feel free to try it. Just not on our development car.

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robert Click here to enlarge
    Judging by the number of single turbo conversions we have booked ahead of us, I'd say we are doing a respectable job of answering questions and providing the info that people have been demanding. As a tuner, I'm always well aware of the difference between sound tuning and silly tuning. If you would like to support 600+whp on pump (or race) gas alone, feel free to try it. Just not on our development car.
    dont confuse what retards hangin on you/shivs nuts do, and what the majority want

    sound tuning to me, is finding out what the real pump gas limit is, safely of course. That does 2 things, 1st finds out the limits so you can back it off for max performance (isnt that what everyone wants?)
    2nd, it shows that it actually has a fuel system upgrade and when/where one would need it. but ofc ourse, that could cut into prospective sales of "fuel upgrade"
    OR shows that the "fuel upgrade" is not real....

    silly, to me is maintaining pump/meth tuning without knowing where and why you NEED to start using it..

    but hey what do i know, im just a guy that dumps money into cars for fun, not a guy misleading the public into buying car parts from me..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    thats a bull$#@! answer. you, shiv or robert, are well aware people are dying for pumpgas numbers first, and good pumpgas #'s would highlight the "fuel" system upgrade, if their is one (other than meth of course)
    good example is hpfs data, pump-pump/meth-race/meth
    I always wonder what kind of people would spend the money and effort to go to a big single and then want to drive around on pure 91 pump gas lol? Why wouldn't that person be running meth? And I also have to chuckle at the silly MF's who say the extra 130whp is coming from meth, well then why the $#@! hadn't anyone gone anywhere close to it before? Haters gonna hate I guess.

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    I think a smaller turbo (maybe the smallest option Vishnu will offer should fit this bill) with good spool and about 500 whp max on pump 93 would be more than adequate for me. I know they showed that their medium size turbo can handle this too, but I would love to see 500 whp from the faster spooling turbo. If we can then bump that number closer to 600 or maybe more with meth, it would be the perfect setup for my DD.

    I know we all want huge numbers, but for me 500 on pump is a lot of fun on the street, especially when you know another 100 hp or so is only a map change / meth refill away.

    I'm pretty optimistic of Vishnu hitting this number, and I think that the newest build is an AT using the smallest turbo so that will be the one I am looking forward to.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I always wonder what kind of people would spend the money and effort to go to a big single and then want to drive around on pure 91 pump gas lol? Why wouldn't that person be running meth? And I also have to chuckle at the silly MF's who say the extra 130whp is coming from meth, well then why the $#! hadn't anyone gone anywhere close to it before? Haters gonna hate I guess.
    Yep!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    I think a smaller turbo (maybe the smallest option Vishnu will offer should fit this bill) with good spool and about 500 whp max on pump 93 would be more than adequate for me. I know they showed that their medium size turbo can handle this too, but I would love to see 500 whp from the faster spooling turbo. If we can then bump that number closer to 600 or maybe more with meth, it would be the perfect setup for my DD.

    I know we all want huge numbers, but for me 500 on pump is a lot of fun on the street, especially when you know another 100 hp or so is only a map change / meth refill away.

    I'm pretty optimistic of Vishnu hitting this number, and I think that the newest build is an AT using the smallest turbo so that will be the one I am looking forward to.
    No problem making 500+whp on pump only with the small turbo option. It should also be able to make well over 600whp on meth+pump.

  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I always wonder what kind of people would spend the money and effort to go to a big single and then want to drive around on pure 91 pump gas lol? Why wouldn't that person be running meth? And I also have to chuckle at the silly MF's who say the extra 130whp is coming from meth, well then why the $#@! hadn't anyone gone anywhere close to it before? Haters gonna hate I guess.
    i often wonder how such a smart man that gives it his all to defend the proper R&D and tuning will so easily put those beliefs aside when shiv is the focul point of a discussion..

    same argument reverts back to the hpf scenario, xyz on pump/ xyy on pump/meth, xxx on race meth
    by your logic, why use race fuel at all? meth does what it does only better, so screw it and dont ever use racefuel because your meth system will work everytime right, you will never run out of meth, hell, while we are at it, just convert to an alky running motor, since its the best fuel there is

  11. #61
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    Shiv posted some more.....looks like the n54 is built pretty well, I really think BMW had more than 300hp in mind when building this engine....

    Edit....I cant post it, my iPad isn't cooperating with me lol, maybe someone else can
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i often wonder how such a smart man that gives it his all to defend the proper R&D and tuning will so easily put those beliefs aside when shiv is the focul point of a discussion..

    same argument reverts back to the hpf scenario, xyz on pump/ xyy on pump/meth, xxx on race meth
    by your logic, why use race fuel at all? meth does what it does only better, so screw it and dont ever use racefuel because your meth system will work everytime right, you will never run out of meth, hell, while we are at it, just convert to an alky running motor, since its the best fuel there is
    What are you talking about, meth is race fuel. And yes it is the best race fuel out there so even though that was not what I was saying(because it won't lead to max power as being used) yes meth+pump can replace the need for race fuel in all but the most extreme cars. I don't care one way or the other if shiv tests the limits of straight pump but just tell me in what scenario someone would want to install a single turbo and then NOT use meth? It just doesn't make sense to me, if your wanting to know the effectiveness of shiv's fuel upgrades your asking for the wrong thing. What you need to be asking for and I would also like to see is what power can you make with straight race fuel and that will allow you to gauge how well his upgrade performs.

  13. #63
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    no, im asking to see pumpgas number, i sure as hell am not NOT gonna use meth, im a firm believer in it, but its always been beneficial and a band-aid for fueling. so in the tuner department, to not know what the motor an do on straigh pump is ridiculous, from enthusiast perspective, i want to know what it can do on straight pump for those days i dont have meth, cant get meth, have a meth flow problem

    An ancillary answery to the above tells us whether or not the "fuel upgrade" is real or not. i already know the answer, but i want to hear more BS come from that house

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    no, im asking to see pumpgas number, i sure as hell am not NOT gonna use meth, im a firm believer in it, but its always been beneficial and a band-aid for fueling. so in the tuner department, to not know what the motor an do on straigh pump is ridiculous, from enthusiast perspective, i want to know what it can do on straight pump for those days i dont have meth, cant get meth, have a meth flow problem

    An ancillary answery to the above tells us whether or not the "fuel upgrade" is real or not. i already know the answer, but i want to hear more BS come from that house
    When you accuse us of "BS", we know we are doing something right Click here to enlarge

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    depends on what side of "right" you speak of.. right for the consumers, or "right" to fill the pockets of certain people from propoganda selling overpriced and unneccessary hardware, as has been shown to be the method of choice for over 10+ yrs and 3 platforms now..

    .....Im sure its the latter

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    depends on what side of "right" you speak of.. right for the consumers, or "right" to fill the pockets of certain people from propoganda selling overpriced and unneccessary hardware, as has been shown to be the method of choice for over 10+ yrs and 3 platforms now..

    .....Im sure its the latter
    If that's the case then I'm sure Terry or Cobb will soon make 600+whp but the question is why haven't they then? They've been stuck on the same numbers and saying the fueling was the issue and shiv says he has a fix and make 130hp more than anyone before and you think nothing has changed?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    If that's the case then I'm sure Terry or Cobb will soon make 600+whp but the question is why haven't they then? They've been stuck on the same numbers and saying the fueling was the issue and shiv says he has a fix and make 130hp more than anyone before and you think nothing has changed?
    Terry and Cobb only have upgraded turbos to play with. Pretty sure Shiv hasn't hit 600 using his "fueling solution" on upgraded twin turbos.

    The main reason Shiv is making 600+ is because of his SINGLE turbo.

    And I'm pretty sure Cobb has never said fueling was an issue. Cobb is currently testing the limitations of the RB turbos which they have divulged, yet.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Terry and Cobb only have upgraded turbos to play with. Pretty sure Shiv hasn't hit 600 using his "fueling solution" on upgraded twin turbos.

    The main reason Shiv is making 600+ is because of his SINGLE turbo.

    And I'm pretty sure Cobb has never said fueling was an issue. Cobb is currently testing the limitations of the RB turbos which they have divulged, yet.
    Well I've heard both Rob@RB and Terry say the twins have more in em so why hasnt it happened? If you go back to the single thread when shiv first got like 570 both said it was not that impressive and was also limited cause of the fueling.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    If that's the case then I'm sure Terry or Cobb will soon make 600+whp but the question is why haven't they then? They've been stuck on the same numbers and saying the fueling was the issue and shiv says he has a fix and make 130hp more than anyone before and you think nothing has changed?
    That's stretching it a bit too far...when did Terry or Cobb try to tune larger than hybrid twins? I don't understand your "push" for this argument, pretty lame

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well I've heard both Rob@RB and Terry say the twins have more in em so why hasnt it happened? If you go back to the single thread when shiv first got like 570 both said it was not that impressive and was also limited cause of the fueling.
    When you say "both said" who are you referring to? Your earlier post was bashing Terry and Cobb and now you are saying Terry and Rob Beck...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    When you say "both said" who are you referring to? Your earlier post was bashing Terry and Cobb and now you are saying Terry and Rob Beck...
    Slow your roll I'm not bashing anyone. What I said was if 600+whp is possible without a fueling upgrade and everyone seems to say upgraded twins have more left in em then we will should soon see Terry or Cobb make more power. Where in that statement do you see me bashing anyone? If anything I need to be bashing your reading comprehension.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    That's stretching it a bit too far...when did Terry or Cobb try to tune larger than hybrid twins? I don't understand your "push" for this argument, pretty lame
    They haven't. But at least Terry has said there is more left in the twins.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Well I've heard both Rob@RB and Terry say the twins have more in em so why hasnt it happened? If you go back to the single thread when shiv first got like 570 both said it was not that impressive and was also limited cause of the fueling.
    We've run 11.2@125 with stock turbos @ 445rw. Last time I checked the 650whp Vishnu/Magic muffler car has only matched that MPH and while running at a faster track. Nothing even close on ET. Not to mention we've had customers run 129-133mph on both RBs and stock turbos+nitrous. So maybe the Vishnu results are not that impressive yet but I'm sure they will improve with time. We've got the hardware ready to go to run a single when the various manifolds start hitting the streets. Also have plenty of fuel system ideas to flush out. Now as far as this "single turbo revolution" goes they are welcome to do it first and bask in that glory. When the time is right and customer demand is there we'll just jump in that arena and do it better and for less. Click here to enlarge

    RE: RBs there is definitely more there in the midrange but up top I think they are maxed out at around 520rw. On the plus side they offer terrific spool speed and driving characteristics along with enough power to run 10s.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-22-2012 at 12:15 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    They haven't. But at least Terry has said there is more left in the twins.
    No one said more is left for sure. Some of us are just hoping there's more in midrange with a 3.5bar tmap given that the fuel isn't an issue and the turbo compressor map indicates the turbos on which the RB upgrade is based on can make more than 21psi in midrange while tapering to redline. Basically 3.5bar is there to give the RBs a chance IF they can provide more air at 20+psi which remains to be seen.

    Fueling though is a separate topic from that and we know 100% there are zero fueling issues without meth on RBs which wasn't/isn't the case with the procede without the fuel "upgrade", whatever that is as its obvious the stock fuel system has plenty left in it

    Once other kits hit the market Cobb would have fun tuning for a single turbo...to start it'd be nice if wastegates were actuated similarly to stock so its plug and play with the stock solenoids and requires just boost control rescaling...

    Once for example a Steed Speed Performance manifold is released I think this will become something people will start to demand more from both camps Cobb's and Terry's
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 03-22-2012 at 12:00 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Slow your roll I'm not bashing anyone. What I said was if 600+whp is possible without a fueling upgrade and everyone seems to say upgraded twins have more left in em then we will should soon see Terry or Cobb make more power. Where in that statement do you see me bashing anyone? If anything I need to be bashing your reading comprehension.
    Really? Were you not comparing Terry and Cobb's tuning capabilities to Shiv's single turbo output? We're you not saying Terry and Cobb were "stuck" at the same power levels?

    From my Internet perspective it sure seemed like you were bashing their abilities to make the same power as Shiv. Click here to enlarge
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