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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
    I'm sure that will happen eventually. In the domestic world, you typically buy your supercharger kit and it comes with a Predator (or similar) handheld programmer with a pre-loaded map to reflash your ECU in your driveway, as soon as your install is complete. No tuning or adjustments necessary by the end-user.

    Now that's what I am talking about! VW/AUDI/Porsche had that type of turn-key tuning solutions for decades now! WTF are the BMW guys doing?... don't answer that. It was a rhetorical question... Long live the meth kits...
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  2. #27
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    This is the same shop who used to make manifolds for HPF and the owner is a member here. @Steed Speed

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    or just in time.. already had more $ invested than i originally wanted, and swapping turbos again and starting from scratch would not make for a happy wife, ie happy life Click here to enlarge
    lol...ssssshhhh. Don't tell her about that S/C.Click here to enlarge
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    lol...ssssshhhh. Don't tell her about that S/C.Click here to enlarge
    No need hiding game. He should just tell her it's a compressor for the car, something like A/C compressor. And it makes car cooler.Click here to enlarge

  5. #30
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Now this is the reason we've started working on the single turbo tuning hardware "just in case" someone comes out with a great manifold. Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    No need hiding game. He should just tell her it's a compressor for the car, something like A/C compressor. And it makes car cooler.Click here to enlarge
    I like that.Click here to enlarge
    Never thought I would see the day...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Life is so much more fun with a nemesis. I miss Shiv. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Now this is the reason we've started working on the single turbo tuning hardware "just in case" someone comes out with a great manifold. Click here to enlarge
    Their is another company working on a twin scroll kit, not just manifold.


  8. #33
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    I saw this the other day on SteedSpeeds website...apparently a lot of Cummins guys run their manifolds for the diesels, its the best money can buy, and it doesnt shrink/warp/crack like the stock manifold or even 2 and 3 piece units.


    Diesels put enormous stress on their manifolds, and so far everyone whos had a SS manifold has not had one bad thing to say about it. One will be finding its way onto the ACM tow rig shortly Click here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
    lol...ssssshhhh. Don't tell her about that S/C.Click here to enlarge
    she knows, she has driven AKHs car, with or w/o approval, that mod is getting done. I pick and choose fights, and thats one that ill never shy away from Click here to enlarge

  10. #35
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I posted on the other forum but would rather get into a technical discussion here... I talked w steed back in the fall on this manifold and at that point they were doing a standard twin scroll. I expressed some things to him some that needed to be done for ease of tuning and ecm happiness and other things that would be on my wish list as Helix was interested in using his manifold in a single turbo kit, i have alluded to these things in some other posts.
    -02 sensor placement in the manifold for each bank
    -The ability to fit an internal gate between the compressor cover and the block or head- to use a factory wastegate actuator and to again ease in tuning. using a factory actuator would allow the stock and valet modes to be used on the cobb and make tuning so much easier.
    -a T3 and T4 option in the turbine flange area to be able to use what I feel are the best matched turbos for the engine which are the new GTX-r 3076(perfect match) and 3582 turbos(higher power option for the power junkies) internally gated.
    -The option to use external gates if they are needed but with the ability to close the ports off

    Its great to see they are most definitely going in the right direction... Now the question how much interest would there be for an accessory kit to complete the kit ie oil/coolant lines, intake and a downpipe?

  11. #36
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    sure looks like a promising year for the n54! i would not be surprised to see 700wheel from a large single by this year's end. the question is: which internal engine part breaks after repeated use/abuse?
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
    Mods: Check the Garage

  12. #37
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    Hmm $1000 shipped for what looks to be one hell of a manifold. Sounds like the way to go to me!

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    I posted on the other forum but would rather get into a technical discussion here... I talked w steed back in the fall on this manifold and at that point they were doing a standard twin scroll. I expressed some things to him some that needed to be done for ease of tuning and ecm happiness and other things that would be on my wish list as Helix was interested in using his manifold in a single turbo kit, i have alluded to these things in some other posts.
    -02 sensor placement in the manifold for each bank
    -The ability to fit an internal gate between the compressor cover and the block or head- to use a factory wastegate actuator and to again ease in tuning. using a factory actuator would allow the stock and valet modes to be used on the cobb and make tuning so much easier.
    -a T3 and T4 option in the turbine flange area to be able to use what I feel are the best matched turbos for the engine which are the new GTX-r 3076(perfect match) and 3582 turbos(higher power option for the power junkies) internally gated.
    -The option to use external gates if they are needed but with the ability to close the ports off

    Its great to see they are most definitely going in the right direction... Now the question how much interest would there be for an accessory kit to complete the kit ie oil/coolant lines, intake and a downpipe?
    I think to really see these kits take off there is a need for a complete kit. In addition to that your shop is perfectly equipped to provide a Cobb calibration for it as well making the kit 100% complete.

    In terms of turbos, talking to Rob he also said it'd be nice if the turbo was internally wastegated so it could be easily controlled with the DME without jumping through hoops much. Just rescale the WGDC table and be done with it fast!

    I like both the turbos you mentioned but the GTX3076R isn't a twinscroll...i think a T4 would be ideal for a twin scroll setup, what do u think?

    P.S. I shipped out that rear intake pipe today, should be there in 4-5 days
    Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I shipped out that rear intake pipe today, should be there in 4-5 days
    oOooOooooo, one-off deal?
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I think to really see these kits take off there is a need for a complete kit. In addition to that your shop is perfectly equipped to provide a Cobb calibration for it as well making the kit 100% complete.

    In terms of turbos, talking to Rob he also said it'd be nice if the turbo was internally wastegated so it could be easily controlled with the DME without jumping through hoops much. Just rescale the WGDC table and be done with it fast!

    I like both the turbos you mentioned but the GTX3076R isn't a twinscroll...i think a T4 would be ideal for a twin scroll setup, what do u think?

    P.S. I shipped out that rear intake pipe today, should be there in 4-5 days
    I spoke to Rob at length on this subject on why up to that point(prior to shivs successful attempt) no singles had been successful.
    If you understand how a turbine works it takes the exhaust energy 6 pulses in this case and applies it to the turbine wheel. In the case of a split scroll it seperates the banks into a divided housing
    leading to the turbine with 3 pulses each. The actual exhaust energy hasn't changed and neither has the turbine wheel(some oem turbos do have twin scroll turbine wheels) so what gives a twin scroll quicker spool? The difference lies in the turbine a/r in the case of a twin scroll the dividing wall does not reduce the a/r when it very well should ie a t3 .63 a/r in a twin scroll may be dual .28's effectively making it a .56 a/r now this for you geeks out there this is merely an example. In any case the end design is always a compromise of packaging and desired results. Parlaying this to the n54 with a desire to run dual o2's pre turbo and an internal gate with factory actuator preferably wastegating all 6 cylinders you would have to compromise with a common turbine on a twin scroll manifold.

    In an answer to another posters questions on the new EFR turbos, yes its cutting edge, yes theoretically they should be better and in some applications they are BUT the 2 turbos that would work in our case have surge lines(the left side of the compressor map) that lean drastically right, when you see this bottom end power "can" suffer as the turbo is susceptible to surge. The compressor wheels I like on this car while trying to maintain a good bottom end power level are: gtx-r 3076-3852 the Borg Warner batmowheel s258 and the old school t61!
    Last edited by TurboBullett; 03-05-2012 at 01:01 PM.

  16. #41
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    Having talked to Rob@Cobb about the turbo choice and realizing that internally gated would be easiest to implement quickly and Steed indicating T4 EFR twin scrolls are available internally gated and even with a built-in bypass valve in them I think that leads me towards the EFR twin scrolls as my personal favourite.

    So, how about this...i'm sure its not cheap but I don't think it gets better than this for the 5-800hp range: BorgWarner EFR 8374...

    http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...374-turbo.html

    Click here to enlarge

    Compressor Specifications

    • Compressor Type: Forged-Milled Wheel (FMW) Extended Tip
    • Compressor Wheel OD (exducer): 83mm
    • Compressor Wheel Inducer: 62.6mm
    • Max Flow Rate: 79 lb/min
    • Built-in BOV: All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV.
    • Compressor Housing Connections:
      • Inlet: 4" Ported Shroud Hose Coupler
      • Outlet: 2.5" Hose Coupler w/ integrated Vband option

    Turbine Specifications

    • Turbine Type: Low Inertia Gamma-Ti Turbine Wheel
    • Turbine Wheel OD: 74mm
    • Stainless Steel Investment cast Housing - The EFR 8374 is available in (3) different turbine housing configurations:
      • 0.83 A/R T3 undivided (Internal WG)
      • 0.92 A/R T4 twinscroll (Internal WG)
      • 1.05 A/R T4 twinscroll (external WG)
    • Turbine outlet: GT-Vband (aka small 3" vband) ~92mm OD for all EFR turbos

    Features

    • Dual Row Ceramic Ball Bearings - lowest friction and fastest spool/response, most extreme durability, built-in oil control orifice - (aka oil restrictor) **no restrictor can be used with EFR turbos
    • Watercooled Center Section - watercooling is recommended, 14mm banjo bolts
    • Double seals on both turbine and compressor end for extreme durability and resistance to any oil seepage
    • Boost Control Solenoid Valve Integrated to Compressor Housing
    • Integrated Speed Sensor mounting provisions
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    I posted on the other forum but would rather get into a technical discussion here... I talked w steed back in the fall on this manifold and at that point they were doing a standard twin scroll. I expressed some things to him some that needed to be done for ease of tuning and ecm happiness and other things that would be on my wish list as Helix was interested in using his manifold in a single turbo kit, i have alluded to these things in some other posts.
    -02 sensor placement in the manifold for each bank
    -The ability to fit an internal gate between the compressor cover and the block or head- to use a factory wastegate actuator and to again ease in tuning. using a factory actuator would allow the stock and valet modes to be used on the cobb and make tuning so much easier.
    -a T3 and T4 option in the turbine flange area to be able to use what I feel are the best matched turbos for the engine which are the new GTX-r 3076(perfect match) and 3582 turbos(higher power option for the power junkies) internally gated.
    -The option to use external gates if they are needed but with the ability to close the ports off

    Its great to see they are most definitely going in the right direction... Now the question how much interest would there be for an accessory kit to complete the kit ie oil/coolant lines, intake and a downpipe?

    You sir, have just made a perfect wish list. Click here to enlarge

    I know people love the bling factor (and sound factor) of an external gate, but I am really liking the idea of an internal setup on this car.

  18. #43
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    Considering I'm under warranty until 2015 I think RBs can fly under the radar for basic warranty claims. If I blow my motor even I'm not dumb enough to bring it to the dealer.

    If that happened, rag in gas tank, lighter, run.

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Having talked to Rob@Cobb about the turbo choice and realizing that internally gated would be easiest to implement quickly and Steed indicating T4 EFR twin scrolls are available internally gated and even with a built-in bypass valve in them I think that leads me towards the EFR twin scrolls as my personal favourite.

    So, how about this...i'm sure its not cheap but I don't think it gets better than this for the 5-800hp range: BorgWarner EFR 8374...

    http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...374-turbo.html

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...74turbo0-1.jpg

    Compressor Specifications

    • Compressor Type: Forged-Milled Wheel (FMW) Extended Tip
    • Compressor Wheel OD (exducer): 83mm
    • Compressor Wheel Inducer: 62.6mm
    • Max Flow Rate: 79 lb/min
    • Built-in BOV: All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV.
    • Compressor Housing Connections:
      • Inlet: 4" Ported Shroud Hose Coupler
      • Outlet: 2.5" Hose Coupler w/ integrated Vband option
    Turbine Specifications

    • Turbine Type: Low Inertia Gamma-Ti Turbine Wheel
    • Turbine Wheel OD: 74mm
    • Stainless Steel Investment cast Housing - The EFR 8374 is available in (3) different turbine housing configurations:
      • 0.83 A/R T3 undivided (Internal WG)
      • 0.92 A/R T4 twinscroll (Internal WG)
      • 1.05 A/R T4 twinscroll (external WG)
    • Turbine outlet: GT-Vband (aka small 3" vband) ~92mm OD for all EFR turbos
    Features

    • Dual Row Ceramic Ball Bearings - lowest friction and fastest spool/response, most extreme durability, built-in oil control orifice - (aka oil restrictor) **no restrictor can be used with EFR turbos
    • Watercooled Center Section - watercooling is recommended, 14mm banjo bolts
    • Double seals on both turbine and compressor end for extreme durability and resistance to any oil seepage
    • Boost Control Solenoid Valve Integrated to Compressor Housing
    • Integrated Speed Sensor mounting provisions

    Thats alot of turbo, good to 800hp. But the surge line leaves ALOT to be desired. However I do LOVE the fact that they undivide the housing to allow wastegating of both banks. As I said I really like what I see with the EFR's except for the surge lines which boggles me as the previous gen turbos ie s258 etc had a very wide compressor map on both sides! Anyone that doesn't understand what I'm talking about we can get a technical discussion going and I can explain it to you!

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Having talked to Rob@Cobb about the turbo choice and realizing that internally gated would be easiest to implement quickly and Steed indicating T4 EFR twin scrolls are available internally gated and even with a built-in bypass valve in them I think that leads me towards the EFR twin scrolls as my personal favourite.

    So, how about this...i'm sure its not cheap but I don't think it gets better than this for the 5-800hp range: BorgWarner EFR 8374...

    http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...374-turbo.html

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...74turbo0-1.jpg

    Compressor Specifications

    • Compressor Type: Forged-Milled Wheel (FMW) Extended Tip
    • Compressor Wheel OD (exducer): 83mm
    • Compressor Wheel Inducer: 62.6mm
    • Max Flow Rate: 79 lb/min
    • Built-in BOV: All EFR compressor housings incorporate an integrated BOV.
    • Compressor Housing Connections:
      • Inlet: 4" Ported Shroud Hose Coupler
      • Outlet: 2.5" Hose Coupler w/ integrated Vband option
    Turbine Specifications

    • Turbine Type: Low Inertia Gamma-Ti Turbine Wheel
    • Turbine Wheel OD: 74mm
    • Stainless Steel Investment cast Housing - The EFR 8374 is available in (3) different turbine housing configurations:
      • 0.83 A/R T3 undivided (Internal WG)
      • 0.92 A/R T4 twinscroll (Internal WG)
      • 1.05 A/R T4 twinscroll (external WG)
    • Turbine outlet: GT-Vband (aka small 3" vband) ~92mm OD for all EFR turbos
    Features

    • Dual Row Ceramic Ball Bearings - lowest friction and fastest spool/response, most extreme durability, built-in oil control orifice - (aka oil restrictor) **no restrictor can be used with EFR turbos
    • Watercooled Center Section - watercooling is recommended, 14mm banjo bolts
    • Double seals on both turbine and compressor end for extreme durability and resistance to any oil seepage
    • Boost Control Solenoid Valve Integrated to Compressor Housing
    • Integrated Speed Sensor mounting provisions
    LOL, that's a big boy. I was thinking a 7670, but that sucker right there will crap on some $#@!es, hard.

  21. #46
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    Also, regarding the stock actuator on internally gated turbo: the front and rear turbo use a different P/N on the actuator. The difference is the rod length (about 1.5" or so difference from what I recall). The longer one will probably be the ticket. Then you just need to have a new bracket fabbed up. Oh, speaking of which, the EFR bracket has the ability to rotate to different positions. That way, you don't have to worry about the bracket being in the wrong place when you clock the compressor & CHRA.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TurboBullett Click here to enlarge
    Thats alot of turbo, good to 800hp. But the surge line leaves ALOT to be desired. However I do LOVE the fact that they undivide the housing to allow wastegating of both banks. As I said I really like what I see with the EFR's except for the surge lines which boggles me as the previous gen turbos ie s258 etc had a very wide compressor map on both sides! Anyone that doesn't understand what I'm talking about we can get a technical discussion going and I can explain it to you!
    I won't pretend I know what you're trying to say but I "think" I get it. If you don't mind explaining it a bit or starting the discussion on it, here's the compressor map from the above EFR unit...

    BW EFR 8374:
    Click here to enlarge

    Smaller version, divided housing as well as internally gated, BW EFR 7670 (this was mentioned earlier above):
    Click here to enlarge



    And, a new one and maybe a really great contender (thanks to @jhershorin for bringing this one to my attention) the S300X 8875 with a T4 1.09 AR twin scroll, v-band....$799 Click here to enlarge only wish is it was internally gated, but the compressor map looks really nice in terms of what @TurboBullet is talking about, right?
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #48
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    Once the manifold and twin scroll turbo are purchased, what other hardware changes will be needed? Of course the post turbo piping to the hot side of the FMIC. Then, I assume a custom DP will be needed? Is that it? What about tuning? Other than Cobb ATP how are we going to tune this option?
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    I won't pretend I know what you're trying to say but I "think" I get it. If you don't mind explaining it a bit or starting the discussion on it, here's the compressor map from the above EFR unit...

    BW EFR 8374:
    Click here to enlarge

    Smaller version, divided housing as well as internally gated, BW EFR 7670 (this was mentioned earlier above):
    Click here to enlarge
    On the 8374 compressor map at 2.5 bar-22psi it will surge at less than 26lb/min or 260 HP what this means is you will get cavitation IF the turbo spools faster than the left side of the map. The problem with a turbo this size is you can have a laggy bottom end and do you really need 800hp potential?

    On the 7670 at 2.5 bar-22psi it will surge less than 19lb/min or 190hp. It has a much better bottom end potential ie better spool characteristics and less surge potential but the top end suffers at street able boost levels.

    What we need is something in the middle with the best of both worlds...

    Heres a great turbo old school Garrett t61 with a surge line at about 20lb/min 200hp and 700hp potential ie a better match to the application!Click here to enlarge

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    ^ word...

    Surge is basically a compressor stalling. Think of an airplane tilted too aggressively during takeoff, a steep angle of attack, and the airplane is not moving fast enough. It will lose lift, that is called stall. Compressor blades undergo the same phenomena and when you pass the surge line, you are trying to create a very low flow condition at a high pressure ratio, which it cannot do. Like trying to fly a big airplane at a 45 degree angle at only 50 mph.


    Also, when I look at exhaust manifold designs the first think I look at, well second thing after overall flow characteristics is wastegate placement. Too many manifolds out there, I mean TOO MANY put the wastegates in the stupidest postions. Some people put them on one side of the manifold on a twin scroll, some tilt the entry of the wastegate into the flow, basically a Y pipe pointing backwards, etc.. I have seen some seriously ass backwards $#@! that I just ask myself, one google searth would have fixed those basic things.

    Twin scroll designs are very sensitive to pulse placement. If you're gonna put together any type of turbo manifold and you want it to have nice smooth bends with constant area piping, at least put the right pulse placement (primary feeds) into the collector. Because if you don't you might as well just make a log style header and save tons of money, weight, and space.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

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