Close

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 58
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    DZ, I guess I donít know what you are trying to say. Any maxed trims are due to tuning not fuel cap, MAF, etc. Yes, piggys will run higher positive trims (for high hp apps) to stay clear of the low pressure triggerÖ but I think Shiv did 500+ on pumpÖ thatís pretty good when comparing camps. Cobb will have some intermediate steps before reaching fuel ceiling also on the tuning side getting outside BMW calcsÖ both have some hurdles in reaching the actual flow cap, which will happen when trims are within the limits.

    I maxed fuel trims the other day, by accident, and boy the car was fast, fast at 13+ AFR. I can see how some of the rudimentary tuning in the past yielded such fast times.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    DZ, I guess I don’t know what you are trying to say. Any maxed trims are due to tuning not fuel cap, MAF, etc. Yes, piggys will run higher positive trims (for high hp apps) to stay clear of the low pressure trigger… but I think Shiv did 500+ on pump… that’s pretty good when comparing camps. Cobb will have some intermediate steps before reaching fuel ceiling also on the tuning side getting outside BMW calcs… both have some hurdles in reaching the actual flow cap, which will happen when trims are within the limits.

    I maxed fuel trims the other day, by accident, and boy the car was fast, fast at 13+ AFR. I can see how some of the rudimentary tuning in the past yielded such fast times.
    I don't see why its that hard to understand what I'm saying. Maxed trims aren't due to tuning. They're showing that for the stock load calibration on which a piggyback is stacked the fuel trims are being pushed towards the limit of their adjustment range as o2 widebands are telling the DME it needs to add more fuel, on top of what the fuel pressure on its own is adding, and the DME basically saying, hey, i'll give you a 34% adjustment range, have at it, until you cap out

    God, you're saying 500+ on pump...how much torque and where was that 500 made? Did he do it with 500wtq holding across? No. He's keeping torque low and flat to redline so the power keeps rising to redline and that's where he was making 500whp on pump...

    The only hurdles in terms of fueling with a flash TODAY is to properly calibrate the MAF values into the DME. Basically scaling. There is no hardware limitations exposed by the tuning approach where the DME is left calibrated for stock values and then told to run at much higher MAF values without it knowing it. We're basically lucky we can squeeze as much as we do with the piggies because BMW has a +34% trim adjustment range. A lot of cars can go up to maybe 10-15% only and would cap out much sooner until reflashed with new load targets.

    Why would you think 13AFR would be slow. Peak torque is at 13.5AFR with gasoline. Going richer is basically done to keep things safe but to be honest I'm not a huge believer in that safety margin given DI's characteristics. However, BMW on the 1M stock tune also hits 12s from the factory so there must be a reason.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Sounds like you are saying piggys are stuck with stock fueling baseÖ this isnít true, I increased mine the other day by >30% by remapping pressure bias and could show logs on back to back pulls with identical boost settings. One, trims are maxed and the other trims are close to 0.

    Where the hp is made doesn't matter. I remember like 520ish... i think, on 94oct no meth.

    I know 13ish AFR is fast, but didnít expect by how muchÖ this was all by accident though and didnít realize what happened until viewing the log, which I checked immediately thank god. I think we can go leaner also, but I donít want to be the first.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like you are saying piggys are stuck with stock fueling base… this isn’t true, I increased mine the other day by >30% by remapping pressure bias and could show logs on back to back pulls with identical boost settings. One, trims are maxed and the other trims are close to 0.
    If you could run with higher than stock turbos that could push the piggy fuel limits you'd quickly realize what I'm talking about given your logging appetite Click here to enlarge

    You can definitly zero out your trims if you raise fuel pressure...you're adding more fuel volume so DME won't require trims to be raised the same...this is exactly what happens when you don't run meth and then run meth...trims will come down as additional fueling is coming in from a secondary source

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,913
    Rep Points
    1,353.4
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    I increased mine the other day by >30% by remapping pressure bias and could show logs on back to back pulls with identical boost settings.
    which pressure bias? fuel pressure? how?

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    yeah 654, the open loop table for procede.

    I understand DZ, but this is still tuning related. I don't think other RBers are having any issues with low pressure codes though... on procede at least. This would be more apparent in ATs.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    65
    Rep Points
    2.1
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    7 out of 12 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No

    This post by robert is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.


    Last edited by robert; 03-15-2012 at 05:13 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    yeah 654, the open loop table for procede.

    I understand DZ, but this is still tuning related. I don't think other RBers are having any issues with low pressure codes though... on procede at least. This would be more apparent in ATs.
    I never even mentioned RBers having low fuel pressure codes. When did I say that? I never had them either when I was running it.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robert Click here to enlarge
    Who am I to question math, BUT our standard PWM kit (with two 1.0mm nozzles) flows 800-850cc/min. This has been verified by myself and a number of customers. Doubling that doesn't double flow since the pump's inlet tube diameter starts to be the restriction. In order to flow a full 1600cc, that requires a larger ID which requires a trunk mount since it would otherwise have to "T" into the WW washer line. Which is why I'm seeing 1300-1350cc/min in my car. These are the facts. I cannot change them Click here to enlarge

    shiv <--

    PS. I'm also running the "B" version of the Aquamist valve which is linear to 1600cc/min. As tested by myself (among others). Not sure where this idea of these valves being restrictive comes from.
    Who am I to question that you're running only one pump?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Just to add to this whole piggy fueling, am I the only one that realizes the ECU has long term fuel trims as well? The more the ecu "adapts" the more negative my trims get. Perhaps it's the LTFTs doing its thing instead of this "open loop fueling" aka fuel pressure.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,872.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by robert Click here to enlarge
    Who am I to question math, BUT our standard PWM kit (with two 1.0mm nozzles) flows 800-850cc/min. This has been verified by myself and a number of customers. Doubling that doesn't double flow since the pump's inlet tube diameter starts to be the restriction. In order to flow a full 1600cc, that requires a larger ID which requires a trunk mount since it would otherwise have to "T" into the WW washer line. Which is why I'm seeing 1300-1350cc/min in my car. These are the facts. I cannot change them Click here to enlarge

    shiv <--

    PS. I'm also running the "B" version of the Aquamist valve which is linear to 1600cc/min. As tested by myself (among others). Not sure where this idea of these valves being restrictive comes from.
    Are you running a single or dual meth pump setup? Tested your actual meth pressure with all 4 nozzles?

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Look DZ, you are stating that piggies max trims due to fuel limitsÖ NO, itís due to tuning parameters that can be changed. The limit, my understanding, is the low pressure code. But you stated this isnít an issue. So at the current power levels there doesnít seem to be a limit with flashes or piggies. I donít think Cobb has a 500hp+ map yet, so in actuality procede has flowed the highest fuel volume to date.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    PS a single 1mm nozzle is good for 600cc. If you're only getting 1300 ml with 4 of those nozzles that pump sucks something awful.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,872.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    Reputation: Yes | No
    A single 5800 series pump @ 14v can barely keep up 180psi with a single CM10. With dual CM10s it drops significantly. But having a big restrictive solenoid valve certainly doesn't help the pressure situation so then you need to go larger on the nozzles to get the volume. But then atomization suffers so to counter act that you go with smaller nozzles but more of them. Anyway it all makes perfect sense. If I believed the restrictive high speed solenoid offered any real advantage I'd offer them. God knows the profit margin would be better than the $50 solenoid we sell now. But since the system generally runs at 100% duty cycle anyway and the fueling system is closed loop I've never found the need to precisely meter lower methanol volumes to justify all the additional cost.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    A single 5800 series pump @ 14v can barely keep up 180psi with a single CM10. With dual CM10s it drops significantly. But having a big restrictive solenoid valve certainly doesn't help the pressure situation so then you need to go larger on the nozzles to get the volume. But then atomization suffers so to counter act that you go with smaller nozzles but more of them. Anyway it all makes perfect sense. If I believed the restrictive high speed solenoid offered any real advantage I'd offer them. God knows the profit margin would be better than the $50 solenoid we sell now. But since the system generally runs at 100% duty cycle anyway and the fueling system is closed loop I've never found the need to precisely meter lower methanol volumes to justify all the additional cost.
    Unless you simply require meth at 12.25 psi part throttle heh. My inferior kit keeps timing on all 6 cylinders perfectly happy. Click here to enlarge

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    A single 5800 series pump @ 14v can barely keep up 180psi with a single CM10. With dual CM10s it drops significantly. But having a big restrictive solenoid valve certainly doesn't help the pressure situation so then you need to go larger on the nozzles to get the volume. But then atomization suffers so to counter act that you go with smaller nozzles but more of them. Anyway it all makes perfect sense. If I believed the restrictive high speed solenoid offered any real advantage I'd offer them. God knows the profit margin would be better than the $50 solenoid we sell now. But since the system generally runs at 100% duty cycle anyway and the fueling system is closed loop I've never found the need to precisely meter lower methanol volumes to justify all the additional cost.
    Yep, makes sense. On John's (ultimateracing335i) car we ended up making 15whp more by unplugging the 2nd CM10 nozzle from his meth setup. He used to run 2 with the JB4 and procede. Unplugging 1 made the power go up. He was running 100% meth on the dyno so it wasn't additional water that was causing the drop in power. It wasn't rich AFRs either as DME corrects for them and we were logging using his Innovate LM-1 external wideband on the car as well as Cobb AP's datalogging.

    On my car I also find better results with a single CM10 now as opposed to dual nozzles on the piggies. Cobb is running a single 1.0mm and a single 0.9mm on their pump+meth setup currently as well which is around ~700-750ml/min at full flow?

    I've actually done a couple pulls where my meth kit failed me on the race tune (line came off!). Timing was heavily corrected by the DME across the engine but the big question is was it reactive to knock OR pro-active due to sensing EGTs going up. In any case, I was pretty happy with that built-in failsafe Click here to enlarge but my HFS-4 is here today, haven't gotten home yet to wire it up and try it, and I'll be wiring in their hardware failsafe in for safety (pulls the wg line down basically, no boost dump valve).

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Reputation: Yes | No
    I just noticed Robert got knocked below 0 in reps... I guess no more Q&A with the Vishnu camp allowed on here. I'm sure sticky also limited Shiv's post amount... oh well, it does open up some good convo when Shiv can post.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Who neg repped him? C'mon guys, nothing wrong with the last post

    Pos repped

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    7,980
    Rep Points
    8,872.8
    Mentioned
    626 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    89


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Poor guy.. I'll positive rep him. But again why isn't Shiv using his own account?!

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Look DZ, you are stating that piggies max trims due to fuel limitsÖ NO, itís due to tuning parameters that can be changed. The limit, my understanding, is the low pressure code. But you stated this isnít an issue. So at the current power levels there doesnít seem to be a limit with flashes or piggies. I donít think Cobb has a 500hp+ map yet, so in actuality procede has flowed the highest fuel volume to date.
    If i do a 500wheel dyno with trims legit and no meth will that make you a believer lol open your eyes man or just get nos or single turbo pr RBs and go for that 500 on race gas only...let me know how it goes

  21. #46
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,640
    Rep Points
    2,149.8
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22


    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Who neg repped him? C'mon guys, nothing wrong with the last post

    Pos repped
    Wasn't me! I can't rep anyone yet =P
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    If i do a 500wheel dyno with trims legit and no meth will that make you a believer lol open your eyes man or just get nos or single turbo pr RBs and go for that 500 on race gas only...let me know how it goes
    Show me this on pump gas and I'll believe!

    I will be perfectly content with 450-460 whp with 93 pump on the street. Rob can take his time with the N20 sensor and getting big power on meth/race.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,676
    Rep Points
    3,291.4
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Not on RBs though due to EGTs and a relatively small stock exhaust housing...on a big single i'm sure it'd be piece of cake once hardware calibration in the dme is done

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,089
    Rep Points
    999.1
    Mentioned
    104 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    10


    Reputation: Yes | No
    It's only a matter of time before Cobb gets cracking on a single turbo setup of some kind.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Poor guy.. I'll positive rep him. But again why isn't Shiv using his own account?!
    this is why i just negged. hell you were banned for being accused of it, he doesnt get free reign here. we welcome discussion, but follow the rules

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •