Close

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 113
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    376
    Rep Points
    707.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Maybe if you're talking about throwing in 4.56s gears to match it might be livable but with a turbo platform on a motor that already has a good VE throughout it's power band I'd much rather have the torque at lower RPM with gearing to match. These cars run drama free 11.0s with 2nd gear launches and I think could go much faster with the right setup. Throw some big cams on and shift that power band up along with the drop in CR needed and it's going to become a total unresponsive slug during normal driving IMHO. Now if you're turbo limited sure then you have no other choice.
    Then it would becoming sticky's worst nightmare- a modern supra. 800+ hp and still 11s, lol.

    I guess it depends what you want. Dyno glory trailer queen or a reasonably reliable daily driven $50k car that can crack 10s under the right conditions.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,870.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BavarianBullet Click here to enlarge
    Then it would becoming sticky's worst nightmare- a modern supra. 800+ hp and still 11s, lol.

    I guess it depends what you want. Dyno glory trailer queen or a reasonably reliable daily driven $50k car that can crack 10s under the right conditions.
    That's a good point. If you're building a dedicated track car stretching the power band up really has no drawbacks. I just personally like being able to roll half way in to the gas at 1500rpm and see the boost gauge instantly jump up to 6-7psi and feel the car pull through traffic. Click here to enlarge

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,870.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    Reputation: Yes | No
    RE internals I'm not a metallurgist but the N54 piston sure looks cast to me. Weakest point seems to be the crown around the valve relief. I've seen at least two broken at that point. Rods look solid and much beefier than I expected.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,738
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Can be done but most of the internals will be upgraded and personally I would not call it N54. I would not call some fully built S54 engines S54 either tjough since they might not have a single stock S54 internal....

    Its a good thing the names are for the engine blocks not internals then huh lol

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Pretty sure I am in Mexico
    Posts
    918
    Rep Points
    930.0
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Says who? The whole long block seems to carry a distinct name by most manufacturers standards IIRC. Short Block at least.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Was anything provided as to why 8500 was picked?

    Would like to see it get that high with the single turbo but I doubt it.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Was anything provided as to why 8500 was picked?
    I guess because it could be done and it would make sure, the other dropped figure, 1000whp, could be reached.

    The whole figure dropping is ridiculous though. Who would want to build their 335i to those levels. Nobody.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Just seems big numbers are now being thrown around without any basis.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I guess because it could be done and it would make sure, the other dropped figure, 1000whp, could be reached.

    The whole figure dropping is ridiculous though. Who would want to build their 335i to those levels. Nobody.
    I'm curious why you think no one would want to build a 335i to those levels? There seems to be some idea that a 335 is some refined luxury car who is above all that tunerish dedicated drag cars stuff but supra's were more expensive for it's time than a 335 is now and plenty of those were pushed way past levels being said in this thread, same for the skyline. In fact neither the 8500rpm redline nor the 1000whp numbers thrown around as high numbers to achieve on the N54 are particularly impressive given past I6's of similar displacement. Not to say when Shiv reaches these benchmarks it will be a small feat but just saying there isn't any reason aside from the fueling(which he says he has a solution for) to doubt the ability for those numbers to be reached. In fact a certain 3L I6 ran a 6.99@193 while making over 1500+hp@10,000+rpms on a stock block with only rods and pistons upgraded.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    Not to say when Shiv reaches these benchmarks
    So now it's when eh?
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So now it's when eh?
    Lol I actually wrote if originally but went back and changed it to when, and new that would get a response.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I'm curious why you think no one would want to build a 335i to those levels? There seems to be some idea that a 335 is some refined luxury car who is above all that tunerish dedicated drag cars stuff but supra's were more expensive for it's time than a 335 is now and plenty of those were pushed way past levels being said in this thread, same for the skyline. In fact neither the 8500rpm redline nor the 1000whp numbers thrown around as high numbers to achieve on the N54 are particularly impressive given past I6's of similar displacement. Not to say when Shiv reaches these benchmarks it will be a small feat but just saying there isn't any reason aside from the fueling(which he says he has a solution for) to doubt the ability for those numbers to be reached. In fact a certain 3L I6 ran a 6.99@193 while making over 1500+hp@10,000+rpms on a stock block with only rods and pistons upgraded.
    Well, "nobody" was a bit of generalization, but if 5 people out of a million wants to build a perfectly good car AGAIN with everything upgraded, that's close to nobody in relative terms. There is nobody that I'd know of so far, who would have bothered, despite the humongous figure of N54s out there. And as you said, it could be done - and more - if someone had the money and motivation. Those ooohs and aaahs of the youngsters who are having wet dreams of cars that some oddballs build are a bit funny.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    I'm curious why you think no one would want to build a 335i to those levels? There seems to be some idea that a 335 is some refined luxury car who is above all that tunerish dedicated drag cars stuff but supra's were more expensive for it's time than a 335 is now and plenty of those were pushed way past levels being said in this thread, same for the skyline. In fact neither the 8500rpm redline nor the 1000whp numbers thrown around as high numbers to achieve on the N54 are particularly impressive given past I6's of similar displacement. Not to say when Shiv reaches these benchmarks it will be a small feat but just saying there isn't any reason aside from the fueling(which he says he has a solution for) to doubt the ability for those numbers to be reached. In fact a certain 3L I6 ran a 6.99@193 while making over 1500+hp@10,000+rpms on a stock block with only rods and pistons upgraded.
    Still waiting to see this magical shiv fuel system. Is it not on the car now?


  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Still waiting to see this magical shiv fuel system. Is it not on the car now?
    Something has been done for fueling already, but 1000whp might need to have an additional fuel rail.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,888
    Rep Points
    1,422.5
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    15


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Something has been done for fueling already, but 1000whp might need to have an additional fuel rail.
    Really. Are the dynos he has been posting with the fuel upgrade on the car?


  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,527
    Rep Points
    1,175.6
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    12


    Reputation: Yes | No
    is the fuel upgrade even greater fuel pressure and a fix to the lpfp to keep up ?
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Still waiting to see this magical shiv fuel system. Is it not on the car now?
    Well he said he has done one part of his upgrades on his car and has a second waiting for when he needs it. He mist have done something right as before this everyone was saying the fuel system was tapped out around 500whp and he's about 130whp over that now and only hasn't gone higher because of the map sensor. As for him showing online what it is I hope he's realized that is not the right approach, do what you do and show people you can make it work. If they want it they can come to you to get it, no need to feed all your R&D to the competition so they can criticize it all while trying their damnedest to copy it lol.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Well, "nobody" was a bit of generalization, but if 5 people out of a million wants to build a perfectly good car AGAIN with everything upgraded, that's close to nobody in relative terms. There is nobody that I'd know of so far, who would have bothered, despite the humongous figure of N54s out there. And as you said, it could be done - and more - if someone had the money and motivation. Those ooohs and aaahs of the youngsters who are having wet dreams of cars that some oddballs build are a bit funny.
    Well in that case almost nobody even tunes these cars at all. I'm sure the modified 335's are a very small % of the total 335i's out there but that will change with time. As the cars value comes down more buyers whom will be willing and able to mod the $#@! out of them will emerge. Besides for shiv making a 1,000whp N54 isn't because he thinks he is gonna get hundreds of people buying that level of power but more as a proof of concept. To show that it can be done and that his mods and tunes are fundamentally sound. Ie if he can make 1,000whp@8,500rpm live fine my 600-700whp should be no problem. Not to mention the recognition that projects like that bring his company, you can pay for the sort of advertising his single has gotten and will get. Hell look at sticky he hates shiv but he had no choice really to put up the single info on the front page and make an article about it and everything, you know that had to burn but what can he do really? The N54 section is the most popular on here by far and this is the biggest development for the N54 by far so it gets his name out there.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    1,895
    Rep Points
    771.0
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
    As for him showing online what it is I hope he's realized that is not the right approach, do what you do and show people you can make it work. If they want it they can come to you to get it, no need to feed all your R&D to the competition so they can criticize it all while trying their damnedest to copy it lol.
    this is the approach every performance shop should take. some do, and it is why they are blasted/bashed by people who want technical info and the company wont 'put out.' then some of those companies just up and leave (the forum and internet advertising) as to not further let their name go out there, good or bad, seen it happen to a few myself. honestly, the ones who don't either are confident that an imitator will fail at some key step not shown, or that the imitation will be so far off in terms of quality and performance that they are happy to release detailed/technical product info.
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,385
    Rep Points
    375.4
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    4


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    this is the approach every performance shop should take. some do, and it is why they are blasted/bashed by people who want technical info and the company wont 'put out.' then some of those companies just up and leave (the forum and internet advertising) as to not further let their name go out there, good or bad, seen it happen to a few myself. honestly, the ones who don't either are confident that an imitator will fail at some key step not shown, or that the imitation will be so far off in terms of quality and performance that they are happy to release detailed/technical product info.
    Forget all that he simply doesn't need to tell anyone $#@!, his customers ultimately care about results and he's providing plenty of that and the rest of the people just want to tear down those who do what they can't. It reminds me of a quote I read recently "those who say it can't be done shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it".

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SF Bay, CA
    Posts
    75
    Rep Points
    56.2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    New pictures posted up yesterday comparing the 4G63 piston and rod assembly to the N54. Good to finally see up the N54's skirt.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    Hi guys,
    Sean@FFTEC and I spent a good bit of time mulling over the internals of the stock (11/07 production) N54 that we tore down last week. We've already learned quite a bit in the process. But we also have many more questions that we are looking to get answered. But that is for another time Click here to enlarge


    In the meantime, we wanted to compare the N54 piston/rod assembly with something that we are VERY familiar with, the Mitsu Evo 4G63! Both Sean and I have spent years tuning stock (and built) 4G63s. Often running the same exact turbocharger we are using in my single turbo 335. So comparing the design of the two piston/rod assemblies makes sense. Next to getting the parts stress tested and properly analyzed (which is in the works), this is a good approach to getting an idea of what is (and isn't) possible with a completely stock N54 engine.


    A stock 4G63, for instance, can reliably (i.e., long term) support 450lbft of torque before the rods buckle/bend. Which is ~115lbft/rod. All other things equal, if it had 6 cylinders, it should be able to support well over 600lb-ft of torque. Of course, not all other things are equal (stroke, piston speed, max revs, etc,.) Nonetheless, this is a decent starting point since we don't have any reasons to think that the n54 isn't stronger than the 4G63, stock for stock. If that is the case, the BMW will enjoy a 50% output advantage due to 50% larger displacement and 50% more pistons/rods. But still, it's a good idea to exercise restraint when running high midrange boost/torque pressures. Those looking to run 3.5bar map sensors just so they can run 22+psi of boost at peak torque might want to think twice Click here to enlarge


    N54 (Left) vs 4g63 (Right)
    Click here to enlarge
    It's nice to see that the N54 rod is considerably thicker and wider than the 4G63. The caps are also cracked which means that they are forged with the rest of the rod and literally cracked apart into 2 pieces. Advantages of this approach is improved strength/rigidity.


    Click here to enlarge
    One thing we found interesting is how tapered the N54 rod is at the small end where it mates with the wrist pin. Maybe this is done to save weigh or reduce friction. But it would be our first point of concern when running higher rev limits or mis-shifting.
    It's also interesting to see the bearing width on the big end of the rod (where it connects to crankshaft). It's considerably narrower than that of the 4G63. Which, all things equal, would mean less of a hydraulic "buffer" during detonation events. However, this narrow bearing design seems to be common among newer engines such as the Evo X's 4B11T engine which, as many know, can hold BIG power. So this narrow bearing doesn't necessary mean a weaker engine. It's also worth noting at the N54 crankshaft bearing surface (not shown) is beautifully polished and machined. It looks like an Evo crankshaft AFTER it has been sent out to be polished! There is no doubt that the tolerance level and general fit/finish on the BMW engine is in a class by itself.


    Click here to enlarge
    Nice to see the N54 use a snap ring on both sides of the wrist pin. Not so with the 4G63.


    Click here to enlarge
    Another angle showing the rod taper at the wrist pin.


    Click here to enlarge
    The N54 piston has a slightly smaller skirt. Likely for reducing friction/rotational weight.


    Click here to enlarge
    Like the 4G63, the N54 piston has nice fat ring lands. This is typical of a solid motor built for big boost. The 4G63 runs ~20psi boost from the factory, btw.


    Over the next couple of weeks, we will be running some revealing tests on the stock pistons and rods. Tests that will give us a very clear indication of what kind of powers they can reliably support. We will run the same tests on the 4G63 piston/rods which will give us something to compare it to.


    Very exciting times!

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas, United States
    Posts
    3,053
    Rep Points
    1,236.6
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Wow, he mentions wanting to reach 8500RPM one day on the N54 platform and people become upset and negative.

    Obviously this doesn't happen overnight? And no, building a motor isn't just a "wet dream" for "youngsters". Although I can see the point about a bunch of clueless people posting but not ever going for it.

    My VG is going to see 8500RPM reliably, and hopefully one day I can say the same for my N54. And what is wrong with dreaming anyway?

    At least Shiv is pushing this $#@! forward instead of following the "its just a N54, needs to stay stock frame turbos, its worthless to build" mentality...

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    919
    Rep Points
    778.4
    Mentioned
    42 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8



    Reputation: Yes | No
    First things first: before you build N54 to run 8,500 rpms, you'd need to do some extensive VANOS tuning. Correct me if I am wrong, but Procede has no control over VANOS. I don't event think that the OEM Vanos components actually work at those engine speeds.

    Next, yeah, the N54 rods have superb design! Cracked forged rods are the way to go, but Shiv's explanation about why the rods are cracked is bit misleading... Cracking off the rod cap from the rod piece creates a unique area full of miniature ridges and dimples on the mating surfaces between the rod end and the rod cap. Once the rod caps are installed, the ridges on the rod mate precisely with their corresponding holes on the rod cap and vice versa. The result is a situation where the rod caps are a lot less likely to shift and slide off their designated position and damage the bearings which ultimately will lead to all kinds of engine problems.

    In regular 2-piece rods (Mitsu rods shown above), the mating surface between the rod cap and the rod end is machined flat and it is the pure pressure of the bolts that keep the rod caps from sliding sideways. This is not optimal for high output engines because during the power stroke, the rods can "walk" as the caps slide sideways due to bolt stretching.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas, United States
    Posts
    3,053
    Rep Points
    1,236.6
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    13


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    In regular 2-piece rods (Mitsu rods shown above), the mating surface between the rod cap and the rod end is machined flat and it is the pure pressure of the bolts that keep the rod caps from sliding sideways. This is not optimal for high output engines because during the power stroke, the rods can "walk" as the caps slide sideways due to bolt stretching.
    Likely why a lot of Evo guys drop their oil pans and install strengthened rod bolts.

    I agree that even hitting 8,000RPM in the N54 is going to take a lot more thought, hardware and software development. Honestly I'm not really expecting anything or any sort of time-frame, I'm just happy to see someone that has the passion to keep pushing things forward for this platform. There's nothing wrong with being excited and N54 could use some valve-train development.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,125
    Rep Points
    31,300.6
    Mentioned
    2055 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    314


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by (-(ellblazer420 Click here to enlarge
    New pictures posted up yesterday comparing the 4G63 piston and rod assembly to the N54. Good to finally see up the N54's skirt.
    They need to chill out a little on those watermarks.
    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale: http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •