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  1. #1
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    Reading Boost on Centrifugal Supercharger (Peak Boost Vs AVG Boost)

    Well, our budy PG is at it again with nonstop B.S.

    As anyone knows, you measure PEAK BOOST on a centrigual supercharger. Actually, as long as its not a TB closing induced spike, any and everyone measure and reports peak boost. Even if it tapers off, those without BIAS, or, a not so greatly hidden agenda (such as PG), will state the peak boost achieved, and then the taper with boost at max rpm.

    SO I pose this question, does anyone OTHER than PG try to equate an average to boost?
    It is very obvious that he is always on the hunt to show more HP with less boost, and this is his tool.

    I went ahead and posed an easy, and should be common sense answer to a ew people that "should" know what they are talking about. People that have no agenda, no bias, and A LOT more background in racing and motors than PG.


    1. PROCHARGER-CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGERS

    Technical Service
    From: Technical Service (techserv@procharger.com)Click here to enlarge
    Sent: Fri 2/17/12 9:12 AM
    To: XXXXX

    Peak boost is what most people go by.

    -----Original Message-----
    From:
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:41 PM
    To: techserv@procharger.com
    Subject: Web site tech request

    Name: shawn
    Email: xxxPhone:
    Vehicle: 2010 BMW M3
    Serial:
    Issue: Hello,
    When a person measures boost, regardless of motor, is it peak boost or an
    "average boost"over rpm range that should be used/claimed?

    Thank you

    Shawn


    2.PAXTON-CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGERS
    Jimmy Martz
    Add to contactsTo XXXX

    From: Jimmy Martz (jmartz@paxtonauto.com)
    Sent: Thu 2/16/12 8:00 PM
    To: XXX (XXXX)





    Peak. Boost is measured at max rpm.

    -Jimmy
    On Feb 16, 2012, at 4:39 PM, "XXXX" <XXXX> wrote:
    Hello,When a person measures boost, regardless of motor, is it peak boost or an "average boost"over rpm range that should be used/claimed?
    Thank you
    Shawn




    I can hear it now, "but thats not Vortech, and thats who we use!!"





    Game Over Mr im not bias and have no motorsports experience before i decided to get an M3...

    I do not blame any tuner, but PG himself

    3. VORTECH-CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGER
    John Snee
    Add to contactsTo XXX

    From: John Snee (jsnee@vortechsuperchargers.com)Click here to enlarge
    Sent: Fri 2/17/12 12:13 PM
    To: XXX(XXX)




    Shawn,

    We list “peak” boost. The higher you rev the engine with a centrifugal supercharger, the more boost you make, so our boost reading is the peak reading at the engine’s maximum shift point.

    -John

    From: XXX [mailto:XXX]
    Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 4:38 PM
    To: John Snee
    Subject: Boost Measuring Question




    Hello,
    When a person measures boost, regardless of motor, is it peak boost or an "average boost"over rpm range that should be used/claimed?
    Thank you
    Shawn




  2. #2
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    lol i always asked myself why have avg till you start looking at the graphs.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    well, its entry level psychology he is attempting to use. He believes if HE says that the only reason you would want to claim lower boost and higher HP is because of devious "fanboys"..That one would assume that HE is not the one guilty of it.. but clearly, if every FI platform user/tuner/reporter/MANUFACTURER goes with peak boost, its because its proper.. And it makes you wonder why is he THE ONLY ONE TRYING TO CLAIM ITS NOT RIGHT

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    lol i know what you mean.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    Peak boost, no doubt.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Peak boost, no doubt.
    LOL, yea, I thought that was just plain common sense and didnt need to be discussed Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    As if there's another method... Centri equals peak shift point/rpm
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    As if there's another method... Centri equals peak shift point/rpm
    lol, preaching to the choir brother...

    as much as i hate to link http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=395579
    he just always tries to make a graph to prove everyone wrong when its very simple

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    Lots of babble and great wording in there... However there is only one issue, its wrong! Seriously how delusional is this dude, you shouldn't entertain this at all.
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

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    You would be suprised how many bmw owners dont know any better and take his word as law because he invested in a stroker and makes pretty graphs, even though his projects have failed repeatedly. You would think they would catch on..

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    You know what sucks in PG? others know nothing and talk $#@! which is OK, PG knows one or two things but then he talks $#@!. It's just a waste of knowledge Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    You know what sucks in PG? others know nothing and talk $#@! which is OK, PG knows one or two things but then he talks $#@!. It's just a waste of knowledge Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    You know what sucks in PG? others know nothing and talk $#@! which is OK, PG knows one or two things but then he talks $#@!. It's just a waste of knowledge Click here to enlarge
    no, he knows nothing but how to put numbers in a graph that favor his opinion and usually not even about the topic at hand.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I guess it make sense if you are looking at the purpose of his site. I've spent the last 11 years of my career in the auto aftermarket and most people 'compete' here:

    Click here to enlarge

    here: photo by J. Owen Photo
    Click here to enlarge

    and similar venues - not on forums or spreadsheets. Also, when engaging in the real world competition, the mood is very positive and everyone is (generally) having fun. I like that better Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    I guess it make sense if you are looking at the purpose of his site. I've spent the last 11 years of my career in the auto aftermarket and most people 'compete' here:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...1/cecil3-1.jpg

    here: photo by J. Owen Photo
    http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...die92msm-1.jpg

    and similar venues - not on forums or spreadsheets. Also, when engaging in the real world competition, the mood is very positive and everyone is (generally) having fun. I like that better Click here to enlarge
    game set and match i agree with you Mike.
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    Also, when engaging in the real world competition, the mood is very positive and everyone is (generally) having fun. I like that better Click here to enlarge
    This, is one of the most important and real factors. Online a lot of us get heated to defend our opinions. But when the same people I argue with actually meet up, its a good time had for all

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    This, is one of the most important and real factors. Online a lot of us get heated to defend our opinions. But when the same people I argue with actually meet up, its a good time had for all

    So true man +10000
    F10 M5 : ??????
    E90 M3: 11.2 126.7 with a 1.8 60ft Street Tires, Stock Interior,DSC on

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    SO I pose this question, does anyone OTHER than PG try to equate an average to boost?
    It is very obvious that he is always on the hunt to show more HP with less boost, and this is his tool.
    It's $#@!ing idiotic.

    Secondly, nobody even cares about self serving equations. This obsession with trying to prove efficiency is pointless, wrong, and secondly, what does it matter when other setups are making a whole ton more power?

    Different sized blowers are going to produce different results/boost. All boost is not created equal. You can't just say 7 psi on this blower is equal to 7 psi on this blower. You take a blower flowing a hell of a lot more CFM and it is going to move more air efficiently and at lower temp than a small blower being pushed hard. At peak, those two blowers will also have different boost readings.

    And yes, you are going to look at peak boost.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    well, its entry level psychology he is attempting to use. He believes if HE says that the only reason you would want to claim lower boost and higher HP is because of devious "fanboys"..That one would assume that HE is not the one guilty of it.. but clearly, if every FI platform user/tuner/reporter/MANUFACTURER goes with peak boost, its because its proper.. And it makes you wonder why is he THE ONLY ONE TRYING TO CLAIM ITS NOT RIGHT
    You might was well not waste your time. I have come to believe he has some serious mental/medical issues that it would take professionals to deal with.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, preaching to the choir brother...

    as much as i hate to link http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=395579
    he just always tries to make a graph to prove everyone wrong when its very simple
    The pie chart master.

    The sad thing is, people see pie charts and think that means the person knows what they are talking about.

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    Lots of babble and great wording in there... However there is only one issue, its wrong! Seriously how delusional is this dude, you shouldn't entertain this at all.
    Let me put this in context for you.

    This is the same guy who said a supercharger on this motor was a bad idea and then went and got a supercharger. This is the same guy who said the DCT has lower drivetrain losses than the manual which is why it is faster and tried to argue this AFTER I contacted all the manufacturers of DCT's and experts in the industry all of whom as a whole stated the DCT has higher losses than a manual.

    Delusional doesn't quite cut it. We need to come up with a new word.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@VAC Click here to enlarge
    I guess it make sense if you are looking at the purpose of his site. I've spent the last 11 years of my career in the auto aftermarket and most people 'compete' here:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...1/cecil3-1.jpg

    here: photo by J. Owen Photo
    http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...die92msm-1.jpg

    and similar venues - not on forums or spreadsheets. Also, when engaging in the real world competition, the mood is very positive and everyone is (generally) having fun. I like that better Click here to enlarge
    Mike, this guy thinks the 1/4 is for children. Seriously, his words.

    Additionally, he uses SIMULATIONS on what his car would run as proof of it running that. I hope his species comes and takes him back to the home planet.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Mike, this guy thinks the 1/4 is for children. Seriously, his words.

    Additionally, he uses SIMULATIONS on what his car would run as proof of it running that. I hope his species comes and takes him back to the home planet.
    lol, hasnt his car been down longer than yours, and in like 3 different shops? and still not even close to being done?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    lol, hasnt his car been down longer than yours, and in like 3 different shops? and still not even close to being done?
    Yep, and I wonder why all the dumbass fanboys overlook this...

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    Hmm, ok.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Mike, this guy thinks the 1/4 is for children. Seriously, his words.

    Additionally, he uses SIMULATIONS on what his car would run as proof of it running that. I hope his species comes and takes him back to the home planet.

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