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  1. #26
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    It was such a pleasure driving my car with stock catback on. makes me wish i never got rid of the Miltek though. that was honestly the perfect exhaust, no drone and slightly louder than stock, but you would never know it if you didnt, know it. worth looking into if someone REALLY wants a performance catback and no drone

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully but if the RBs are anything like the 15G 19psi at redline will be max..far right of the compressor map, talking about sea level...midrange it looks like 27.5psi could be had at the edge in the middle...estimating it i think it'll be possibly 24-26psi midrange to 6k rpm tapering to 20-ish psi redline but dyno will tell best

    Damn! That seems like a lot of boost compared to what the highest I have ran 20psi tapering to 16 psi at redline! Looking forward to getting my Cobb AP in a few days.

  3. #28
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    So this sencor will do nothing for the stock turbos?

  4. #29
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    They don't have the efficiency to go over 21psi.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateracing335i Click here to enlarge
    They don't have the efficiency to go over 21psi.
    So what is the max of stock?

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateracing335i Click here to enlarge
    They don't have the efficiency to go over 21psi.
    have you looked at the compressor map? only right at redline you're right...
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    I know there are three models there's upgrades TD04 15 g's and 13g's 16g's

    but note that the housing is a TD03 and that will be able to not ever be like if they were hybridized in the case of TD04,

    these models are maintained by subarus turbosand mithusibi 3000 gt

    TD04-16g unit is equivalent to a TD05 evolution ofa 3 or 4

    are able to blow over 24psi 6400rpm

    good morning from Spain I will train in kart awaits me next month the championship of Spain

    greetings guys
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #33
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    I was in the same situation with a full catless system being too loud in that low rpm range, plus my car is AT. It's much, much better with an additional muffler added in the mid pipes. Ordered a Magnaflow muffler with dual in and out and had a shop weld that in the mid pipes, big difference with catless downpipes, Borla catless midpipes, and Borla single muffler exhaust.

    I'll be switching from stock downpipes and exhaust (emissions test) back to full catless in a week or two, will post another impression when the change is fresh.

  9. #34
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    sounds good dz. look forward to your results with the n20 map sensor, and ofc, to see how the RB's handle the increased boost. according to the compressor maps, (16t, 15t, close enough eh?) it looks like you'll be gaining torque early (from advanced timing ie: boost) on but your peak hp will stay nearly the same? or am i reading them wrong.
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    2007 335i Coupe
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    If anyone can find me a compressor map for TD04L-15T (RB Turbo internals) online somewhere please post it up...i could only find one for the 15G and according to @Rob@RBTurbo 15G is an older less efficient design than what he has in the RBs
    This is something Rob posted around 2004 on one of his other upgrade threads. I think with the Stealth he even offered an HL turbine wheel all the way to a 19T compressor (TD04HL-19T):

    Some Turbo Comparison Specs:
    13T Compressor Wheel
    Inducer 1.597"
    Exducer 2.205"
    13T Turbine Wheel (TD04L)
    Inducer 1.860"
    Exducer 1.620"
    9B Compressor Wheel
    Inducer 1.365"
    Exducer 1.930"
    9B Turbine Wheel (TD04)
    Inducer 1.860"
    Exducer 1.550"
    13G Compressor Wheel
    Inducer 1.580"
    Exducer 2.000"
    13G Turbine Wheel (TD04)
    Inducer 1.860"
    Exducer 1.550"
    15G Compressor Wheel
    Inducer 1.625"
    Exducer 2.187"
    15T Compressor Wheel
    Inducer 1.654"
    Exducer 2.205"
    15G Turbine Wheel (TD04)
    Inducer 1.860"
    Exducer 1.550"
    Last edited by scottp999; 03-03-2012 at 11:46 AM.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  11. #36
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    Thanks Scott...looks like size wise the 15T and G are very similar, not sure if there are differences in the aero design anywhere as Rob says the 15T is a bit more efficient...we'll see I guess when we push boost further in the next few days with the new n20 tmap...

    Today I was on the dyno with John (ultimateracing335i). His car is practically the same as mine (E90 335i 2007 or 2008) except he has an ultimate racing 2.5" catless exhaust with magnaflow resonators in the midpipes and I have a stock catback...he made 480whp/491wtq STD on the early race map that ran 10.5deg up top...i already have the newer version of the race map that runs 11-11.5deg up top and more timing in midrange and is a stronger map according to my vbox results...in fact the latest cobb race map is as fast on the vbox as my previous all out JB4+cobb stockish 11AFR map setup with stock timing race gas+meth, boost maxed for the 15ohm board, weight reduction and catless exhaust when i ran the 7.59sec 60-130...

    It was interesting to see the catless exhaust made a difference of about 10-15whp depending on the pull on this same dyno same conditions same map only difference being catback exhaust between our cars...however, there was a significant wheel torque difference between our cars all the way from the low end through midrange all the way up which shows that the exhaust, while not providing for more peak power does in fact impact low and midrange torque quite significantly actually...

    Two other things we found interesting:

    1) his car wouldn't start without a battery booster when we waited for a cooldown in between pulls. We'd battery boost the car on 2 occasions using a shop charger to get the car started which was weird. Then all of a sudden car overheated and a coolant overflow tank safety cap let out some coolant. We freaked! Check the codes we get water pump speed deviation codes and a few other water pump codes. Coolant temp would hit 240F and we'd shut the car down. At first we thought the water pump went somehow, which was odd, OR the water pump fuse may have went when we were boosting the car to turn it on. Just as we were giving up and thought he'd need a new water pump we look around the battery. Not sure how many of you know but there's an indicator on it that tells you if the battery needs to be replaced. Sure enough, indicator was yellow meaning "Replace battery" Click here to enlarge We switched out the battery, car was running like a champ again AND most weirdly no more water pump issues/codes/overheating/anything just smooth! Who would've thought it was the battery, especially when the car has only about 40-50,000km on it...

    2) Meth injection: He had 2 CM10 nozzles on the car from before which are configured to turn on in a staged fashion. We did 2 pulls initially with both of them and noticed a bit of error corrections on cylinders 2, 4,5 or just 2 and 5 and the car was making 463-464whp which I felt was either on the low side OR that the catless catback didn't matter as these numbers were in line with my numbers couple days ago. At that point we stopped the injection with the second CM10 (so only 1 CM10) and the car picked up 15whp up to 480whp STD with timing corrections minimized only cyl5 and only past 6500rpm+ and 3deg and less which was great...it may have picked up even a bit more had we not run into issues with the battery and after had to get off the dyno as the shop was getting renovated...

    In any case 480whp/491wtq hitting down low with FBO catless + RB + 1 CM10 nozzle is a strong performer in my mind with a boost curve hitting 19.7psi on his gauge coming down to high 16ish psi at redline with only 5 up to 10.5deg up top just kissing 11 right at 7k rpm.

    I'll be dynoing soon again with the exhaust cutouts, new race maps, n20 tmap, more boost and more timing (more timing in midrange, 11ish up top, hitting 12 at 7k rpm) and see where we get..John's car however is getting for a very special secret sauce project in the next few days, should be interesting to say the least Click here to enlarge

    Cheers
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 03-03-2012 at 07:59 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    nice, i can order it directly from germany 70 euros :-)
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    matter of fact I do Click here to enlarge

    N20 pressure sensor part#: 13627843531

    Tischer won't have it in their online catalog at this time and I had to talk to Jason there to custom order it...i placed an order for a bottle of oil and he changed it manually to this part...i guess they'll add it eventually, N20 is just too new i guess
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  13. #38
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    Wow, great thread and info, I'm looking forward to the final numbers. Dzenno, Thanks for paving the way for rest of us. I just installed my Cobb and couldn't be more pleased. Super smooth and the tq/ throttle response is awesome.
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

  14. #39
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    Looked at this compressor map a few days ago and here is my take on it. This is by looking at the TD04H-15G. I know RBs use TD04L-15T but from what I've read they have pretty much identical compressor maps to the 15G with the 15T being a bit more efficient.


    After figuring out how to read compressor maps the 15G compressor map shows we get max air flow (at the edge of the compressor map, far right) at around 0.2 m3/sec of airflow. Taking 2 of the turbos into account, the total flow is ~850cfm or 58lb/min for both units flowing together. This is also the number Rob has indicated in the past.


    Now, coming back to the compressor map, the pressure ratio required to support max air flow is 2.3 which translates to about 19psi at sea level...If all that is correct, I can't see a point in pushing these turbos past 19psi as they simply won't provide more air flow and will only spin faster as it goes past the 60% efficiency range. This is at redline as far as I can tell, midrange and 6k rpm quite possibly more..


    Given 58lb/min we should be making around 580hp. If you take a 490-500whp car and calculate in say 15% drivetrain losses it comes out to approx 570-580hp at the motor.

    Now given that the N54 is a nice flowing highly efficient engine and it makes more power on stock turbos then it really should be making when compressor maps are analyzed we can expect that more is possible because of that and because the above is based solely on the 15G map which is less efficient than the 15T.

    In any case, just throwing that out there as a discussion item and something to munge over while we wait for @Rob@Cobb to hit their Mustang with the 3.5bar and crank things UP!
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #40
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    We'll make a PNP adapter for the N2O sensor as soon as ours comes in.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    We'll make a PNP adapter for the N2O sensor as soon as ours comes in.
    Thats great! Save one for me :-)
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Dzenno, so you are saying 490-500whp on 93-94 octane only? or pump + meth.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  18. #43
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    The above assessment has nothing to do with octane really. Its just an analysis/assessment based on cfm provided by the turbos and relative hp they should provide..octane is just there to fight off pre-ignition and minimize timing retard...

    as for numbers on pump gas I don't think we'll have anything we haven't seen before...its pump+meth that may see improvement
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  19. #44
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    Thanks. I'm really enjoying the car now, a few more safe HP on pump + meth would be a big win.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  20. #45
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    who would complain about a few extra ponies especially when they're done right Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #46
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    its really going to be torque that you'll gain not high rev hp, you'll have to taper to your same amount at the high end right, or will you push it to see where they can go (out of efficiency range, many guys on stock turbos do it with great results)?
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  22. #47
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    midrange should improve...i think they'll have more to 6k rpm and taper heavily to redline once all maxed out
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #48
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    It would be nice if we could push 20psi to 7200rpm increase the rev limit! Seems like 1st and 2nd gear just go by so quick when shifting at 6,200rpm.

  24. #49
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    1st and 2nd should've always been shifted at redline...i'm talking the 3-4 shift
    Click here to enlarge

  25. #50
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    If I take 1st gear out to high it makes it harder to shift fast into 2nd it will grind the synchro almost every time. I am thinking I need to try some thicker tranny fluid.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    1st and 2nd should've always been shifted at redline...i'm talking the 3-4 shift

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