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  1. #26
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    Can't wait to see the results.

    I've been holding on purchasing any new mods until after I see the Cobb, upgraded turbo, numbers.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    Meth is 80/20 with a single CM10 activated using the CMGS VC-2 controller based on boost, set to turn on at 4psi, flowing about 600-650ml/min flow tested to a bucket.
    That doesn't sound enough.
    The flow should be around 850 ml/min with a single CM10.
    Last edited by Big Tom; 02-18-2012 at 12:58 PM.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Big Tom Click here to enlarge
    That doesn't sound enough.
    The flow should be around 850 ml/min with a single CM10.

    is more than enough there is no difference in the data between 650 and 850 in a m10

    from that updates turbos did many tests and one of them was that
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by carcars Click here to enlarge
    is more than enough there is no difference in the data between 650 and 850 in a m10

    from that updates turbos did many tests and one of them was that
    I'm not sure what you mean, but a CM10 nozzle should flow around 850 ml/min when the pump is at full speed.
    GT-R R35 ​coming up...

  5. #30
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    dzenno dont know if I missed it but did you sort out the misfire you originally had?

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by George Smooth Click here to enlarge
    dzenno dont know if I missed it but did you sort out the misfire you originally had?
    He did. Injector coding issue.

    I can't wait to see some public release beta maps for RB's with some basic methanol kit recommendations.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  7. #32
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    Results?

  8. #33
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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge

    A couple things:

    1) These runs were done on Cobb only, no JB4 boost, single CM10 flow tested to ~650ml/min to a plastic water bottle

    2) AFR is impacted by the stock catback. Tailpipe sniffer was in the passenger tailpipe, driver's side has the flap, but I have the rear cats on which skew the readings by about 0.5-1point. So the readings are 0.5-1 leaner then they really are. If I were on a catless exhaust they would be closer to being correct readings.

    3) I got a more aggressive map from Cobb last night, less wgdc down low and more wgdc up top to better match the boost targets on RBs and eliminate some throttle closures we saw. However, there was an issue with it where the car wouldn't idle/run and would just turn off so I'm waiting on that to be cleaned up. Sucks its a long weekend as Rob usually turns things around F-A-S-T!

    4) This isn't all out yet. Timing is 5deg to 10.5deg in the above run. It hits 11deg at 6.8-7k rpm. In the next map timing is being raised slightly to see improvements and with some wgdc changes it should pick up more power on pump+meth.

    5) I'm running a 100% STOCK catback exhaust with AR catless downpipes. On fully stock cars, changing out to a catless catback raises top end power between 12-15whp. On an RB car I'd expect this number to be at least the same if not up to 20-25whp. That doesn't matter now as I'm not running it but you're free to make your own assumptions of course. Didn't get a chance to take the exhaust off and dyno without it, shop was crazy busy today. See this link for an exhaust shootout on an otherwise stock car:

    http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...ive-decisions/


    6) Boost curve in these runs (see datalogs below) would go from about 18psi down low, hits 20psi 5700-6000rpm and quickly comes down to 16.6-17psi in most logs at redline. So there's definitely more left boost wise.

    7) Peak duty cycle seen is 68% so more room left wastegate duty cycle wise

    8) Torque can easily be higher, in the 500s, down in the lower RPMs, we all know that, this is just the current tune's setup. Don't really see a need for torque down low really...

    To be perfectly honest, I'm happy with results given there's more room. I wish I didn't sell my AE exhaust to be able to at least see ALL OUT numbers but with 15-25whp more due to the catback this results in numbers around 485-495whp on a tune that isn't maximised yet.

    No idea what additional tuning will bring in terms of power, 500 is the magic number I've got in my head obviously and maybe it was around there today had the catless exhaust been there. How much more or less than that and what will the end tune look like, no idea and that remains to be seen.

    Cobb runs 1000ml/min of meth with their dual 1.0mm nozzles...my single CM10 was supposed to be flowing higher but its not so that has possibly killed some power, maybe not, who knows

    Here's the datalogs zipped up: Archive.zip

    Here are vids showing something never seen or logged before on any N54. It is vacuum in the line from the wastegate solenoid down to the turbo wastegate. This is what the WGDC translates into currently. The logs show the WGDC max value 68% currently up top which translates well if you consider that 23" is full vacuum, then 17" shown in the vids is about that..

    I tried using the JB4 up top to add some boost towards redline but boost didn't change up top (it did down lower/midrange)...we'll see with the new Cobb map, once its fixed, if more WGDC up top raises the boost curve as I expect it will/should..







    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 02-18-2012 at 09:56 PM.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im.../02/runs-1.jpg

    A couple things:

    1) These runs were done on Cobb only, no JB4 boost, single CM10 flow tested to ~650ml/min to a plastic water bottle

    2) AFR is impacted by the stock catback. Tailpipe sniffer was in the passenger tailpipe, driver's side has the flap, but I have the rear cats on which skew the readings by about 0.5-1point. So the readings are 0.5-1 leaner then they really are. If I were on a catless exhaust they would be closer to being correct readings.

    3) I got a more aggressive map from Cobb last night, less wgdc down low and more wgdc up top to better match the boost targets on RBs and eliminate some throttle closures we saw. However, there was an issue with it where the car wouldn't idle/run and would just turn off so I'm waiting on that to be cleaned up. Sucks its a long weekend as Rob usually turns things around F-A-S-T!

    4) This isn't all out yet. Timing is 5deg to 10.5deg in the above run. It hits 11deg at 6.8-7k rpm. In the next map timing is being raised slightly to see improvements and with some wgdc changes it should pick up more power on pump+meth.

    5) I'm running a 100% STOCK catback exhaust with AR catless downpipes. On fully stock cars, changing out to a catless catback raises top end power between 12-15whp. On an RB car I'd expect this number to be at least the same if not up to 20-25whp. That doesn't matter now as I'm not running it but you're free to make your own assumptions of course. Didn't get a chance to take the exhaust off and dyno without it, shop was crazy busy today. See this link for an exhaust shootout on an otherwise stock car:

    http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/art...ive-decisions/


    6) Boost curve in these runs (see datalogs below) would go from about 18psi down low, hits 20psi 5700-6000rpm and quickly comes down to 16.6-17psi in most logs at redline. So there's definitely more left boost wise.

    7) Peak duty cycle seen is 68% so more room left wastegate duty cycle wise

    8) Torque can easily be higher, in the 500s, down in the lower RPMs, we all know that, this is just the current tune's setup. Don't really see a need for torque down low really...

    To be perfectly honest, I'm happy with results given there's more room. I wish I didn't sell my AE exhaust to be able to at least see ALL OUT numbers but with 15-25whp more due to the catback this results in numbers around 485-495whp on a tune that isn't maximised yet.

    No idea what additional tuning will bring in terms of power, 500 is the magic number I've got in my head obviously and maybe it was around there today had the catless exhaust been there. How much more or less than that and what will the end tune look like, no idea and that remains to be seen.

    Cobb runs 1000ml/min of meth with their dual 1.0mm nozzles...my single CM10 was supposed to be flowing higher but its not so that has possibly killed some power, maybe not, who knows

    Here's the datalogs zipped up: Archive.zip

    Here are vids showing something never seen or logged before on any N54. It is vacuum in the line from the wastegate solenoid down to the turbo wastegate. This is what the WGDC translates into currently. The logs show the WGDC max value 68% currently up top which translates well if you consider that 23" is full vacuum, then 17" shown in the vids is about that..

    I tried using the JB4 up top to add some boost towards redline but boost didn't change up top (it did down lower/midrange)...we'll see with the new Cobb map, once its fixed, if more WGDC up top raises the boost curve as I expect it will/should..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R2Km3fTDJo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-SwTEbRJC8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ux3oPJ8dtvQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ChxO1trgg
    Very well detailed and presented post...

  10. #35
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    So how does the Cobb work with your meth kit?

  11. #36
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    Its not integrated in any way shape or form. I have a coolingmist vc-2 controller that activates the meth pump based on boost. I have an Aquamist flow sensor hooked up to the JB4 which shows me meth flow in the dash in map4 (passthrough). That's it.

  12. #37
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    Overall not bad. With that conservative advance curve we really need to get vacuum over 22" @ high RPM. Should have something for you in a week or two if you have the time to help test it. Click here to enlarge

    PS. Why is my company name on your dyno charts?? Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 02-19-2012 at 12:57 AM.

  13. #38
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    As soon as you're ready Click here to enlarge

  14. #39
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    Thought I'd throw this out there as well..here's the Procede highest dyno on my car from back in March when Shiv was up here...back then the car had:

    490whp peak
    Helix FMIC
    AE Catless Exhaust
    Race Gas
    Single M14 nozzle (didn't flow test to a bucket)
    100% Meth
    Procede V2
    Wonky AFRs after custom dyno tuning and 80-90 back to back pulls
    10-14.5deg timing curve
    19psi midrange, 18-18.5psi at 6k rpm, down to about 16psi at redline
    Misfires

    Today, the car has the following:
    471whp (19whp peak less than above)
    100% STOCK catback
    Big Tom FMIC
    Pump 94 gas
    80/20 meth
    Single CM10 nozzle (650ml/min flow tested to a bottle)
    18-19psi midrange, 20psi at 6krpm, 16.5psi at redline
    5deg to 10.5deg timing
    Cobb RB pump+meth map made with Aquamist HFS-3 dual 1mm nozzle kit

    Click here to enlarge

    Man, I really wonder what that AE catback was adding back then Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 02-19-2012 at 01:13 AM.

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    PS. Why is my company name on your dyno charts??
    lol well can't fix it now as timeout is done...i sent you drf files to have a look at, you put the charts into jpegs so i reused them Click here to enlarge no worries ehehhe

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno Click here to enlarge
    lol well can't fix it now as timeout is done...i sent you drf files to have a look at, you put the charts into jpegs so i reused them Click here to enlarge no worries ehehhe
    Oh that's right LOL, forgot about that. Click here to enlarge Well I am happy to take credit but I didn't do anything on the tuning end but open your DRF files and view them. Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Oh that's right LOL, forgot about that. Click here to enlarge Well I am happy to take credit but I didn't do anything on the tuning end but open your DRF files and view them. Click here to enlarge
    lol well, its an example of n54 utopia...bms logo at the top, cobb dynos below lol

  18. #43
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    lol yeah but without the BMS oil catch can and meth gauge integration I'm sure you'd be making a lot less power. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    lol yeah but without the BMS oil catch can and meth gauge integration I'm sure you'd be making a lot less power. Click here to enlarge
    lol meth gauge and O-C-C ftmfw!

  20. #45
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    AE catback is a quality piece. You can simulate it easily by just dropping the stock exhaust. The whp difference due to the stock catback restriction you are quessing should be close.

  21. #46
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    500 on pump/meth is the magic number for me. That's a great goal and I think you and cobb will get it.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  22. #47
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    AE catback is a quality piece. You can simulate it easily by just dropping the stock exhaust. The whp difference due to the stock catback restriction you are quessing should be close.
    You know I know the dude who owns AE Performance? Almost attended his super bowl party until I heard it was mostly dudes attending.

  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by scottp999 Click here to enlarge
    500 on pump/meth is the magic number for me. That's a great goal and I think you and cobb will get it.
    Had I been on a generous dyno where FBO cars dyno 300-310whp, making stock turbo FBO+meth runs reach 440+whp, this would've been there already...that's one thing to keep in mind too I guess...this car FBO with the AE catless exhaust on this dyno made 282whp max, stock it made 260whp, so its not one of the "generous" dynos but I like that better

  24. #49
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I'm thinking/hoping the options will lay themselves out nicely on pump and meth: Upgraded twins 500whp, single turbo upgrade stage 1 600 whp, stage 2, 700, and a stage 3 somewhere higher. That would provide so many great options to mate up owners to the goals and budgets they have for their cars.

    Thanks again for all of your work testing the alpha releases.
    Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, Procede Fueling Flash (via OpenFlash Tablet), PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

  25. #50
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    I'm confused, didnt you say your car was running 20-21psi to redline?

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