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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Not so sure about that, shiv was running 94 Oct according to his thread. I think that number from HPF is on 91 Oct according to the owner of the car and what he posted on the other forum, maybe HPF can provide that detail to clear things up a bit.
    says 94 octane, but im betting much higher given his history of octane claims

  2. #27
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    Ha I'm hoping HPF can get this done without 4 meth nozzles like shiv is proposing, to me thats not the most reliable setup...
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Ha I'm hoping HPF can get this done without 4 meth nozzles like shiv is proposing, to me thats not the most reliable setup...
    They're currently using the procede. I don't see how.
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  4. #29
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    Maybe they'll find they need a different tuning solution, like they found they needed a new manifold. How will they control the second fuel rail? Can the procede do that?
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  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Maybe they'll find they need a different tuning solution, like they found they needed a new manifold. How will they control the second fuel rail? Can the procede do that?
    Secondary fueling isn't required at these power levels if Cobb was used for high load tuning. What would be required is to rescale the MAF, WGDC and Boost/PID tables, Torque Limiters and off you go. Basically re-calibration to tell the DME there's a higher mass air flow going on. Why they choose procede hackery and witchcraft boggles me. But I guess might as well if the customer already has that tune.

    I'm sure and can bet anything AFR traces will no doubt be screwed especially down low below 4k rpm just like before and given what I know now about MAF scaling in the DME there's NO way they can squeeze more fuel out of the car without flashing the MAF limiter tables. PERIOD! The car just won't provide more fuel than the stock fuel ceiling is capped at no matter what $#@!ed up signal you end up giving it back.

    Aside: I'm banned on e90post again it seems. This time it was for solely participating in Shiv's threads at all. I wasn't even arguing. That place is bull$#@! and a half. I emailed Jason 4 times to see if my ban is permanent or not. Dude doesn't even have the courtesy to respond. $400/month ($13/day) in vendor fees from Shiv is really important to Jason it seems...$#@! him

    Dude even goes on to tell me on PMs that if I say I was banned for no reason on "other" forums he'll provide EVIDENCE I was warned not to participate in Shiv's threads. Warned for what, for participating in discussions and discussing valid technical aspects and shortcomings? Sure, ban me, $#@! you jason@e90post and your $13/day from Shiv
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 03-15-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Maybe they'll find they need a different tuning solution, like they found they needed a new manifold. How will they control the second fuel rail? Can the procede do that?
    Well, currently there IS no other tuning solution. From the flash tuners, the only one I can remotely think of developing support for big single turbos is COBB.
    But how large do you expect the single turbo market to be? Maybe 50 customers across the whole USA? Only a tiny percentage of all N54 owners will upgrade the turbos at all. Most of those will opt for a solution à la RBs (ease of installation - worldwide clients vs in-shop installation of single kits, reasonable power increase). Only hardcore modders will get the singles. Knowing that they'll have to build the engine sooner or later just like the tranny.

    So is this worth the R&D COBB would have to put in it? And as in every high hp engine application, engines WILL be lost down the way. Now does a tuner want to be implied in these cases and be subject to discussion, even when the catastrophic failure is not tune related? I'm sceptic.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Aside: I'm banned on e90post again it seems. This time it was for solely participating in Shiv's threads at all. I wasn't even arguing. That place is bull$#@! and a half. I emailed Jason 4 times to see if my ban is permanent or not. Dude doesn't even have the courtesy to respond. $400/month ($13/day) in vendor fees from Shiv is really important to Jason it seems...$#@! him

    Dude even goes on to tell me on PMs that if I say I was banned for no reason on "other" forums he'll provide EVIDENCE I was warned not to participate in Shiv's threads. Warned for what, for participating in discussions and discussing valid technical aspects and shortcomings? Sure, ban me, $#@! you jason@e90post and your $13/day from Shiv
    HPF is way better off getting with someone else, not only for actual tuning, but to be associated with such filth wont go over well for very long.

  8. #33
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    Tell people to come here....that's how I found this place, word of mouth.

    That sucks about being banned...

    Btw I agree the single market will be small but we'll see who jumps on board. Cobb seems pretty dedicated to the platform right now, if they start tuning for rb's (which I think they are), maybe they'll get into the single market.
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  9. #34
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    Sorry to hear about the ban, I will miss you Click here to enlarge

    About Cobb versus procede for single turbo… it would be a lot of work for Cobb and add further delays in getting to market. I personally think a stacked combo would be best to raise the base, but I think Shiv has some even cooler tricks for fueling in hardware and maybe software… we’ll see.

    MAF does NOT effect piggys. This is a calculated value, which doesn’t change with piggys.

  10. #35
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    Gayson can suck my balls and eat $#@!.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Sorry to hear about the ban, I will miss you Click here to enlarge

    About Cobb versus procede for single turbo… it would be a lot of work for Cobb and add further delays in getting to market. I personally think a stacked combo would be best to raise the base, but I think Shiv has some even cooler tricks for fueling in hardware and maybe software… we’ll see.

    MAF does NOT effect piggys. This is a calculated value, which doesn’t change with piggys.
    I won't miss e90post that's for sure. Really only ever valued its classifieds but $#@! it...

    In terms of MAF, you'll have to trust me on this for now, if you wish, but piggys DO have a real issue at hand as it relates to MAF. Here's how and I wish I can post this over "there" but in any case, given history, I know where it would go:

    Load based calibration on the N54 is MAF based and there are "calibrated" MAF limits that will limit torque, so called Torque Limiter tables. In a stock calibration/tune, Load is set to hit values from about 135 down low tapering to about 105 at redline. Load is related to MAF and MAF is related to both WGDC/Boost tables as well as Fuel tables. Fuel pressure is mapped separately but put that aside for now, doesn't matter, piggys can do whatever with HPFP pressure by $#@!ing with the high fuel pressure signal (this doesn't even matter much as raising fuel pressure, form discussion with the Continental/VDO engineer that @dubversion had and posted here, it was clear that raising HPFP pressure does provide for added fuel BUT the relationship of volume vs. pressure is an inverse one and exponential as pressure goes up. So more pressure doesn't mean more volume, it isn't linear).

    Now, if you leave the Load values at their stock calibration (a la what the piggies like procede are doing) MAF values will only be able to go as high as stock calibration for STOCK load is setup to go to. "True" MAF values are NEVER seen by the DME so piggies stay under the radar of DME's torque limiters as they end up simulating stock load targets.

    Now, what happens when you run higher MAF values then what the DME sees. Well, naturally, since this is a closed loop system you'd EXPECT to see fueling meet piggyback setup AFR targets based on their wideband biasing. However, the DME WILL ONLY hit the targets as long as they are within stock load calibration range AND BELOW MAF CAP/limits for that load. UNLESS you change that, the closed loop fuel control WILL NOT correct the fuel targets and add more fuel no matter what you do on the piggyback side to tell the DME that it should add more fuel. This is why o2 wideband screwing with the signal can get you more fuel due to closed loop BUT only to a certain point where you can add more fuel with raised fuel pressure on the piggy and then you're CAPPED!

    All this will be very clear when ATR comes out for those that wish to look and understand what the DME is actually doing for everything and WHY/HOW. Making any bold claims by anyone without understanding or having this complete picture in front of them is just huge bs really and just repeating what Shiv posted at one point in time on e90post or what his software is making you believe.

    In terms of big single turbo tuning, Cobb is definitely interested in getting into it as I already talked to them. RB street and race maps are also pretty solid right now but there's more work to push RBs with the 3.5bar MAP sensor.

    The ONLY way to go BIG power on this car with a large single and do it RIGHT is with a flash.

    There's A LOT going on at Cobb N54 related every single day, research wise and development wise, its just not being posted on the boards until its stable and finalized, unlike what Shiv is doing. He's installing kits on people's cars based on a couple dyno pulls, no EGT data, no all out 1/4 mile runs. Its bull$#@!. A real company that cares about their reputation and their customers would never go down that route. This isn't something Cobb said, its just my own personal opinion of them that I got in the past year or so dealing with them. Huge respect there.

    If any of the above MAF/fuel discussion is unclear to anyone I'll be happy to discuss it. But I won't do it on e90post anymore as that place is just full of shiv's ass and balls
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  12. #37
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    I'll move the above post into a new thread..
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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Ha I'm hoping HPF can get this done without 4 meth nozzles like shiv is proposing, to me thats not the most reliable setup...
    Isn't he already using them? 4 nozzles, 2 in each intercooler end tank.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Isn't he already using them? 4 nozzles, 2 in each intercooler end tank.
    I dunno is he? I was under the impression HPF wasn't using meth yet but I could be wrong.
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  15. #40
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    @dzenno - I totally agree with you on shiv installing kits to early. Unless he hasn't posted it (even though he seems to always post every update), it doesn't seem like he's done enough testing to release the kit to the public...he didn't even announce pricing! I'm surprised so many people are willing to be Guinea pigs to the development of this single turbo....
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  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    @dzenno - I totally agree with you on shiv installing kits to early. Unless he hasn't posted it (even though he seems to always post every update), it doesn't seem like he's done enough testing to release the kit to the public...he didn't even announce pricing! I'm surprised so many people are willing to be Guinea pigs to the development of this single turbo....
    I'm not surprised at all. N54 people have been itching for more power for a while now. Stock frame hybrids are great but not really a game changer like a 700hp N54 is. Shiv creates hype, documents results and continues to tease. It's working well obviously.

    I'm just waiting to see what high-quality manufacturers join the bandwagon... (Full Race twin-scroll manifold with EFR 7670 would be just about perfect on stock internals in my opinion)

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I dunno is he? I was under the impression HPF wasn't using meth yet but I could be wrong.
    Well that is what shiv is running i think, dunno about HPF
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    Only time will tell which is the best tune because as of right now cobb isn't ther yet
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    Well that is what shiv is running i think, dunno about HPF
    Lol if you read my original post I said I hope HPF doesn't have to run meth like shiv is proposing to do....
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    @dzenno - I totally agree with you on shiv installing kits to early. Unless he hasn't posted it (even though he seems to always post every update), it doesn't seem like he's done enough testing to release the kit to the public...he didn't even announce pricing! I'm surprised so many people are willing to be Guinea pigs to the development of this single turbo....
    uh, bingo. One really has to have the mod bug to want in this early on such a kit IMO.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    Lol if you read my original post I said I hope HPF doesn't have to run meth like shiv is proposing to do....
    Ah...my bad...well don't see how they will make any power with out at least as much meth as FBO cars run. I don't think fueling is THAT fixed.
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    HPF is way better off getting with someone else, not only for actual tuning, but to be associated with such filth wont go over well for very long.

    I begin to wonder, what would really HPF stand as a company for if they keep outsourcing everything?
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  23. #48
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    Companies outsource all kinds of stuff, I don't give HPF any grief over that and I'm not surprised. They sell a tuning solution, they have the knowledge and expertise to put together a overall package and stand behind it.
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  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    I begin to wonder, what would really HPF stand as a company for if they keep outsourcing everything?
    HPF does the marketing and selling part. They are the sales rats. That is where the money is made.

  25. #50
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    HPF Probably plans to do some sort of secondary injection which doesn't utilize the procede. I don't see anything wrong with this thought process, might as well use a tune that everyone already has for the lesser hp numbers.
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