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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up COBB/RB Tuning - 3.5bar tmap sensor from the BMW N20 engine - its a go!

    A few weeks back Rob and I started talking about wiring in a 3bar sensor and pushing more boost with RBs to see if there's more in them above what the stock tmap sensor would provide. I knew about Shiv's hacked up Delphi map sensor from about a year ago when he posted it up on e90post but we really wanted something plug and play and/or OEM that we could just rescale the DME boost/voltage tables with and run with.

    After some research and realizing the N20 engine ran higher boost than the N54 we focused on that sensor. For those that can recall I hinted about something to do with the "N20" a few weeks back but didn't want to say anything else as we didn't know if it'd be as nice as we wanted it to be.

    Rob ordered it, took a while to get to him, but its on the car already, has already been scaled into the DME, and the car will be on the dyno very soon Click here to enlarge

    Stay tuned Click here to enlarge This should be fun with ATP now officially released as well and ATR soon to come out...

    P.S. Funny, Shiv pushed to post about this FIRST on e90post when he got the idea from here or someone told him to look at it after my post a few weeks back. How's that for "being original"...another idea after the 2-step and NLS ideas got totally copied after I brought them to his attention that they worked on this car. Douchebag still claims originality and still says he's the first one to innovate.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Sweet! Our N2O motor won't be here for another week or two but I'll try to get a sensor on order. We have the connectors to make a nice little PNP adapter for it and then we'll just setup a user adjustable for the map sensor (oem or N2O) for a simple seamless setup. Did Rob verify the IAT scaling? That is the only part that might present an issue for piggybacks as we don't alter that signal back to the DME.

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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    P.S. Funny, Shiv pushed to post about this FIRST on e90post when he got the idea from here or someone told him to look at it after my post a few weeks back. How's that for "being original"...another idea after the 2-step and NLS ideas got totally copied after I brought them to his attention that they worked on this car. Douchebag still claims originality and still says he's the first one to innovate.
    Dzenno, come on, so much drama for this... Its been discussed since late 2010...

    Its nice that everyone will be using it in the next few days. One step in the right direction.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Did Rob verify the IAT scaling? That is the only part that might present an issue for piggybacks as we don't alter that signal back to the DME.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shiv@Vishnu
    For the most part, it's a direct replacement to the original MAP sensor. Even the IAT response curve seems the same.

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    Looking forward to see the RBs can handle at max duty cycle!

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    Dzenno, how much more psi you think the RBs can handle ? Sounds like you are going to have so fun soon!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kalud Click here to enlarge
    Dzenno, come on, so much drama for this... Its been discussed since late 2010...

    Its nice that everyone will be using it in the next few days. One step in the right direction.
    Its not about that, its the principles behind stupid marketing that i can't stop myself from making fun of anymore really...
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kalud Click here to enlarge
    Dzenno, how much more psi you think the RBs can handle ? Sounds like you are going to have so fun soon!
    Not sure really, waiting on Cobb to get the car on the dyno and start pushing it...my n20 is on order so i'm waiting on it to arrive..

    If anyone can find me a compressor map for TD04L-15T (RB Turbo internals) online somewhere please post it up...i could only find one for the 15G and according to @Rob@RBTurbo 15G is an older less efficient design than what he has in the RBs

    I'm guessing the new intake pipes will be of significant help with more boost especially
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Its not about that, its the principles behind stupid marketing that i can't stop myself from making fun of anymore really...
    Well, maybe its just me, but its getting old. And adding fuel on the fire won't help because it always turns out to an endless loop or crap and useless posts.

    I suggest facts, news, results and fun (with our cars) as a solution Click here to enlarge I am pretty sure most can do their own mind, and shame on them if they can't...


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Not sure really, waiting on Cobb to get the car on the dyno and start pushing it...my n20 is on order so i'm waiting on it to arrive..

    If anyone can find me a compressor map for TD04L-15T (RB Turbo internals) online somewhere please post it up...i could only find one for the 15G and according to @Rob@RBTurbo 15G is an older less efficient design than what he has in the RBs

    I'm guessing the new intake pipes will be of significant help with more boost especially
    Its very interesting to say the least. I am not close to the subject, but without the actual compressor map, would it be possible to log inlet and outlet pressure + inlet and outlet temperature to actually get a good idea. Ideally compare with stock and Shiv's single turbo.

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    Good to hear.

    Would this be needed to run 23psi+ at altitude?

    I'm guessing the stock N54 sensor is a 2.5bar and the 2.5bar is based on the total psi that the engine sees? If so, let me know if this logic below is correct.

    My thinking is that 21psi on RB's at sea level is:
    14.5 atmospheric psi + 21.0 RB psi = 35.5 total psi, 35.5/14.5 = 2.4 bar, within the stock sensor's range

    But then in Denver they'd need 23.4psi on RB's to get the engine the same total psi:
    12.1 atmospheric psi + 23.4 RB psi = 35.5 total psi, same total as at sea level.

    Eager to see how much more headroom the RB's have at sea level, then estimate what they'd do at elevation and if a larger sensor would be needed up here.

    BTW, anyone know what the psi on Procede's boost gauge (fuel) reads? I'd guess psi over atmospheric, so if it says 17psi in Denver (17psi on gauge + 12.1 atmospheric = 29.1 total psi), that isn't the same as 17psi at sea level (17psi on gauge + 14.5 atmospheric = 31.5 total psi).

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    The higher the elevation the more relative boost the OEM sensor can read. IIRC it reports 1.6v @ 5000' vs. say 1.95v @ sea level so at elevation you can read an addl ~3psi.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mattsfeir Click here to enlarge
    BTW, anyone know what the psi on Procede's boost gauge (fuel) reads? I'd guess psi over atmospheric, so if it says 17psi in Denver (17psi on gauge + 12.1 atmospheric = 29.1 total psi), that isn't the same as 17psi at sea level (17psi on gauge + 14.5 atmospheric = 31.5 total psi).
    From the other forum (quick search):

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Shiv@Vishnu
    Procede's boost gauge represents boost above standard atmosphere pressure (14.5psi). So if you starting out at 12psi atmospheric, you'll need to build up 2.5psi before the needle starts to move.

  13. #13
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I've got a TD04H-15T and TD04-16T compressor flow maps. The TD04L and H are pretty close to flow. However from what I have seen the L has just a slightly larger compressor. I have a TD04L-16T on my Saab 9-3SS and the 16T map below is very close.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  14. #14
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The higher the elevation the more relative boost the OEM sensor can read. IIRC it reports 1.6v @ 5000' vs. say 1.95v @ sea level so at elevation you can read an addl ~3psi.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Kalud Click here to enlarge
    From the other forum (quick search):
    Thanks for the responses.

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    OEM 3.5bar MAP sensor...
    Cobb working on it...

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    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
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  16. #16
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    Hopefully they pick up something past 5500 but i doubt it.

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    Hopefully but if the RBs are anything like the 15G 19psi at redline will be max..far right of the compressor map, talking about sea level...midrange it looks like 27.5psi could be had at the edge in the middle...estimating it i think it'll be possibly 24-26psi midrange to 6k rpm tapering to 20-ish psi redline but dyno will tell best
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully but if the RBs are anything like the 15G 19psi at redline will be max..far right of the compressor map, talking about sea level...midrange it looks like 27.5psi could be had at the edge in the middle...estimating it i think it'll be possibly 24-26psi midrange to 6k rpm tapering to 20-ish psi redline but dyno will tell best
    Have you got any concerns with the stock exhaust back on? Are you using the secondary cats? Bolted mine back on again, what a pleasure -my ears thanked me.

  19. #19
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    Catless downpipes are still in with the stock catback...honestly the car is a joy to drive again after daily torture even with the best catless exhaust of them all, the AE...

    Not a huge concern other than not making all the power it could be but i'll run cutouts pretty soon when i need all out and need the noise to show some teeth Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Catless downpipes are still in with the stock catback...honestly the car is a joy to drive again after daily torture even with the best catless exhaust of them all, the AE...

    Not a huge concern other than not making all the power it could be but i'll run cutouts pretty soon when i need all out and need the noise to show some teeth Click here to enlarge
    I also took the AE off. Felt like I was committing a sin. My nos bottle even looked at me funny hehe until I went for a drive and what a relief.

  21. #21
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    Stock catback is the best mod i've done in a while for sure lol couldnt stand the booming noise between 1500-2700rpm daily in traffic anymore...if it was my weekend car i'd go with the HPF but the 3 is my favourite daily so cutouts for that 2% of the time i REALLY want to let it rip
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    Dzenno where did you order the map sensor and how much was it?

  23. #23
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    Tischer as usual...$101.50
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    Do you have the part number handy?

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    matter of fact I do Click here to enlarge

    N20 pressure sensor part#: 13627843531

    Tischer won't have it in their online catalog at this time and I had to talk to Jason there to custom order it...i placed an order for a bottle of oil and he changed it manually to this part...i guess they'll add it eventually, N20 is just too new i guess
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