Close

Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    Reputation: Yes | No

    How to Measure Pulley sizes for a Vortech Supercharger-CORRECTLY

    Its no secret I pay attention to details. One detail I found was someone posted pictures of themselves measuring a pulley. This was of note because the HP and PSI claimed for the kit was not adding up to what the rest of the community was seeing.

    52xHP at 5.0 psi (AVERAGE Click here to enlarge )



    So I posed another, what I thought was common sense, easy and straightforward question to the people that know.

    Here are the pictures of said pulley measurement (named pulley 1 and pulley 2 referenced in Email):

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    you will notice that the calipers are in 2 diferent locations, and outside the belt. WRONG. That was obviously wrong, But I wasnt exactly sure either, is it from the lands or the grooves? SO I had to email Vortech again. Very helpful people. I attached the 2 pictures above, and a third for reference
    Click here to enlarge

    RE: Boost Measuring Question‏


    To see messages related to this one, group messages by conversation.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge


    10:47 AM


    Add to contacts
    To 'XXX'



    From: John Snee (jsnee@vortechsuperchargers.com)Click here to enlarge
    Sent: Mon 2/20/12 10:47 AM
    To: 'XXX(XXX)




    Yes, #3 is correct.

    -John

    From: XXX [mailto:XXX.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 6:17 PM
    To: John Snee
    Subject: RE: Boost Measuring Question




    But with just the pulley, not with the belt on correct? I am attaching a few pictures. Im assuming the attached pictures would be incorrect then ( named pulley1,pulley2)?

    and that picture 3 (pulley3) Would be correct?
    Thank you very much for your time and help


    From: jsnee@vortechsuperchargers.com
    To: XXX.com
    Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:34:36 -0800
    Subject: RE: Boost Measuring Question

    Rib tip to rib tip (“peak”, not valley).

    -John

    From: XXX [mailto:XXX.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 1:04 PM
    To: John Snee
    Subject: RE: Boost Measuring Question




    Thank you, much appreciated. One more question. How do you measure the pulley size on your pulleys? From the lands, groves, or outer wall of the pulley?

    Thank you
    S


    From: jsnee@vortechsuperchargers.com
    To: XXX.com
    Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 09:13:45 -0800
    Subject: RE: Boost Measuring Question

    Shawn,

    We list “peak” boost. The higher you rev the engine with a centrifugal supercharger, the more boost you make, so our boost reading is the peak reading at the engine’s maximum shift point.

    -John

    From: XXX [mailto:XXX.com]
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:38 PM
    To: John Snee
    Subject: Boost Measuring Question




    Hello,
    When a person measures boost, regardless of motor, is it peak boost or an "average boost"over rpm range that should be used/claimed?
    Thank you
    Shawn


    Now, i dont care what boost was used, what kit it was, or anything other than that the owner has a fast, safe,reliable car that they are happy with.

    What I do care about, is the complete incompetence that one man has, and yet tries to promote a vastly different picture to the community.

    Maybe next I can make nice graph showing a timeline, and the "TREND" PG has for either knowingly promoting false data, or genuinly doesnt know much about anything automotive.

    So for those of you wondering how to measure your pulley sizes, this should help you out

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,166
    Rep Points
    1,746.4
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    18


    Reputation: Yes | No
    win again must i say Click here to enlarge
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,608
    Rep Points
    3,236.6
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    33


    Reputation: Yes | No
    As long as you use a reference diameter that is common to both pulleys you are ok for pulley ratios. You cant use the outside surface because that diameter is not the loaded face diameter that actually transmits power through the belt and may or may not be a common OD for the pulley. You can use either the groove or the top of the land, as long as you choose ONE and use it to measure both pulleys. The grooves are probably harder to measure, so thats why you measure the outside land.

    You coulda just asked me...
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

    Other people eat shit and die.

    I'm not racist, I hate everybody equally; especially fat people.


    Click here to enlarge

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    As long as you use a reference diameter that is common to both pulleys you are ok for pulley ratios. You cant use the outside surface because that diameter is not the loaded face diameter that actually transmits power through the belt and may or may not be a common OD for the pulley. You can use either the groove or the top of the land, as long as you choose ONE and use it to measure both pulleys. The grooves are probably harder to measure, so thats why you measure the outside land.

    You coulda just asked me...
    yes, I know you know, but unless you work for Vortech, your "credentials" could be "disputed" and I like to eliminate any doubt Click here to enlarge

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    685
    Rep Points
    757.3
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    As soon as I started reading this post I was going to give you a link to the third picture from 928 motorsports website. But I see you already have done your research. The third picture is correct I have a few Vortech pulleys laying around, I also have a 928 one thats the silver one in the picture.

    You plan on on boosting your M soon LostMarine ? My self you akh and nismo have to hook up for some runs this spring/summer, has to happen we live in the same state lol

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Time permitting of course, AKH goes up your way all the time for different things, my schedule is too whacked, but if im goin up that way im game..

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    685
    Rep Points
    757.3
    Mentioned
    55 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Time permitting of course, AKH goes up your way all the time for different things, my schedule is too whacked, but if im goin up that way im game..
    No problem man once I am up and running, I will even take a trip down there to Atco.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mr.Squeeze Click here to enlarge
    No problem man once I am up and running, I will even take a trip down there to Atco.
    Thats your best bet, atco during the day, AC at night Click here to enlarge

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,166
    Rep Points
    1,746.4
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    18


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Dont have the car for a few days but after that will be more than willing to in a safe location.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Look at you becoming the detective.

    Always best to e-mail the experts and ask them directly. If you don't, you might end up believing what is politics over technical information.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    needed elsewhere

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    117,751
    Rep Points
    31,550.6
    Mentioned
    2064 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    316


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    needed elsewhere
    So you're linking and using BB bandwidth to try to educate others elsewhere rather than here?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    toolbag knows where to find me, he just wont man up where i can truely embarass him. notice the magical special greek caliper, that you can see through? it defies all logic and reason, you can see through it

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    522
    Rep Points
    122.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Hey LostMarine, you may also hear pulleys measured by their pitch diameter, a theoretical diameter that is larger than the outside diameter (for pv belts). A quick search shows automotive applications use the K profile, and thus the pitch diameter is 4mm larger than the outside diameter.

    http://www.megadyne.it/pdf/schede/183pag8-9-10-11.pdf


    In other applications such as pulleys for wire rope, you may hear the term root diameter too.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    Hey LostMarine, you may also hear pulleys measured by their pitch diameter, a theoretical diameter that is larger than the outside diameter (for pv belts). A quick search shows automotive applications use the K profile, and thus the pitch diameter is 4mm larger than the outside diameter.

    http://www.megadyne.it/pdf/schede/183pag8-9-10-11.pdf


    In other applications such as pulleys for wire rope, you may hear the term root diameter too.
    good info. Vortech already confirmed how they measure them though, as well as common measurements across the boards. I could see with that info a variance, but if we all measure it the same, and correlates to how vortech does it, would that not be accurate then?

    The only variable i could see is if the crank pulley is also swapped,chaning the ratio, but I have not seen anyone mention doing that

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    804
    Rep Points
    641.4
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    7


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Its no secret I pay attention to details. One detail I found was someone posted pictures of themselves measuring a pulley. This was of note because the HP and PSI claimed for the kit was not adding up to what the rest of the community was seeing.

    52xHP at 5.0 psi (AVERAGE Click here to enlarge )



    So I posed another, what I thought was common sense, easy and straightforward question to the people that know.

    Here are the pictures of said pulley measurement (named pulley 1 and pulley 2 referenced in Email):

    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    you will notice that the calipers are in 2 diferent locations, and outside the belt. WRONG. That was obviously wrong, But I wasnt exactly sure either, is it from the lands or the grooves? SO I had to email Vortech again. Very helpful people. I attached the 2 pictures above, and a third for reference
    Click here to enlarge




    Now, i dont care what boost was used, what kit it was, or anything other than that the owner has a fast, safe,reliable car that they are happy with.

    What I do care about, is the complete incompetence that one man has, and yet tries to promote a vastly different picture to the community.

    Maybe next I can make nice graph showing a timeline, and the "TREND" PG has for either knowingly promoting false data, or genuinly doesnt know much about anything automotive.

    So for those of you wondering how to measure your pulley sizes, this should help you out
    Great info to clarify for the community.

    I get the impression PG had very little automotive experience before buying his M3. I know he had problems doing donuts, so that is not a good sign. I mean everyone has to start somewhere, but like you said; be honest about your experience. When someone corrects you, you should really be thankful first, and potentially embarrassed second.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Great info to clarify for the community.

    I get the impression PG had very little automotive experience before buying his M3. I know he had problems doing donuts, so that is not a good sign. I mean everyone has to start somewhere, but like you said; be honest about your experience. When someone corrects you, you should really be thankful first, and potentially embarrassed second.
    thanks. I already admitted that i was wrong in that the pullies we use do not have the guide ledges.

    I dont think many of us fault the guy for being a newb, but like you said, its share the truth, not bend it to show what you want

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    522
    Rep Points
    122.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    good info. Vortech already confirmed how they measure them though, as well as common measurements across the boards. I could see with that info a variance, but if we all measure it the same, and correlates to how vortech does it, would that not be accurate then?

    The only variable i could see is if the crank pulley is also swapped,chaning the ratio, but I have not seen anyone mention doing that
    yes, it would be accurate for comparison purposes. but, some calculations in pulley/belt systems use pitch diameter (such as calculating belt speed) while others use outside diameter (such as calculating reduction ratio). anyways, just a random tidbit. i do this belt/pulley stuff for a living, so forgive me for sweating the details, lol.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    yes, it would be accurate for comparison purposes. but, some calculations in pulley/belt systems use pitch diameter (such as calculating belt speed) while others use outside diameter (such as calculating reduction ratio). anyways, just a random tidbit. i do this belt/pulley stuff for a living, so forgive me for sweating the details, lol.
    cool. i figured as much. Its a good piece of info. any other info you have about the topic?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    522
    Rep Points
    122.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    e36s experience belt slip with a combination of 6" crank pulley and ~3" supercharger pulley (6 rib, 7k rpm). so keep an eye out for it. that's been a major stumbling block for big power and big revs. increasing the size of the crank pulley is more desirable than decreasing the size of the supercharger pulley if trying to increase boost.

    member 'buldogge' on bimmerforums does some nice custom pulleys for guys looking for custom sizes.

    what are the crank and supercharger pulley sizes currently on the highest boosting E92s?

    belt manufacturers can measure belt lengths differently and it can be a crap shoot trying to order the right one.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black bnr32 Click here to enlarge
    e36s experience belt slip with a combination of 6" crank pulley and ~3" supercharger pulley (6 rib, 7k rpm). so keep an eye out for it. that's been a major stumbling block for big power and big revs. increasing the size of the crank pulley is more desirable than decreasing the size of the supercharger pulley if trying to increase boost.

    member 'buldogge' on bimmerforums does some nice custom pulleys for guys looking for custom sizes.

    what are the crank and supercharger pulley sizes currently on the highest boosting E92s?

    belt manufacturers can measure belt lengths differently and it can be a crap shoot trying to order the right one.
    How many run tensioners on them? coming from the lightning/ eaton s/c, and upgraded tensioner was a must

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    522
    Rep Points
    122.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    RMS and AA run dedicated supercharger belts with manual tensioners. VFE runs their blower off the factory accessory belt path and are tensioned via the factory hydraulic tensioner. The VFE system is basically untested at big boost as they are not intercooled.

    proper tension is important for long life of the bearings and the belts. running more than optimal tension helps belt slip and might be the only option, but ultimately you are decreasing the life of the system.

    i'm guessing an upgraded tensioner was a must because the supercharger was driven off the factory accessory belt path and factory sized belt. both the factory belt size and tensioner are likely undersized for a supercharger (takes more torque to drive a supercharger than an alternator)

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,460
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0



    Reputation: Yes | No
    your talking about on what platforms?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    522
    Rep Points
    122.9
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    2


    Reputation: Yes | No
    e36

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •